The perception is based on a reality the Chevrolet and Buick are different brands that target different age groups and price points. Because Buick is a luxury brand for GM, when examining equivalent vehicles for example, the Buick brand will have a more luxurious appointed interior and better ride versus the Chevrolet. Historically for GM, Chevrolet was an opening price point brand that offered good quality and styling at an affordable price. Moving up the product hierarchy is Buick followed by Cadillac the more luxury brands.
Oil Filter Parent Companies?
- Thread starter Robvette
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So sticking with that theory, in 1980 if you had the money you would pass up on a crappy Citation and go for the better Skylark?
No because I bought the Pontiac Phoenix of that era because it had a sportier look outside and a sportier interior.
There was also the Oldsmobile Omega that had a more conservative styling for an older age demographic to round out the X-Bodies. Keep in mind Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Buick brands existed for specific age demographics. The differentiators across the 4 were the body aesthetics and the interiors; engines and drivetrains were the same so no differentiation in performance. It was not a question of one being better than the other it was one of choice in the look of the car and the comfort and look of the interiors.
Were Plymouth and Mercury cars "real brands," when nearly everybody knew they were functionally identical to corresponding Dodge and Ford models, respectively? How 'bout Walmart-branded products that are identical to other name or store brands, except the name on the label.
Their factories and bottom lines also benifit (probably even more due to less engineering, R&D, testing and new manufacturing capitol expense) by making the same or very similar filters sold as different brands.
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No disrespect intended, but your confusing branding and differentiation - both are marketing techniques, and may or may not be used in conjunction.
Your "Brand" is your recognition or evoked set in the consumer world. People will buy a Amsoil oil filter and pay a lot of money for it, because Amsoil is a well known brand of oil, even though they don't make oil filters. Currently Fram makes their filters.
Similarly Fram is also a well known brand. They have a differentiated product offering -- Tough Guard, ultra synthetic, Endurance, etc. Fram is the brand and the differentiation is in the product offering - good, better, best or whatever.
Taking these two together, the Amsoil oil filter and Fram Endurance are identical filters except the color and the label. One is much more money than the other. That is due to branding, not product differentiation. Again, would people pay an extra 8 bucks to get the same filter from Amsoil that they get from Walmart? Of course not, but they perceive the brand Amsoil provides a better product - hence they pay it - confused customer due to branding. This is 100% the purpose of Amsoil putting their name on it. Amsoil dealers could likely sell a Fram filter to their customers, but no one would pay the premium.
You can then mix the two. I can buy a Chevy, or a Buick. There both the same underneath. The Buick might have better appointments and materials. This is an example maybe of where the differentiation defines the brand. A buick is a Chevy with better seats - for example. Or maybe simply the perception of better seats. You see this a lot. A company will define a brand using differentiation. Then they will cheapen the brand over time, hoping people continue to buy it due to its previous reputation - ie again - confused customer due to branding.
No because I bought the Pontiac Phoenix of that era because it had a sportier look outside and a sportier interior.
There was also the Oldsmobile Omega that had a more conservative styling for an older age demographic to round out the X-Bodies. Keep in mind Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile and Buick brands existed for specific age demographics. The differentiators across the 4 were the body aesthetics and the interiors; engines and drivetrains were the same so no differentiation in performance. It was not a question of one being better than the other it was one of choice in the look of the car and the comfort and look of the interiors.
It might be said that for a period of time the power trains and chassis were the same. Fisher made slightly different bodies for each one. That went away in the mid 80’s as I recall and the only differences were badges and grilles in general. Interiors might have differed as well.
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Stating the obvious here (hopefully), but all filter companies buy and sell from each other. So even a filter painted with one name brand on it could have been made by a different company...it's called purchased-finished in our world. Maybe it's not as prevalent in the passenger car world, but it definitely happens on the heavy-duty side of things.
On a side note, some of you may have seen the news about Fleetguard recently, but I suspect most have not. As of May 2023, Fleetguard is now separated from Cummins and is operating under the parent company name, Atmus Filtration Technologies. Formerly we were run under the name Cummins Filtration, which was a subsidiary part of Cummins Inc. Rather than selling us, Cummins spun us off into our own standalone company and we are now being traded publicly on the NYSE under the ticker ATMU. It is our intent to carry on the Fleetguard brand into the future, but also being exploring adjacent markets where we can expand and take our filter media manufacturing technologies abroad.
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Are these new filters? There are 100's of video of these being cut open on YT already.
