Oil choice for an MOS2 mpg experiment
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Originally Posted By: nitro9
Where are you getting your MoS2?
NAPA here,just picked up two cans this evening. AAP manager looked at me like i was asking materials too create a nuclear bomb and said... we dont carry that...... thanks too NAPA ordered yesterday, picked up today.
Where are you getting your MoS2?
NAPA here,just picked up two cans this evening. AAP manager looked at me like i was asking materials too create a nuclear bomb and said... we dont carry that...... thanks too NAPA ordered yesterday, picked up today.
So I was at Walmart yesterday to grab whatever was in rollback for this experiment and low and behold the mighty M1 was 25 a jug,so I bought 3 since 1.5 are required per change.
Bought 2 puro classics as well.
So I changed the oil,filled er up and testing has begun.
If mos2 can help mileage over using M1 5w-20 with all its magic and sorcery then it can help any oil reduce friction. Time will tell.
I'll update at every fill up mileage based on the digital dash readout AND calculate using quantity purchased vs miles driven.
If the cars readout is consistent with manual calculation I will just go with it.
Bought 2 puro classics as well.
So I changed the oil,filled er up and testing has begun.
If mos2 can help mileage over using M1 5w-20 with all its magic and sorcery then it can help any oil reduce friction. Time will tell.
I'll update at every fill up mileage based on the digital dash readout AND calculate using quantity purchased vs miles driven.
If the cars readout is consistent with manual calculation I will just go with it.
Since I used MOS2 a long time ago, I have been adding only a couple of ounces with each oil change.
FYI- Molybdenum Disulfide will not stick to carbon, gum, varnish, wax buildup from incomplete combustion. Moly only plates to metal. In order to get the full effects of Moly onto the bearing, cam, tappet, piston, ring, etc surfaces you have to clean out the sludge that is in the engine. Are you going to do that?
Originally Posted By: nitro9
FYI- Molybdenum Disulfide will not stick to carbon, gum, varnish, wax buildup from incomplete combustion. Moly only plates to metal. In order to get the full effects of Moly onto the bearing, cam, tappet, piston, ring, etc surfaces you have to clean out the sludge that is in the engine. Are you going to do that?
Already done.
I've run a can of seafoam for 200 miles,then drained.
Then I used straight 60 and 2 quarts idle flush for 15 minutes and oil came out as clean as it went in.
I'm calling er clean.
FYI- Molybdenum Disulfide will not stick to carbon, gum, varnish, wax buildup from incomplete combustion. Moly only plates to metal. In order to get the full effects of Moly onto the bearing, cam, tappet, piston, ring, etc surfaces you have to clean out the sludge that is in the engine. Are you going to do that?
Already done.
I've run a can of seafoam for 200 miles,then drained.
Then I used straight 60 and 2 quarts idle flush for 15 minutes and oil came out as clean as it went in.
I'm calling er clean.
FYI- Molybdenum Disulfide will not stick to carbon, gum, varnish, wax buildup from incomplete combustion. Moly only plates to metal. In order to get the full effects of Moly onto the bearing, cam, tappet, piston, ring, etc surfaces you have to clean out the sludge that is in the engine. Are you going to do that?
With regard to the above, do you think a high detergent oil might have an adverse effect?
What I mean is, if this stuff is designed to stick to the walls and such, might a high detergent oil simply "scrape" it right off again?
I'm thinking in terms of the highly advertised cleaning oils like Penzoil...Mobil 1. I realize the most/all oils have detergents but some clean better than others so I've heard
With regard to the above, do you think a high detergent oil might have an adverse effect?
What I mean is, if this stuff is designed to stick to the walls and such, might a high detergent oil simply "scrape" it right off again?
I'm thinking in terms of the highly advertised cleaning oils like Penzoil...Mobil 1. I realize the most/all oils have detergents but some clean better than others so I've heard
Originally Posted By: nitro9
Where are you getting your MoS2?
Got it at Napa for $8. See photo I posted above...called "LubroMoly" on can.
Where are you getting your MoS2?
Got it at Napa for $8. See photo I posted above...called "LubroMoly" on can.
Originally Posted By: Finz
FYI- Molybdenum Disulfide will not stick to carbon, gum, varnish, wax buildup from incomplete combustion. Moly only plates to metal. In order to get the full effects of Moly onto the bearing, cam, tappet, piston, ring, etc surfaces you have to clean out the sludge that is in the engine. Are you going to do that?
With regard to the above, do you think a high detergent oil might have an adverse effect?
What I mean is, if this stuff is designed to stick to the walls and such, might a high detergent oil simply "scrape" it right off again?
I'm thinking in terms of the highly advertised cleaning oils like Penzoil...Mobil 1. I realize the most/all oils have detergents but some clean better than others so I've heard
First off mos2 doesn't "stick" like tape or spitballs.
Its a solid lubricant. If you throw a few drop on the wall they will sit there,and benefit nothing.
