Oil for Commodore LS1

[QldKev]

I thought an LS1 motor would have been covered many times, but the search return zero results for 'LS1', maybe my search skills need optimising. I have a Holden Commodore with the LS1 engine. I have the standard mods, exhaust, OTRCAI, mafless tune etc. Just trying to work out if I should swap to a different grade oil.

The manual says SF or SG multigrade oil. It doesn't state viscosity as it refers to attached chart, which I cannot find.

From http://sikls1.v8owners.com.au/index39.html, For optimum fuel economy, use 110W/30 SJ GF2 engine oil, if this oil unavailable, use SG,SH or SJ grade engine oil with viscosity of 20W/50
*I assume the 110W/30 should say 10W/30

I live in Queensland, Australia so the climate is pretty warm and would never see below 0c. The car may be left for a few days at a time, but when it is started it is a 20min drive to town. It's vary rare for the car to see a real long trip. It has 140,000km on it. Suffers the normal LS1 piston slap for a few secs when cold started, and does use some oil between changes. It never gets used at the drags or track, but does get some WOT boy racer work. I tend to do 10,000km oil changes.

From http://www.ls1.com.au/ recommendation I have been running Castrol Edge 10W60 for the past few years. I have been worried it's a bit heavy of an oil for daily duties. I'm thinking of changing to Castrol Edge 5w40, as it is still fully synthetic, a lighter weight for the starts and closer to the factory spec oil. I don't like chopping and changing oils all the time.

Is my idea a good one?

 

[supercity]

Welcome to BITOG!

I would not recommend 10w60, although it would be better than 20w50! If you want a lighter grade Edge 0w40 A3/B4 is the one to use. It is Castrol's premium product.

 

[andyd]

I would go with a good 10w30, if it uses more oil than you like, go to a heavier oil. 20w50 may help the piston slap. This is an old fashion SBC overhead valve engine isn't it? With crummy pistons too.

 

[strat81]

My Buick had an LS-based engine, the GenIII 5.3L. It ran the smoothest and had the least piston slap with xW-40 oils. I used Mobil 1 0W-40 and Valvoline Maxlife SB 10W-40. Neither had a measurable effect on fuel economy and the engine ran fine.

Mobil touts 0W-40 with the Corvette:
http://www.mobil1.lt/galery/_mobil1/autosportas/corvette_mobil1.pdf

 

[aquariuscsm]

I`d pick your fave 20W50.

 

[Shannow]

I'd try an experiment first, before deciding on which 40 grade that you want to use (and I think a 40 is definitley better for you than the 60).

Go to Supercheap, or preferred supplier and grab some Magnatec (yeah, I know)...either the regular 10W40, or IMO the two better options, the diesel 15W40 (dino/semi synth), or the diesel 5W40 (more semi synth/synth)...both the diesel options have current petrol engine ratings, so are fine in a Commie...

I think you should see how the slap goes with the Magnatec "UMA" (Unique Molecular Atractant), which while it sounds like a corny advertising blurb, does have some benefits.

If the UMA cuts down on morning noise, then either stick with the 5W40 diesel, or find a Castrol agent who sells the Magnatec SP 5W40 (only availble in 20Ls, for less than $200)...it's synthetic, more cost effective than the edge...and it's green.

 

[Triton_330]

You could use M1 0w-40, but as ODD as this might sound, I would go with a 5w-50 - you know, the one spec'd for the Ford GT500. With that, a 5w-50, you're meeting halfway between what you're using now - the Castrol 10w-60 - and the other 40 grades you were looking at, as well as others suggested. I know it sounds odd to use a Ford spec for a LS1, but I really think it would do great, IMHO.

 

[Fraser434]

Mobil1 0w40 is used quite often in stock block LS engines, oil analysis results have looked good.

 

[supercity]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I'd try an experiment first, before deciding on which 40 grade that you want to use (and I think a 40 is definitley better for you than the 60).