We know what they look like. If these are new don't waste you time. There is more benefit and less waste to cutting them open after a long OCI. Then all can see if the media tore or the adbv inverted.
Sorry for the tough love, but this new filter cutting craze has got to be reined in.
You may want to call me a Richard but
- Ken
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I will make and exception to my previous comment. I wish I saw this BEFORE I bougt my Nissan in 2014. Then I would have pulled the filter before I drove the car off the lot! update: you may not know what the issue is here unless you slid the cut can past the media endcaps.
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Hi CR94,
Plymouth and Mercury were true brands at their inceptions in 1928 and 1938 respectively and for most of their 73 year lives. Both had a specific purpose in the market and customers knew it. Plymouth was the opening price point brand for Chrysler to compete with Ford and Chevrolet. Mercury filled the price gap between Ford and Lincoln brands. Through most of their brand lives they had their own unique styling and features to achieve price point targets and age demographics. Plymouth ended because of the brand losing its identity. Mercury’s decline started in 1999 when Ford required each Mercury sedan, wagon and SUV to have a direct Ford equivalent losing its identity. With lose of identity they were no longer brands and were ended.
Both Plymouth and Mercury have rich histories and are a great read!
Hi PimTac,
Additional info on the x-bodies.
The Chevrolet and Pontiac versions were available in two door coupes and 4 door hatchbacks with styling for a younger age demographic. (I was 24 when I bought my Phoenix)
The Buick and Oldsmobile versions were two door coupes and 4 door sedans with styling for an older age demographic.
Ultimately they were all ended after only seven years because of numerous defects and lawsuits.
Real people don't follow the age-related stereotypes assigned to them by automotive marketers. The only people I ever knew who bought Buick or Oldsmobile X-cars were probably in their late 20s at the time, and the only couple I knew who bought a Citation were 60-ish then. Honda tried to sell the Element to 20-somethings, only to discover mainly older folks liked it.
Its true CR94. I too had a colleague that was in his late 40's who bought an Element. When I bought my Phoenix when I was in my 20's, an employee of mine who was the same age as I had a Citation sport model.
Hi SC Maintenance,
No disrespect taken! I think this is a fascinating subject and appreciate the good dialogue.
I do understand the definitions above that you mentioned. Continuing your example of the Amsoil filter, my belief is there has to be a reality of the brand in the product. The Amsoil oil filter has to have something unique about it that represents the Amsoil brand. A better media, more media, greater dirt holding capability etc. This would align with their brand of superior oil. Product brands that are identified and rely on great styling in aesthetic design would never think a copying a competitors product and put their name on it. The brand would be gone instantly.
I know the practice of putting a different sticker on the same oil filter is a common practice but in the long run it is not good for the industry. It creates redundancy and waste which is not the goal of good marketing. Good marketing drives innovation and value. When a brand loses its uniqueness it loses its identity and in time goes away because because the consumers sees the value proposition of the brand is no longer. This doesn't happen instantly but gradually over time until the business drops the brand or the specific product within the brand. In a previous post in this thread I explained the Plymouth and Mercury car brands being eliminated because of the loss of identity. Both had been great brands for decades and consumers knew their value proposition.
Great discussion and I am grateful for you taking the time to share your knowledge.
OVERKILL
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A Nanonet passenger car filter would be music to many of our ears, though I'm not sure how big that market would actually be. The existing FL-820S equivalent just needs a silcone ADBV and it's good to go.
Case in point, Supertech and RainX windshield washer fluid They both come out of the same plant. Highline Warren.
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Almost every brand of mouthwash in this country comes out of a plant in TN. But its made to order - very different formulation per customer spec. All they do is mix and bottle. So just because 2 products come from the same plant doesn't have to mean there the same - sometimes they are, sometimes they are not.
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Hey Richard, did you know that the Titanium 3980 filter media surface area is 64.2% greater than the Endurance 3980. And did you know the Ultra 3980 and TG3980 curiously have bypass valves where none of the other 9 filters for this application do?Are these new filters? There are 100's of video of these being cut open on YT already.
We know what they look like. If these are new don't waste you time. There is more benefit and less waste to cutting them open after a long OCI. Then all can see if the media tore or the adbv inverted.
Sorry for the tough love, but this new filter cutting craze has got to be reined in.
You may want to call me a Richard but
- Ken
Me neither
Because you’ve seen one Ultra or Titanium filter cut open on YT does not mean that’s what the filter built for your car looks like.
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