Oil Filter Flow Question ..

[crazyoildude]

I always felt if an oil filter filters really good the flow can't be that great. I know when i used to use purolators the pure one did not flow as good as the Classic.
I could tell by my mechanical oil gauges. I am going to be using an ultra soon and want to see how that does in the flow department because i believe flow is very important because dirty oil lubricates better than no oil any time.
Any Thoughts?

 

[slowdime]

Flow or filtration, that is the question..
I'm a flow guy personally, a happy medium is even better.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
I always felt if an oil filter filters really good the flow can't be that great. I know when i used to use purolators the pure one did not flow as good as the Classic.
I could tell by my mechanical oil gauges. I am going to be using an ultra soon and want to see how that does in the flow department because i believe flow is very important because dirty oil lubricates better than no oil any time.
Any Thoughts?


As has been said a hundred times, on an engine with a positive displacement oil pump, you can't tell if one filter flows better than another by a simple oil gauge. You would either need a delta-p setup, or if you can run the engine up to near red line with the same oil at the same temperature in both cased and put the pump in to pressure relief, then you might see a slight difference in max oil pressure.

I've ran 5 different oil filter brands on my Z06, have recorded oil pressure vs oil temperature vs engine RPM, and I can see any difference between them all.

BTW - the FU flows and filters about as good any anything available today - even better than the PureOne did, and that's one reason I like the Ultra.

 

[Merkava_4]

NAPA Platinum is the best flowing filter. Even ZeeOSix will tell you it's the next best thing to not having a filter. It's like goin' skinny dippin' in the swimmin' pool nekid!

 

[oldhp]

You are correct Sir. That's why I have always used the biggest filter with the most sq.in. media I could. With these new canister type filters I'm stuck. I wish FRAM would make the Ultra cartridge for my RAM 3.6.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
NAPA Platinum is the best flowing filter. Even ZeeOSix will tell you it's the next best thing to not having a filter. It's like goin' skinny dippin' in the swimmin' pool nekid!


LOL ... +1

 

[oldhp]

ZeeOSix, Is the ZO6 engine oil bypass in the filter or block?

 

[crazyoildude]

It depends where your oil sender and bypass valve happens to be and i could tell every time by looking at my oil gauge and listening to my engine. As for the oil pump it works the same way every time unless it has a problem and that is rare these days. We very seldom get an engine that had a bad oil pump it does happen but not to much these days and we rebuild a lot of motors compared to other engine shops.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: oldhp
ZeeOSix, Is the ZO6 engine oil bypass in the filter or block?


In the block, but that shouldn't make any difference.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
It depends where your oil sender happens to be and i could tell every time by looking at my oil gauge and listening to my engine. As for the oil pump it works the same way every time unless it has a problem and that is rare these days. We very seldom get an engine that had a bad oil pump it does happen but not to much these days and we rebuild a lot of motors compared to other engine shops.


IF the oil pressure sensor was located BEFORE the oil filter, then you could tell if one filter was more restrictive than the next under the same exact engine conditions (ie, same oil, same oil temperature and same engine RPM). That's because the positive displacement oil pump would create more pressure the get the same flow volume through a more restrictive path (ie, filter + oiling circuit total flow resistance).

I've never owned or have seen a vehicle with the oil pressure sensor before the filter ... they've always been located after the filter, as on my Z06, and about all other GM vehicles.

What vehicle do you have crazyoildude?

 

[oldhp]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: oldhp
ZeeOSix, Is the ZO6 engine oil bypass in the filter or block?


In the block, but that shouldn't make any difference.


I always thought if bypass was in block it would have greater on effect on oil pressure with no re-guard for high/lower flow filters. Wouldn't the lower flow filter go into bypass sooner and the higher flow filter later if at all? GM used to make a higher PSI bypass spring for SBC/BBC oil filter mounts. I've used them before with and without hi-pressure oil pumps, but always used the 2 quart oil filter.