Go to Supercheap, or preferred supplier and grab some Magnatec (yeah, I know)...either the regular 10W40, or IMO the two better options, the diesel 15W40 (dino/semi synth), or the diesel 5W40 (more semi synth/synth)...both the diesel options have current petrol engine ratings, so are fine in a Commie...

I think you should see how the slap goes with the Magnatec "UMA" (Unique Molecular Atractant), which while it sounds like a corny advertising blurb, does have some benefits.

If the UMA cuts down on morning noise, then either stick with the 5W40 diesel, or find a Castrol agent who sells the Magnatec SP 5W40 (only availble in 20Ls, for less than $200)...it's synthetic, more cost effective than the edge...and it's green.


Why Mag 15w40 over 10w40? They carry the same specs.

There is also a "heavy 30" option, Magnatec stop start 10w30, also a A3/B4.

I don't believe SP exists anymore. The current products are Mag Pro C3 5w40 and Mag Pro 5w40 (A3/B4). Mag Diesel 5w40 is priced very well against the others, full syn, a better product that Edge 5w40 in my book. C3 is a hard sell to a lot of people though.

 

[Shannow]

The 15W40 being a dino/syn blend will have less VII than the 10W40...for the sakes of the test.

Good call on the rest 'though supercity... the 5W40 diesel is a great price considering the alternatives

 

[Testoprop]

Hey bro castrol edge full synthetic is on sale at repco at 45 percent off perfect for your car also super cheap has 20 percent off store wide so grab your filter there

 

[Ducman]

Originally Posted By: QldKev
I thought an LS1 motor would have been covered many times, but the search return zero results for 'LS1', maybe my search skills need optimising. I have a Holden Commodore with the LS1 engine. I have the standard mods, exhaust, OTRCAI, mafless tune etc. Just trying to work out if I should swap to a different grade oil.

The manual says SF or SG multigrade oil. It doesn't state viscosity as it refers to attached chart, which I cannot find.

From http://sikls1.v8owners.com.au/index39.html, For optimum fuel economy, use 110W/30 SJ GF2 engine oil, if this oil unavailable, use SG,SH or SJ grade engine oil with viscosity of 20W/50
*I assume the 110W/30 should say 10W/30

I live in Queensland, Australia so the climate is pretty warm and would never see below 0c. The car may be left for a few days at a time, but when it is started it is a 20min drive to town. It's vary rare for the car to see a real long trip. It has 140,000km on it. Suffers the normal LS1 piston slap for a few secs when cold started, and does use some oil between changes. It never gets used at the drags or track, but does get some WOT boy racer work. I tend to do 10,000km oil changes.

From http://www.ls1.com.au/ recommendation I have been running Castrol Edge 10W60 for the past few years. I have been worried it's a bit heavy of an oil for daily duties. I'm thinking of changing to Castrol Edge 5w40, as it is still fully synthetic, a lighter weight for the starts and closer to the factory spec oil. I don't like chopping and changing oils all the time.

Is my idea a good one?



You're idea has merit.
Especially if you can find something that works for you in your application as you've outlined.
That way it's easy to settle on it going forward, without having to think about it any further.

I think you'll find the manual should've said Mobil 1 10w -30, instead of 1 10w-30.

I have an LS 2 in my 2006 HSV, and my owners manual states Mobil 1 10w-30.
I use an equivalent oil in another brand in mine.

10w-30 is a bit hard to get these days since GM universally back Spec'd 5w-30 for our engines just before the emergence of the dexos spec.
Now Mobil 1 only comes in 5w-30 grade as a result.

I would certainly have a look at Shannow's recommendations.
Especially the 15w-40 grade, in that it may help with the start up noise if you're concerned about it.

In looking out for the more main stream brands available to us here in OZ.
Penrite's racing 10 may appeal to you, as it comes in 10W-40 grade.
Penrite also have a semi synthetic oil called Everyday Plus 5W-40 which you may prefer for something that pumps a little quicker in the cold weather.
You can get the Penrite oil anywhere that's mainstream.

