Oil for a Honda XR400 air cooled 4 stroke.

[ddoran]

Hi, I see a lot of posts about oils for the bikes. Rotella 15W40, Rotella 5W40 Sin, Amsoil, Valoline, etc.

I also see a post from sunrun about his YZ250F however my XR 400 can run pretty hot. I see oil temps on my dipstick around 225 up to 245.

I am looking for suggestions from people with more knowledge and experience with this one.

1. Should I run 20-50W like it says or will 15-40 work or even 5-40? (Summer time)

2. What oils are you running and why?

3. I have some Castrol GTX 20-50 Semi available to use (4 quarts). Tell me if this is OK to run until I buy more, or don't use it.


Thanks
Dan

 

[wileyE]

OK IMO. The motor will wear out from something else (dust, water etc), you'll sell the bike, or something else will happen to it before the difference between one brand or type of oil will make a difference (assuming good maintenance). If your desert racing I'd go with the thicker oil in it, play bike or woods the 40w or 50w would be fine. I even used 10w30 many a times riding in the woods, even energy conserving 5w30 in an experiment trying on purpose to make the clutch slip. Bike ran great.

 

[RF Whatley]

Dan -
IMHO there are 2 things to remember about oil in motorcycles....

1) The useful life of any oil decreases with operating temperature. (Not the temp of the cylinder head, but the actual running temp of the oil.) So if your oil is really running that hot, you should be changing your oil fairly often. In fact, much more often than even the owner's handbook says.

IF you decide that (something like) 800 miles is a good oil change interval, then you MAY decide that expensive oil MAY not be required in order to get adequate protection.

2) It is important to stay away from "car" oils if your m/c has either a wet clutch or an electric starter. Your bike has both, I believe.


Adding these 2 items together, you can see that your choices are then narrowed to: full synthetics, SF/SG "motorcycle oils", or diesel oils. Of these choices, the diesel oils make the best financial decision, since the other 2 carry price penalties due to lower sales volumes.

So people are simply choosing to run 15W40 C-rated diesel oils, like Rotella, with frequent oil changes.


On a side note... your very hot oil could be the result of riding in circles at 10MPH with your 8yo son, and/or it could be the result of jetting changes which resulted from exhaust pipe changes, such as removing the spark arrestor "to make it sound better". If the later, you should know that these engines already run so lean that ANY changes to air filter or exhaust pipe could make it run even leaner and therefore dangerously hot.

Hope some of these ideas are useful.

 

[Cujet]

I have plenty of experience using M1 15-50 in air cooled Honda's. It is probably the best all around oil I can think of. And, it is available at Wally world.

I had nothing but problems until I switched to M1 15-50.

By the way, I am on my 40th dirt bike.

Chris

 

[ddoran]

Thanks for the info. IMO's

Question? What about an oil with a SM rating? Like Castrol GTX Semi Syn 20-50? Does this provide better protection then a SG, SH, SJ rating? What does the rating mean?

40th dirt bike, WOW that's awesome. What ones have been your favorite? (Mine was the IT175 and the RM250)

I just got back into riding after 20 years. I started riding when I was 10. Honda XR75, then I picked up a basket case XL100 and got it running, then a 72 Yamaha 125, 78 Kawasaki KD 175, 79 Yamaha IT175, 82 Honda CR125, 83 RM250. Then college started and I had to sell all of the toys (Motorcycle, Snowmobile, 4X4 Truck, Utility Trailer, Lawn Mowing Equipment, and 14ft Fishing Boat.)

Yes, we run in tight woods (Near West Branch Michigan). The carb & jetting has been changed and spark plug color looks good. If anything I set it to be a little on the rich side (just to prevent any lean conditions).

I have been changing the oil after just a few rides. Normally less than 400 miles of moderate to hard trail/woods riding. I am concerned because when I purchased this used bike it smoked on cold start up. I removed the head, cleaned off the carbon, replaced the valve guide seals (This was the main problem) but I also noticed the cam and rockers showed excessive wear so I had to replace them. I also honed and re-ringed the piston (because I had it down this far).


I just want to make sure the cam and rockers do not do this again. This is why I am looking for your opinions on what oils to use. I am thinking about purchasing Shell Rotella Synthetic 5-40 and want to be sure this is OK or should I go with the less expensive Rotella T 15-40.

I am concerned about the lower weight 40 vs. 50.


Thanks

[ June 30, 2006, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: ddoran ]

 

[tmorris1]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RF Whatley:
Dan -
2) It is important to stay away from "car" oils if your m/c has either a wet clutch or an electric starter. Your bike has both, I believe.

