oil recommendation for 1994 F150

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: QuadDriver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
They are very forgiving engines, and both of mine make WAY more power than yours does. One of them easily 2x. And with higher mileage.

But with a rather low specific power output, it is still very easy service.



This is a curious reply you gave him, his 94 5.0 F150 made 205hp, 275 T, your 82 capri made 138hp if standard, 157 if the mercury 'gt' and 270T, the town car made 150hp (160 if dual exhaust) and 270T.

and his truck had an axle ratio availability that you cannot get - he most likely has the 3.55 but could have the 373 or 410 (Id have to look on that)

So Im not sure the issue you have with his specific output. (most people dont know this, but unless you got a cobra, the heads used were all E7TEs, the lower intake the same and the cam grind nearly the same.


LOL!

My '82 Capri has an engine from my (RIP) '87 Mustang GT in it. I can't believe you assumed it would be stock? Or that I would be retarded enough to think that something with E7's would make 400HP? Naw, the only reason I mentioned the specs of the Lincoln was because he asked!

Regarding the Capri:

-The heads are GT40's ported by Cobra Racing in Toronto, fitted with 1.94/1.60 valves and are O-ringed for the Felpro "lock-wire" gaskets.

-Camshaft is a custom grind from Jay Allen from Camshaft Innovations out of Michigan.

-Rockers are Crane Cobra 1.7's acting on a set of K-Motion K800 valve springs (500lbs).

-Intake is currently a Weiand X-Celerator fitted with a Holley HP-750. Was originally rocking a TFS-R with 30lb injectors when the car was EFI.

-Ignition was a Crane HI-6, but will be getting an MSD Digital 7 setup before it runs again.

Car is in the midst of a Cobra IRS swap at the moment and Cobra brakes w/hydroboost.

EFI in the Mustang, the engine made 325HP with a TFS "stage 1" cam and no tune.

That was the engine I was speaking of that makes easily 2x what his high miler E7-headed girl makes.

BTW, the Lincoln has 3.27's, but I have a set of 3.73's in the basement for it. Capri will be getting 4.10's. I sold the factory 3.27's out of it to a buddy of mine, who needed them for his '82 Capri, which has a 534RWHP supercharged 302 in it.

There was no "issue" with his specific output. Just letting him know I run the oil I recommend in something that spins higher, and makes way more power than what he'll be running it in. That was all I was hoping to get across.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: QuadDriver
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Execut1ve
very persuasive

I can't argue with that. what exactly did you do with your lincoln?


A fresh set of milled E7's with new valves and springs, Cobra 1.7 ratio roller rockers, FMS "E" camshaft, Explorer intake, Lightning EGR spacer, 65mm throttle body, FMS double-roller timing set, MSD 6A box, MAF conversion with Mustang A9P ECM and C&L 76mm MAF, Lincoln Mark VIII electric fan conversion, pollution pump delete, true duals (still have stock manifolds right now though, haven't put headers on it yet) w/H-pipe into flowmasters, 3G alternator upgrade....etc. Also did full suspension with PI rear sway-bar, poly bushings, Monroe PI shocks and springs and sat her on 17x9" Cobra R's.

Stock shortblock is untouched. Cam bearings looked like new when I swapped the cam out. Lifter valley wasn't as clean as I hoped it would be. Mustang engine (now in the Capri) was spotless. You could have eaten out of it.


I didnt see the phrases "hi pressure fuel pump", "24lb injectors" and recalibrated MAF in there.

that is what you need to climb above 240hp in the 302 using only milled E7 heads and the E303 Cam. You need to seriously remove metal from an E7 to get it to flow anywhere near a GT40 or P head. Forget about X heads or Z heads. since he has 205hp, 410hp is MAYBE doable in a 302, but it would have Z heads, X303 cam (or special grind) and cobra intakes or better and 30lb injectors.


It has 19's on it for now, and a 190lp/h Walboro fuel pump. But this wasn't the car, or engine I was referencing. The only reason I used the cam was that it was free. I was originally going to use an HO camshaft. It won't need 24's with the heads that are on it. It doesn't make enough power.

The heads that are on won't flow much, if any better than his do. And if they do, it is only because of the valve job. But the engine will have more compression (yay), because the pistons are slightly above 0-deck and the heads have been milled. They are also completely flat-tops with no valve reliefs.

The "best" intake from the stock line-up is the Explorer one. That's why it is on there. The E7 intake is garbage. The Mustang upper being slightly better than the lopo upper.