How it works is the metal contact points(pushrods to cams for example)rub the 1/2 micron particles under stress and pressure and heat into the microscopic hills and valleys of the metals where friction is occurring. Once these irregularities are pressure fed mos2 the create an ultra smooth,extremely durable layer which can effectively reduce the co-efficient of friction. And because the metals are separated by this hard layer there is little to no contact of the actual metal underneath this layer.
At start up the layer is sacrificial and may wear slightly off however as soon as you re-create what put it there in the first place(you pouring in bottle,then heat friction and pressure) will re-apply as long as the engines able to maintain those requisites for an unspecified quantity of time.
In everything I use it in it takes time to layer on enough to be effective. I found that in my Chevy it took 500 miles before I say a significant difference in mileage however my mustand was only 300 miles before it peaked,and wouldn't increase significantly anymore.
I'm thinking 30-40 minute drives with engine stopped until completely cooled is ideal.
I think that there is enough heat and pressure in that trip to allow the mos2 to leave a thin layer. Then repeat after cool down. Lots of layers built up and compressed together leads me to believe that the layers would be welded and unlikely to potentially peel at any given point.
The Chevy was driven to bc with is virgin run of mos2 which is why I believe it took longer to plate. I think the cool down is what hardens them,increasing its resistance to tearing.
I know the organic moly found in PYB leaves only a single microscopic layer which doesn't layer. Its worn off at start up and reapplied when hot and the zddp is active.
Think of organic moly as a type of slick slime. Think of zddp as a polished granite countertop laser cut with not even a microscopically seen irregularity.
Now imagine the thin layer of slim on top of the zddp.
Slick.
Now imagine a marble with an axle through the center and a ball point pens tip pressed against this spinning marble with a solution of fluid that contains a softer type rock.
As the pens tip heats up the rocks physical properties alter slightly and these nano specs begin to become malleable and can be compressed without any voids,all the while being layered on top and compressed
Better analogy for mos2.
Samurai sword. Heat the metal,pound flat. Re-heat and fold the metal over itself creating an incredibly hard,multi-layered product that once cooled is even harder.
At start up that hardened layer has a pen tip pushed into it,dry. Only the mos2. It heats up as the rotations increase and some of the layer melts off until the oil comes to the rescue and moistens the contact points at which time,once it achieves the necessary temp the cycle starts all over again.
This is I believe why I maintain the attained mileage improvements with only a half dose per subsequent oil change.
Well a novella this time.
Lets see who wants to quote and rebut on this one.
The opinions written are my personal observations and assumptions and I am in no way an expert. I merely deduced these observations after careful thought,making the odd leap hear and there.
Similar to the missing link in the evolution theory. I've got a few missing links and I'm confident in the knowledge they will not be found.
Missing links have more fun anyways.
FYI- Molybdenum Disulfide will not stick to carbon, gum, varnish, wax buildup from incomplete combustion. Moly only plates to metal. In order to get the full effects of Moly onto the bearing, cam, tappet, piston, ring, etc surfaces you have to clean out the sludge that is in the engine. Are you going to do that?
With regard to the above, do you think a high detergent oil might have an adverse effect?
What I mean is, if this stuff is designed to stick to the walls and such, might a high detergent oil simply "scrape" it right off again?
I'm thinking in terms of the highly advertised cleaning oils like Penzoil...Mobil 1. I realize the most/all oils have detergents but some clean better than others so I've heard
First off mos2 doesn't "stick" like tape or spitballs.
Its a solid lubricant. If you throw a few drop on the wall they will sit there,and benefit nothing.
How it works is the metal contact points(pushrods to cams for example)rub the 1/2 micron particles under stress and pressure and heat into the microscopic hills and valleys of the metals where friction is occurring. Once these irregularities are pressure fed mos2 the create an ultra smooth,extremely durable layer which can effectively reduce the co-efficient of friction. And because the metals are separated by this hard layer there is little to no contact of the actual metal underneath this layer.
At start up the layer is sacrificial and may wear slightly off however as soon as you re-create what put it there in the first place(you pouring in bottle,then heat friction and pressure) will re-apply as long as the engines able to maintain those requisites for an unspecified quantity of time.
In everything I use it in it takes time to layer on enough to be effective. I found that in my Chevy it took 500 miles before I say a significant difference in mileage however my mustand was only 300 miles before it peaked,and wouldn't increase significantly anymore.
I'm thinking 30-40 minute drives with engine stopped until completely cooled is ideal.
I think that there is enough heat and pressure in that trip to allow the mos2 to leave a thin layer. Then repeat after cool down. Lots of layers built up and compressed together leads me to believe that the layers would be welded and unlikely to potentially peel at any given point.
The Chevy was driven to bc with is virgin run of mos2 which is why I believe it took longer to plate. I think the cool down is what hardens them,increasing its resistance to tearing.
I know the organic moly found in PYB leaves only a single microscopic layer which doesn't layer. Its worn off at start up and reapplied when hot and the zddp is active.