I'm uncertain of going too much thicker with the modern LS engines, because the bearing tolerances and the engine design are more suited to an xw-30 grade oil.

Are you looking for something that's more economical and readily available through Repco or Supercheap ?
Or are you open to other brands that are more exotic ?

 

[Clevy]

Aren't LS engines here calling for 30 grade oils?
My 99 5.3 z71 has 275k on the odo using 5w-30 grades and runs like a dream.
I'm using a mix of 5w-20/5w-40 in my 2001 6.0. It's got 210k now and purrs.

I'd follow shannow's advice. I think he's got experience as far as engine and climate is concerned.

 

[QldKev]

Thanks for all the ideas. I ended up grabbing the Edge 5w-40 from Repco with the discount special. Full syn down from $75 to $40 looked pretty good, and I grabbed a few spare 5L bottles for the wifes zre corolla and son's ae corolla. Once we are out of this I will try the Magnetec in the commodore. I've actually been using the Magnetec 10w-40 in the zre corolla till now. Hopefully by then I should have an oil sorted out for the next few years. Fingers crossed all 3 cars will be happy with the outcome.

 

[neo3]

Originally Posted By: Ducman

I'm uncertain of going too much thicker with the modern LS engines, because the bearing tolerances and the engine design are more suited to an xw-30 grade oil.


I've heard this before, but it seems to be more of an internet meme than based on any real facts. Example:

LS1 bearing clearances:
connecting rod 0.015 - 0.063 mm (avg .039)
main 0.018 - 0.054 mm (avg .036)

BMW S65 bearing clearances:
connecting rod 0.0305 - 0.0470 mm (avg .03875)
main 0.0291 - 0.0458 mm (avg .03745)

So the LS1 has wider variance, but the average values are about the same between the two engines. Yet from what I read on here, the BMW engine is spec'd for "thicker" oil than xW30.
Myself, I'm planning on going to a 5W40 oil in my LS1 car even though the manual calls for 5W30. (I'm in Arizona, so not much of a problem with "cold" startup. Also, the car is many years out of warranty.)

 

[capn233]

Yes, at least for the LS1's in the United States, the manual typically called for 5W-30 with 10W-30 as an acceptable alternative if temps were above 0 degrees F.

The owner's manual for my Formula even has this neat line: "Do not use other viscosity oils such as 20W-50." But recommendations might have been different in Australia for whatever reason.

Oh and regarding Mobil 1 and their claim about 0W-40 in the Corvette, IIRC this became GM's recommend spec for the export Corvettes predominately because it was difficult for the European customers to find 5W-30. There was a thread about that on corvetteforum a while ago.

Anyway, I have used 5W-30 in my LS1 since I have had it, although it is only a baby in mileage compared to some here at ~92,000 mi. I have reflected on 0W-40 occasionally, but I figured it didn't make enough sense for my driving pattern. If I was going to road race it regularly, that would be different (and would probably call for an oil cooler... and a transmission swap ).

 

[QldKev]

Getting off topic a bit but on the next oil change would half 10w-60 and half 5w-40 be ok? I have got approx 4L of 10w-60 left to use up, or should I not mix these oils.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: capn233
Oh and regarding Mobil 1 and their claim about 0W-40 in the Corvette, IIRC this became GM's recommend spec for the export Corvettes predominately because it was difficult for the European customers to find 5W-30. There was a thread about that on corvetteforum a while ago.


M1 0W-40's HTHSV is the same as, or only very slightly thicker than some of the 5W-30s out there.
Plus, one gets the benefits of; a relatively high VI (

), decent moly and ZDDP levels, and a high starting TBN, over most (if not all) of the 'on the shelf' 5W-30s.

 

[Ducman]

Originally Posted By: neo3
Originally Posted By: Ducman

I'm uncertain of going too much thicker with the modern LS engines, because the bearing tolerances and the engine design are more suited to an xw-30 grade oil.