The cam is junk. Those grinds are 20 years old. But I couldn't justify paying Jay for a custom to run with a set of E7's. I'm sure you'll agree that's rather logical. I couldn't find the stock HO cam I pulled out of the Mustang engine years ago, the E cam was free, so as I said, that's why it is in there. Not because I wanted it there.

The rockers add some lift. They were "supposed" to be good for 15HP according to magazine testing. If you put much, if any faith in that stuff. I really don't. Same goes for the intake.

The intake has a 65mm opening, hence the 65mm TB.

The stock HO made 225HP. This engine is probably around 250-260 (flywheel). But she's never been on a dyno so those numbers are far from "factual". Just a guess.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Execut1ve
I'm pretty sure it's a flat tappet. I hadn't planned to get hard core into engine work, that stuff can get pricey

I've been hoping to keep the mods restricted to stuff that will mostly pay for itself in fuel savings over a reasonable amount of time.

I actually had no auto repair experience prior to the truck, which I got in August. You think that upper engine work would enhance my fuel econ any? BTW I meant the air intake, not the upper intake manifold. Although the upper intake manifold could stand a good cleaning. I've been debating some of the short ram air intakes like K&N, airraid or AFE. Not sure if they give any real benefits or just hype though


Leave the factory intake tract alone. They are a decent unit.


BTW, just to make this clear to QuadDriver (you don't seem to be bothered by my replies):

My responses in this thread should be taken as upbeat and with a touch of excitement. We don't get a lot of Windsor talk on this board, and they are my favorite engine. My comments and observations, as well as references to my own projects are for the sake of example and experience as to the luck I've had with my own little Windsors. I think the conversation has been upbeat and productive for the most part, and I think we should keep it that way.

The 302 is a fantastic engine.

 

[Execut1ve]

I appreciate the performance enthusiasm overkill

just keep in mind that hp and torque numbers don't mean much to me here, I'm just trying to improve my fuel econ and engine life. I recognize that sometimes performance mods can also enhance fuel econ depending on driving style, so that's sort of what I'm after

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Execut1ve
I appreciate the performance enthusiasm overkill

just keep in mind that hp and torque numbers don't mean much to me here, I'm just trying to improve my fuel econ and engine life. I recognize that sometimes performance mods can also enhance fuel econ depending on driving style, so that's sort of what I'm after



Make sure you have a clean air filter.

Change your fuel filter.

Change your PCV valve.

Plugs and wires. Cap and rotor. I recommend Motorcraft for all of these parts.

Good maintenance is your best friend here. The only performance mod I can think of that might help your mileage out is the addition of roller rockers. It reduces frictional loss, and frees up a tiny bit of power. You'd have to use the pedestal style. Pre-load will have to be checked and they may have to be shimmed. Or you might be lucky and they will just bolt-on without needing shims. Either way, this may be an expense that you don't want to bother getting into.

I do however suggest pulling the valve covers and changing the gaskets. Order a set for a 97-01 5.0L Explorer. They are rubber (not cork) and will outlast the rest of the truck.

As you surmised, the rear main is a PITA to do. I had to do one on my old Mustang. Not a fun job. I took the opportunity to do the clutch at the same time.

I would also check and make sure that the rear main or pan are actually leaking. They are known for leaking at the intake seals. If it is leaking at the rear lower intake, it will come down between (and beside) the bellhousing and may appear to be coming from the rear main or the oil pan. Take a look back there and see if it is wet. This is also likely if the PCV system has been poorly maintained, as excessive crankcase pressure can push that seal out and create a leak.

Don't want you putting expensive oil in there just to have it leak out all over the place

 

[Execut1ve]

yeah the plan is to get the leaks fixed then worry about oil. air filter, fuel filter and PCV valve are check check and check. I outlined a couple mods I was considering above, maybe an e-fan and a free flowing exhaust -- traditionally considered performance mods. I guess you mean the lower intake manifold gasket, what is involved in changing that?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Execut1ve
yeah the plan is to get the leaks fixed then worry about oil. air filter, fuel filter and PCV valve are check check and check. I outlined a couple mods I was considering above, maybe an e-fan and a free flowing exhaust -- traditionally considered performance mods. I guess you mean the lower intake manifold gasket, what is involved in changing that?


Removing the intake unfortunately.

Yes, the exhaust will wake it up a little. IIRC, duals are a bit of a bugger to do on that truck. Use an H-pipe if you can.

