Compared to what?
Oil filter crazy
- Thread starter Durdude
- Start date
Each previous UOA @ 6K intervals
Blackstone disagrees.
The results for Aluminum, Iron, Copper were also ~same for each interval.
“Wasn’t used up” is different than determining a filtering efficiency and then making a quality determination as you were doing.
No I meant what does that number mean? Compared to a different filter or no filter. According to the Blackstone comments it only means the filter did not fail or clog, or as you say “doing its job”. It doesn’t say anything more.
But that may be all you’re intending to say after 18,000 miles. I just wondered what are some numbers that could be used for comparison. Insolubles is a bit non-specific as ZeeOSix noted.
Last edited:
There are plenty of Blackstone UOAs on this chat board that show both "Insolubles %" and ISO Particle Count data on the same UOA, and if you look for a correlation between those two data sets, there is zero correlation. So again, "Insolubles %" is not a good method to determine the filtering performance of an oil filter. And what exactly constitutes the point when a filter is "used up"? You would have to have continuous monitoring of the oil cleanliness coming out of the filter and the delta-p across the filter to determine that.Blackstone disagrees.
The results for Aluminum, Iron, Copper were also ~same for each interval.
UOA "Insolubles %" vs ISO Particle Count
Many times someone will say ... "Hey, the oil filter must have been doing a good job because the UOA "Insolubles %" was low". But it's also been mentioned that the "Insolubles %" is an insensitive and bad parameter to measure the oil cleanliness to reflect oil filtering effectiveness. So I went...
bobistheoilguy.com
Last edited:
Most vehicles that achieve high miles are those that are serviced regularly and are driven many miles per year. Once an engine reaches a stabilized operating temperature the wear rate drops to minimal as compared to the warm up cycle wear. Will your vehicle ever see 500,000 miles? What make of vehicle is it. A vehicle that drives 200 miles per day will have its engine last longer miles than one that drives one mile to the mall and sits all day then drives a mile home .
With the massive wind/dust storms and extreme weather we encounter here in Alaska, I'm running my remaining wire-backed Fram Ultra filters two to three OCI's. They can handle it as my OCI's are rather short -- 2500 to 3500 miles. There's nothing wrong with that. I also run either Wix or ACDelco heavy duty air filters -- quality stuff.
Glacial silt picked up and blown down the Matanuska and Knik glaciers and river valleys is deposited in my area at the head end of the Knik Arm of Cook Inlet. It's extreme here in so many ways. Hurricanes have nothing on the windstorms we see every year ... hurricane force winds that last for DAYS, not hours like a lower-48 hurricane. Funny thing is these wind storms typically happen down around 0 degrees F. High pressure from interior Alaska is sucked down the mountain valleys and is deposited into a low pressure system coming up into the Gulf of Alaska and Cook Inlet. The low pressure systems are remnants of earlier SE Asia and Japanese storms.
We're a hardy bunch here.
Glacial silt picked up and blown down the Matanuska and Knik glaciers and river valleys is deposited in my area at the head end of the Knik Arm of Cook Inlet. It's extreme here in so many ways. Hurricanes have nothing on the windstorms we see every year ... hurricane force winds that last for DAYS, not hours like a lower-48 hurricane. Funny thing is these wind storms typically happen down around 0 degrees F. High pressure from interior Alaska is sucked down the mountain valleys and is deposited into a low pressure system coming up into the Gulf of Alaska and Cook Inlet. The low pressure systems are remnants of earlier SE Asia and Japanese storms.
We're a hardy bunch here.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2022
- Messages
- 520
Subie, didn't you used to use Amsoil ?
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2022
- Messages
- 520
Do shorter oci's really result in less wear? We know that there are two sides to that coin.
Shorter OCIs get rid of debris in the oil that can't be removed by an inefficient oil filter, and helps keep the viscosity from reducing much from any shearing and/or fuel dilution. Shorter OCIs are a good thing on DI engines that have bad fuel dilution.
Apparently, longer OCIs allow a better build-up of the AF/AW tribofilm on parts. Unknown which factors are the strongest, and it may vary dependant on use conditions, length of OCI, oil formulation, etc. But the bottom line is using a high efficiency oil filter can help keep the oil cleaner during longer OCIs. Less wear occurs with cleaner oil, and there's no study that says otherwise.
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2022
- Messages
- 520
Yeah but I was just pointing to the shorter OCI factor not the oil filter efficiency. We have better oil filters now (Fram Ultra) which last longer. We're going with longer air filter intervals, and it seems with good reason. Yet with the great engine oils we have we waste them by changing it too soon. I know with GDI we need to be a bit more conservative but no need to be overly cautious. You mentioned shorter oci's in parenthesis but it seemed like a blanket statement with no mention of gdi I believe.
There's basically two ways to remove debris from the sump: 1) Change the oil, 2) Filter the oil better. The longer the OCI, the more important a higher efficiency filter becomes. For super long OCIs, like on a big diesel engine, a very efficient bypass filtering system will be used to control oil cleanliness which allows such long OCIs.
It was a blanket statement in that post, but mentioned that DI engines with bad fuel dilution will benifit from shorter OCIs in a following post since we're drilling down on the discussion, and going beyond filtration and getting into the oil.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2022
- Messages
- 520
Sure if we include all the usual suspects it's a no brainer. If I'm going to the expense of using the best oil and filters then I will do 7.5-10k miles, almost without thinking twice, not 3-5k. In general what is your definition of a short oci?
Of course, using the "best oil and filter" could allow for a longer OCI, never eluded otherwise. But obviously, vehicle use conditions are also a factor. Short drive cycles in cold weather with a DI engine vs long extended highway drives in warmer weather is going to factor into the OCI.
In general, given "normal use conditions", I'd say 3-5K miles is a short OCI, 7.5K is nominal and 10-12K is a long OCI. In ideal non-server very long drive cycle use conditions (mostly highway use) in warm (not super hot) weather and non-dusty environment using premium oil and filter, a 15K OCI could be doable.
Of course everyone will have their own definition of a "short, nominal and long OCI", hopefully somewhat based on the vehicle useage and the products they use. And since it's their vehicle then they have the perogative to create the definition that makes them comfortable, just like most decisions people make in life, regardless if it makes sense or not.
Last edited:
Sure, I’ve used them all.
Now that I can get HPL to my door for less than Amsoil, there’s no real reason for me to buy it.
I’m in agreement with dnewton3 here...overly frequent air filter changes can do more harm than good. I changed the OE air filter on my 2016 Escape using a Motorcraft AF at 46k and it looked fine...and a UOA showed great results. I recently did another UOA at 60k and it looked fine. If I had gone by Fram’s (or most other AF manufacturers) recommended 10k change interval I would have increased the chances of poor fit, misalignment of housing causing leaks etc...4 times. I feel that in a well designed air intake system it’s possible to go pretty far on an air filter especially if verified by UOA...
What ever floats your boat. Your not extending your ocis and will control contamination by dumping it out with the oil. $3 supertech would probably serve you as well as anything else.