 

[crazyoildude]

One is going into a ford and the other is going into a Dodge shop van with a 318
The 318 is very sensitive to oil pressure you can see oil pressure build up on the stock gauge. On the ford its an after market mechanical gauge that is very accurate.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: oldhp
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: oldhp
ZeeOSix, Is the ZO6 engine oil bypass in the filter or block?


In the block, but that shouldn't make any difference.


I always thought if bypass was in block it would have greater on effect on oil pressure with no re-guard for high/lower flow filters. Wouldn't the lower flow filter go into bypass sooner and the higher flow filter later if at all? GM used to make a higher PSI bypass spring for SBC/BBC oil filter mounts. I've used them before with and without hi-pressure oil pumps, but always used the 2 quart oil filter.


The oil filter's bypass valve, be it in the filter or in the engine block, operates according to the pressure differential across the oil filter. If a bypass valve is set to 12 PSI, then it will open when there is 12 PSI of pressure difference across the filter.

The delta-p across the filter is a function of the oil viscosity (ie, weight and temperature), and the flow volume going through the filter due to the oil pump output. And also how much debris is caught in the media as time goes on, which will increase the filter's flow resistance.

Guys put a higher pressure bypass valve spring in GM engines when they use a higher volume oil pump, because as mentioned above the flow volume going through the filter is a key factor in the delta-p created across the filter. They were causing more delta-p across the filter by just increasing flow from using a high volume oil pump. If they then used a heavier weight oil, that too increased the filter delta-p. If they didn't increase the bypass valve PSI setting, then with the high volume oil pump it would most likely cause the bypass valve to open a lot more due to increase filter delta-p.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
One is going into a ford and the other is going into a Dodge shop van with a 318
The 318 is very sensitive to oil pressure you can see oil pressure build up on the stock gauge. On the ford its an after market mechanical gauge that is very accurate.


If the oil pressure sensor is before the filter, then less oil pressure means the filter is less restrictive.

So if you see more oil pressure with the sensor or gauge before the filter, then that filter is more flow restrictive.

With the sensor or gauge after the filter, you won't see any pressure difference unless the oil pump is at pressure relief, which would have to be at very high RPM with pretty thick oil. Of course I'm taking with a positive displacement oil pump here.

So the question is ... is your sensor/gauge before or after the filter, and are you seeing higher or lower oil pressures between different oil filters in use?

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
NAPA Platinum is the best flowing filter. Even ZeeOSix will tell you it's the next best thing to not having a filter. It's like goin' skinny dippin' in the swimmin' pool nekid!


Like ah K&N air filter? Right?

 

[Olas]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
NAPA Platinum is the best flowing filter. Even ZeeOSix will tell you it's the next best thing to not having a filter. It's like goin' skinny dippin' in the swimmin' pool nekid!


Can you go skinny dipping and not be naked?!

 

[dnewton3]

The P1s flow well more than enough even at full rpm. So regardless how restrictive mythology considers them, it's moot. Generally, most any filter probably flows approximately 2x more than the engine is going to require it to move. Surely there's a bit of variance there, but because there is such as WIDE margin of excess flow capacity, it's just moot. Totally, unequivically moot.

Jim Allen's testing showed dP is moot as well, except for a very short blip upon super cold starts.




This flow/efficiency

really needs to be burried right along side the "bigger filter"

I must be getting older; my tolerance of this stuff is getting thinner by the minute ...

 

[Doog]

Just get a Fram orange can and be done with it.....

 

[Kira]

Hello, I agree with, "I must be getting older; my tolerance of this stuff is getting thinner by the minute ... ".

Wouldn't be nice if selected key words could be designated in posts in a way that corresponds to a search method?

In other words, there's no way to look up any of this stuff here or on any automotive board because the search functions are so ridiculously broad.

We're doomed to repeat things. Kira

 

[crazyoildude]

yup and that is what makes these boards interesting