Electric fan is a great upgrade. Both my cars have one. SHO fan on the Capri, Mark VIII on the Lincoln. I suggest the Mark VIII fan for your application and a DCC controller. It is pretty much mandatory to do the 130A 3G conversion if you are going this route however due to the added power requirements.

 

[Execut1ve]

I've already had the upper intake manifold off once while I was fiddling with the vacuum lines, didn't get down to the lower though. Yeah I figured it was going to take an alternator upgrade, this one is nearing the end of its life anyway if the squeaking is any indication. I'll spend some time rooting around under the hood to track down the source of that leak

 

[Execut1ve]

I wonder what the interaction is between e-fan and underdrive pulleys? I imagine the alt could be underdriven as long as it was upgraded right? or not

 

[QuadDriver]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
BTW, just to make this clear to QuadDriver (you don't seem to be bothered by my replies):


I have no issues, I just questioned what I perceived raggin on his truck when your sig indicated 2 plain motors.

Back to the last post....the rear of the intake can leak, BUT, this also manifests itself as a lot of oil down the bell, on the top and sides of the tranny, dripping off the pan rails. If you have this condition it will stand out a lot.

As for improving the mileage - 21 years of these trucks tells me there is essentially nothing you can do but slow down. In the 90's as I modded my 90 and others I tried every trick, some worked, some did not, but the greatest impediment is the 65mph speed limit. When it was 55 and you snuck by with 60-62, the truck could get 19 fairly regularly (was EPA'd at 17), 21 a few times when I drafted big trucks.

the problem is, its still a small barn going down the road.

You can get by with mebbe 20hp worth of mods within the spoce of the stock speed density EFI. Your year might be MAF, I need to lookitup (or you can just look for a MAF sensor between the airbox and the TB) Unless you have access to a 'tweecer' the s/d system will ignore most major mods.

We found that on all systems, a K&N was worth 3%hp and no more on the 5.0 engine family. The open filter is actually worse than the cool air induction the truck has. however, you can saw off the silencer where the intake plastic enters the lower half of the air box.

the 'rectangular' intake ports are fine and you want to absolutely do NO work on the upper, any shavings or cleaning beads in it, will remain until the engine sucks them in.

you want to bring the ign system up to snuff, and move the TFI off the engine (yours is the first year they did this, do you have the black or grey tfi?) I have tried ugroove plugs, splitfires etc - simple AP25s worked best, the best bet is get wire#8 away from #7, use 8mm or better wires (accell 8.8, FMS 9's), the access cap/rotor and coil. If you go for motorsport(JBA) stainless headers, use boot sleeves on the wires, goto a higher flow cat and a decent cat back exhaust.

the e303 cam is a drop in once you are mass air and roller rockers will find 5hp. 1.6 ratio is all you need, but if you feel like 1.7, do this on the intake only - really no benefit on the exhaust. some people do grind up E7s to make a poor mans gt40, but the gt40p heads are better with the lifts and driving you will do.

the bigest problem you are gonna face is cancer. if the rear spring hangers are starting to go, look at the frame under the rear bumper mounts. I advertise a fix/patch for that but once it gets in there you can bet its also going under the motor cross member and near where the track arms meet.

 

[Execut1ve]

mine is MAF

I don't have oil on top or on the sides of the tranny, I know that for sure. I've heard both good and bad about the K&N; at any rate I'm not convinced it'll come close to paying for itself over any length of time. I hadn't planned on doing anything to the upper intake except a good cleaning, it has a lot of black crud in there that I couldn't get out when I cleaned the throttle body. idk what tfi means so I can't answer that for you.

I do plan an ignition upgrade including new cap & rotor, coil, wires and plugs. I will be going with performance grade coil, cap & rotor and wires. The plan is to increase the spark plug gap to .060 and bump timing to 16 deg BTDC. I hear about 2 mpg can be had easily in that way.

I have thought about headers, but from what I've read it seems they grant more high end power at the expense of low end torque, which seems to be the opposite of what I'd want in the name of fuel econ. but at any rate a more free flowing exhaust is on the list. Same goes for cams, I have read that the stock is pretty good as far as low end torque (and fuel econ) so I'm leery of doing anything there. Not to mention cams can get pricey

I definitely have rust enough to go around. The worst is the front suspension; the coil spring pockets are a joke. I'd like to take apart the front end and take the bed off then attack the rust with a wire brush and paint over it with some POR-15 or some other quality anti rust paint. But being up in OH, rust comes with the territory

 

[QuadDriver]

Originally Posted By: Execut1ve
mine is MAF

I don't have oil on top or on the sides of the tranny, I know that for sure. I've heard both good and bad about the K&N; at any rate I'm not convinced it'll come close to paying for itself over any length of time. I hadn't planned on doing anything to the upper intake except a good cleaning, it has a lot of black crud in there that I couldn't get out when I cleaned the throttle body. idk what tfi means so I can't answer that for you.