I've heard this before, but it seems to be more of an internet meme than based on any real facts. Example:

LS1 bearing clearances:
connecting rod 0.015 - 0.063 mm (avg .039)
main 0.018 - 0.054 mm (avg .036)

BMW S65 bearing clearances:
connecting rod 0.0305 - 0.0470 mm (avg .03875)
main 0.0291 - 0.0458 mm (avg .03745)

So the LS1 has wider variance, but the average values are about the same between the two engines. Yet from what I read on here, the BMW engine is spec'd for "thicker" oil than xW30.
Myself, I'm planning on going to a 5W40 oil in my LS1 car even though the manual calls for 5W30. (I'm in Arizona, so not much of a problem with "cold" startup. Also, the car is many years out of warranty.)








I'm pretty much in agreeance.

However I believe the GM engineers did actually design the modern LS engines around a xw-30 grade oil.

Consider the following.
The modern trend in engine designs, is heavily reliant upon the benefits of well formulated and thinner oils of high quality(preferably a synthetic of some description).
This will inevitably yield more power, and better fuel economy which are both necessities and goals for all the manufacturers.

In the case of the modern LS series GM engines, GM has done their durability testing on the thinner oils, and found them to be fine in service.

Modern valve trains are not dependant upon thicker oils for reliable service. Obviously this in itself enables the use of well formulated xw-30 grade oils.

The stock oil pump/lube system design is designed to be sufficient for the engine with oil pressure caped by the relief valve at around 50 psi or possibly a little less(when hot). Obviously this also improves economy and power development.
Oil pressure will not be improved upon by any oil that's unnecessarily thick.
Actually if an oil that's too thick is used, the oil system may not have sufficient total oil flow for the engine to be well protected if the pressure relief valve is open.

I note your comparison of critical engine clearances.
Note the minimum clearances.
I've done the same investigation myself in order to get to the bottom of the matter, and make sense of it my own mind.
Previously I also felt the thin oil requirement for LS series engines, may simply be an internet myth.
With reference to the factory clearance tolerances of the LS2 engines.
I flat out wouldn't like to be running any of the thicker oils in my engine, if I happen to draw the short straw if the clearances in my engine happen to be at the bottom of the tolerance range.
Only to potentially have insufficient oil flow, due to the oil being too thick.
Boundary lubrication is not my idea of an ideal scenario.

The oil filters are small, so if the oil is too thick there's also the possibility that the bypass valve in the filter will be opening unnecessarily when the oil is cold.
It may allow contaminates previously trapped in the oil filter, to flow back into the lube system.

Personally, the 10w-30 grade I have in my LS2 is the thinnest oil I have ever run in an engine in my life. So I would naturally tend to gravitate to a thicker oil if given the chance.
I choose to stick with the current oil, because GM has broadly back spec'd the 5w-30 grade from back when the GM 4718 M spec was on it's way out, and to ultimately be superseded by the dexos spec.
So I'm content to keep going the way I am, in the knowledge that GM considers the thin oil to be ok.
Especially in regards to very cold winter starts which we don't normally see where I currently live.
Also the manufacturer of the oil I use, recommends the 10w-30 grade for my climate and the 5w-30 oil for colder climates.

I note Driven Racing oils have an oil that's for LS series engines called LS30 in a 5w-30 grade, which is an mPAO synthetic base oil.

Like yourself, if I were to consider a thicker oil it would be a xw-40 grade.
But for the above reasons, i'm not totally convinced it's necessary.

Maybe if the engine was well warmed up, and I was intending to race the car?
Besides, there's not much difference(in real world operational terms) between a 0w-40 and a 5w-30 oil.
And I think there's likely to be more potential with the 5w-30 grade oil, to go with longer OCI's.

It's all food for thought.

 

[Triton_330]

Originally Posted By: QldKev

Getting off topic a bit but on the next oil change would half 10w-60 and half 5w-40 be ok? I have got approx 4L of 10w-60 left to use up, or should I not mix these oils.


If the oils have the same API rating, your golden, go ahead and mix.