---

I don't disagree with you, but I can't see where an electric starter would matter, would it?

 

[sunruh]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RF Whatley:

2) It is important to stay away from "car" oils if your m/c has either a wet clutch or an electric starter. Your bike has both, I believe.

---

1) you are so wrong it's not even funny.

not only is it ok. in most cases, it has actually been proven to be BETTER than the so called "motorcycle specific" oils.
thanks for keeping this myth going.

2) the xr400 doesn't have electric start. it was last produced in 2004 and the microfische doesn't even show provisions for one. or a battery for that matter.

i would suggest on the cheap end SRT, ES20w50 and sae40, Valvoline VR1 20w50 or sae50. on the upper price end M1 15w50, RL or Ams.
cheap new oil beats expensive used oil every time.

 

[wileyE]

The top end wear probably has more to do with things like valve train design, dust injestion, running the valve clearance out of spec,rust pitting from storage etc, than the oil oil used. IF it was a lubrication issue I'd guess it may be from revving the motor hard after it first starts, or storing it with "used up oil" The xr uses a trick oil system with a couple diffent pump circuts in it. One pumps oil through the motor and the other circulates oil through the frame backbone resevour. Getting the oil out of the motor + the increased capacity it affords goes along way to keep the oil temps down (compared to other aircooled motors). The way the circut is plumbed I think it takes a moment for the top end to get oiled, at least on my xr's I've noticed some noise until the oil gets there. Using your every few rides OCI I think your good to go with any of the 40 or 50w's, SM, car, diesel, bike or other wise. If you choose diesel my FWIW is the 15w40's flavors have worked better for me than the higher priced 5w40's, just in terms of shift feel and deterioration of shift feel. If you talkin mineral vs syn then you have to ask is the oil temp high enough (proabaly not) to take adavantage of the slightly better high temp oxidation? If it is, you have to ask is the 20-30deg difference really going to make that much difference when I'm changing it out every few rides, probably not. But if it makes you sleep better knowing you have the percieved best oil in it, then it may be decent choice.

 

[babyhuey]

Air cooled xr's always run hot,but the 400 is still very reliable.Rocker and cam wear is the norm on these engines.I run synth 10/40 at extremely short intervals,due to swampy riding conditions.You will probably do as well with quality 20/50 petro,if you dont mind living with the wear and varnish.Still happens with synth,just not so much.Costs more to do it my way,but other than valve seals havent had a prob in a long time*I also ride like an old man!!}

 

[clutcher]

Ddoran,
I too have a XR400. I souped it up and ran into the same questions concerning oil. Out here in So Cal. I found next to Mobil 1 oils, Yamalube always works the best and is usually discounted at the local dealer. I always run their 10/40 in it and the bike has performed flawlessly. The oil temp is a constant 250. Other than a puff of blue smoke on start up, no mechanical failures whatsoever. My riding includes snow (same oils in the winter) as well as Cal City runs during the summer where the outside temp is 100+ degrees and the bike is ridened wide open throttle for 3 straight days. If you do a search for "XRsonly" there is a wealth of information there. One tip they gave me a couple of years ago was to remove the headlight assembly which increases airflow to the oil cooler mounted on the steering head. An auxillary oil cooler down the left side frame rail is very easy to plumb. Like it was said earlier these bikes wear like iron, just run quirk is the steering head bearings which need constant packing as the grease oozes out. For that I found synthetic high temp grease is the only way to go.

 

[Cujet]

FYI, M1 15W-50 has a fantastic additive package, topped only by M1 MX4t. Mobil makes some of the best commonly available air cooled engine oils, IMHO.

By the way, my XR valve train wear problems were eliminated by M1 15-50. Changing cams and 8 rockers gets expensive. So much so, that I purchased used good quality parts.

Chris

 

[Vstrom]

 

[resslera]

"It is important to stay away from car oils if you have a wet clutch" For cripes sake, I figured anyone who has researched this site would know better than to make a statement like that. Do a search of oil analysis done on Mobil 1 oils and you will not see much differences between the Mobil 1 motorcycle oils and the Mobil 1 15w50 "car" oil as you call it. There is a wealth of information on this site that will show that if you stick to the proper grade as recommended by your manual, you will be fine. That includes motorcycle specific oils, so called "car" oils, and universal oils like your 15w40/5w40 diesel oils. For the aircooled bikes I really liked the 15w40 diesel oils like Delo 400 15w40 or Rotella 15w40. Mobil1 15w50 is what I exclusively use in my XR650R.

Really, it is whatever makes your feel comfortable as long as you stick to the proper grade.