I do plan an ignition upgrade including new cap & rotor, coil, wires and plugs. I will be going with performance grade coil, cap & rotor and wires. The plan is to increase the spark plug gap to .060 and bump timing to 16 deg BTDC. I hear about 2 mpg can be had easily in that way.

I have thought about headers, but from what I've read it seems they grant more high end power at the expense of low end torque, which seems to be the opposite of what I'd want in the name of fuel econ. but at any rate a more free flowing exhaust is on the list. Same goes for cams, I have read that the stock is pretty good as far as low end torque (and fuel econ) so I'm leery of doing anything there. Not to mention cams can get pricey

I definitely have rust enough to go around. The worst is the front suspension; the coil spring pockets are a joke. I'd like to take apart the front end and take the bed off then attack the rust with a wire brush and paint over it with some POR-15 or some other quality anti rust paint. But being up in OH, rust comes with the territory

I would not increase the ign timing on a TFI motor - the overall advance is set by the ECM and is graded by the knock sensor the TFI - (thin film inductive)is what picks up the timing signal and sends the spark to the coil based on tuning from the ecm. since there is no crank sensor or cam sensor the ecm never knows EXACTLY where the pistons are so the initial timing set (also used for the inevitable limp home) is able to be fooled. after my 21 years of testing I can state that there no good benefit, but a heckuvalot of destruction if you have any incipent knock which the EECIV 5.0 has anyways. just move it off the engine (there are schematics to do this over at ford-trucks) and shield the 'pip' wire.

since you are MAF, find out if it is bank firing maf or SFI maf. bank firing is another handicap - 6 injectors are always mis-timed. even the truck SFI maf kit leaves 4 injectors mistimed cuz of th 1-3-7 vs 1-5-4 order mismatch. if you are SFI, match the injector wires in the ECM harness to the firing order - it dont get no better than that.

 

[Execut1ve]

my firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 according to Chiltons. It also lists my engine as MFI according to the VIN. I may be mixing up my acronyms (too many of the form *FI) but I thought the '94 5.0L was EFI?

 

[QuadDriver]

Originally Posted By: Execut1ve
my firing order is 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 according to Chiltons. It also lists my engine as MFI according to the VIN. I may be mixing up my acronyms (too many of the form *FI) but I thought the '94 5.0L was EFI?


if you truly do have 1-3-7 then you have teh GT cam (and roller I bet!) and the 351HO firing order which is good. any chance this truck is a cali truck? you keep naming items on a 94 that came about in cali first, 95 IIRC was the first 50 state MAF 5.0, yet yours has maf...

they used to call them EFI, but fine tuned it to 'MFI' later to mean multiport, i.e. more than one injector and the central injector became CFI. then when sequential squirting was added to the mix you see 'sfi' terms.

not to advertise other sites, but look at ford-trucks dot com. join for free. Its all about....ford trucks and we post the most helpful sh...stuff you can find...

 

[Execut1ve]

I'm already a member over at f150forum.com, I have had a good experience there. I don't know where the truck originally came from, but it's been in OH (or at least the north) long enough to get that healthy coat of rust. My Chilton's manual makes the distinction in firing order between 1994 and later 5.0L engines (1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8) and 1993 and earlier 5.0L engines (1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8). where they get that and whether it is true I could not even guess.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Execut1ve
I'm already a member over at f150forum.com, I have had a good experience there. I don't know where the truck originally came from, but it's been in OH (or at least the north) long enough to get that healthy coat of rust. My Chilton's manual makes the distinction in firing order between 1994 and later 5.0L engines (1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8) and 1993 and earlier 5.0L engines (1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8). where they get that and whether it is true I could not even guess.


The 351/HO firing order was first used in 1985 on the 302 IIRC. That is when the 302 went roller in the passenger cars. Trucks came MUCH later.

There are essentially three variants of the 302 available during this time after they went EFI in 1986:

1. HO: E6 heads for 1986. The truck parts bin was raided for the E7TE heads for 87-95. This engine has the 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 firing order and a revised upper intake which is "slightly" better, and has a larger throttle body opening. It has a roller camshaft (with an aggressive for the time profile)which was tweaked slightly at the end of 1988 to make the engine smoother. These engines featured SEFI injection with eight individual injector drivers in the ECM, and fuel was provided through 19lb/hr injectors. They also had a double-roller timing set and a 60mm throttle body. It had forged rods and TRW forged pistons with a small dish in the centre from 87+. In late 1992, they changed to hypereutectic pistons. The Mustang was Speed Density up through 1988 (except California, which went MAF in 1988) and went MAF for 1989. This engine was fitted in the Mustang GT and LX, as well as the Lincoln Mark VII, a slight variation of this engine was fitted into the 5.0L Thunderbird and the Mercury Cougar.

2. SO (standard output, often affectionately called the "lopo"): This engine wore the E6 heads from 86+. Was also fitted with SEFI, but retained the old 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order, and a MUCH milder roller camshaft (we like to call them the "broomstick"). The upper intake had a smaller opening, and they had a 55mm throttle body. Some managed to get double-roller chains from the factory, others got a single setup with nylon gears. These engines had 14lb/hr injectors. This engine is best known for being found in the Panther cars: Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car and Crown Victoria.

3. Truck: This is the predecessor to the engine in yours. It was essentially a lopo with a flat-tappet camshaft, but the better E7TE cylinder heads, and a much better intake (the lower from this intake was the inspiration for the Holley Systemax II intake). These engines had bank-fire injection. As QuadDriver mentioned, somewhere around 1994 (perhaps earlier in California?), these engines went roller, and the power output increased. They were also fitted with Mass Air.

There are two others worth mentioning:

-The 5.0L from the Cobra, which came with a milder cam, 1.7 roller rockers, GT40 heads, and "Cobra" intake w/65mm TB.

-The 5.0L from the 1996-2001 Explorer. 1996-1997 came with the GT40 heads, roller camshaft (mild), and a GT-40/Cobra style intake (the GT40, Explorer and Cobra intake share the same lower). Late 1997-2001 came with the GT40P heads. These have a smaller exhaust valve and relocated spark plug. This engine also has coil-on-plug, not TFI.

If you want to learn about building and modding, a very good site for performance stuff is sbftech.com.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: QuadDriver

I would not increase the ign timing on a TFI motor - the overall advance is set by the ECM and is graded by the knock sensor the TFI - (thin film inductive)is what picks up the timing signal and sends the spark to the coil based on tuning from the ecm. since there is no crank sensor or cam sensor the ecm never knows EXACTLY where the pistons are so the initial timing set (also used for the inevitable limp home) is able to be fooled. after my 21 years of testing I can state that there no good benefit, but a heckuvalot of destruction if you have any incipent knock which the EECIV 5.0 has anyways. just move it off the engine (there are schematics to do this over at ford-trucks) and shield the 'pip' wire.

since you are MAF, find out if it is bank firing maf or SFI maf. bank firing is another handicap - 6 injectors are always mis-timed. even the truck SFI maf kit leaves 4 injectors mistimed cuz of th 1-3-7 vs 1-5-4 order mismatch. if you are SFI, match the injector wires in the ECM harness to the firing order - it dont get no better than that.


Do you know what always weirded me out? That the truck, with its antique injection setup, got a knock sensor, and the cars with SEFI didn't.

Bumping the timing up on the HO-engined cars and running higher octane has always been "something you just do".

 

[Execut1ve]

I would stick to running reg gas, I would not be running higher octane if I bumped the timing. Yeah I love that knock sensor, it's throwing a trouble code so either it'll need to be replaced or there's something wrong with the wiring harness

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Execut1ve
I would stick to running reg gas, I would not be running higher octane if I bumped the timing. Yeah I love that knock sensor, it's throwing a trouble code so either it'll need to be replaced or there's something wrong with the wiring harness


I would just leave the timing alone then. Normally if you increase it, you have to run higher octane to prevent it from pinging. And if it is triggering the knock-sensor, you are losing power.

 

[Execut1ve]

it isn't triggering the knock sensor. the code I'm getting is that the knock sensor itself isn't functioning correctly, probably due to either a bad sensor or a problem in the wiring harness. I suspect the latter as I had an exhaust leak in the air injection pipe and the hot gasses partially melted the wiring harness where it passes nearby. Pinging is the main concern for advancing the timing, I may not be able to get all the way to 16 deg BTDC but might settle for 14 or 15.