Think of organic moly as a type of slick slime. Think of zddp as a polished granite countertop laser cut with not even a microscopically seen irregularity.
Now imagine the thin layer of slim on top of the zddp.
Slick.
Now imagine a marble with an axle through the center and a ball point pens tip pressed against this spinning marble with a solution of fluid that contains a softer type rock.
As the pens tip heats up the rocks physical properties alter slightly and these nano specs begin to become malleable and can be compressed without any voids,all the while being layered on top and compressed
Better analogy for mos2.
Samurai sword. Heat the metal,pound flat. Re-heat and fold the metal over itself creating an incredibly hard,multi-layered product that once cooled is even harder.
At start up that hardened layer has a pen tip pushed into it,dry. Only the mos2. It heats up as the rotations increase and some of the layer melts off until the oil comes to the rescue and moistens the contact points at which time,once it achieves the necessary temp the cycle starts all over again.
This is I believe why I maintain the attained mileage improvements with only a half dose per subsequent oil change.
Well a novella this time.
Lets see who wants to quote and rebut on this one.
The opinions written are my personal observations and assumptions and I am in no way an expert. I merely deduced these observations after careful thought,making the odd leap hear and there.
Similar to the missing link in the evolution theory. I've got a few missing links and I'm confident in the knowledge they will not be found.
Missing links have more fun anyways.
Especially since your in Canada.
A good full syn 5/0w-20 would probably make more of a fuel economy difference then the Mos2. Imagine both...
Plus a reduction of startup wear, and oil getting to various surfaces quicker, reducing the time that the layer of "slick slime" gets chewed on before the oil helps.
I'd go PP 0w-20, and if you like the Lubri-Moly, add it as well.
I'm running that without the additive in a Vulcan engined Taurus that in its original inception specced a 5w-30, its never been quieter, its hot here in NYC these days, and the situation is completely normal.
A good full syn 5/0w-20 would probably make more of a fuel economy difference then the Mos2. Imagine both...
Plus a reduction of startup wear, and oil getting to various surfaces quicker, reducing the time that the layer of "slick slime" gets chewed on before the oil helps.
I'd go PP 0w-20, and if you like the Lubri-Moly, add it as well.
I'm running that without the additive in a Vulcan engined Taurus that in its original inception specced a 5w-30, its never been quieter, its hot here in NYC these days, and the situation is completely normal.
Honestly, if you're doing a comparison strictly for the purpose of determining if LM MoS2 makes any difference, I'd use a base oil with no moly. Any organic/soluble moly in the background is likely to skew the results.
How about something like GC, Valvoline, Napa, or SuperTech?
How about something like GC, Valvoline, Napa, or SuperTech?
I ran it and did a UOA with Castrol HM, which has no moly of it's own, results were disappointing but there were a lot of factors involved in that. It coulda been even worse without the MoS2 I will never know.
I will be doing another UOA on a thicker oil in about 1800 miles, no MoS2 this time, but also a different oil (PYB) so there won't be a lot to compare. Just hoping for better overall results.
I will be doing another UOA on a thicker oil in about 1800 miles, no MoS2 this time, but also a different oil (PYB) so there won't be a lot to compare. Just hoping for better overall results.
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
Especially since your in Canada.
A good full syn 5/0w-20 would probably make more of a fuel economy difference then the Mos2. Imagine both...
Plus a reduction of startup wear, and oil getting to various surfaces quicker, reducing the time that the layer of "slick slime" gets chewed on before the oil helps.
I'd go PP 0w-20, and if you like the Lubri-Moly, add it as well.
I'm running that without the additive in a Vulcan engined Taurus that in its original inception specced a 5w-30, its never been quieter, its hot here in NYC these days, and the situation is completely normal.
I've already got my game plan.
As far as using an oil without moly why does it matter.
The purpose of this is to establish if mos2 helps fuel economy,so oil choice is irrelevant. Using the same brand and grade are what's important as to keep external variables to a minimum.
And to be honest I'm only doing this for fun. I know mos2 increases mileage. It's proven itself to me for years now,so this whole experiment is more for you guys.
Since the test car is new to me I don't even know myself what it's mileage figures are normally,so this whole exercise helps me determine normalcy and what isn't normal.
Thanks for the advice guys but I think I'm alright.
I've already bought 3 jugs of M1 5w-20 for this test.
Once I hit 3000 miles I will change the oil and start over including mos2 in the new oil. Then I've got identical starting points using identical oil.
Oh and I had a couple puro's for this but I got a deal on the Bosch filters so I'm going to use them instead
Especially since your in Canada.
A good full syn 5/0w-20 would probably make more of a fuel economy difference then the Mos2. Imagine both...
Plus a reduction of startup wear, and oil getting to various surfaces quicker, reducing the time that the layer of "slick slime" gets chewed on before the oil helps.
I'd go PP 0w-20, and if you like the Lubri-Moly, add it as well.
I'm running that without the additive in a Vulcan engined Taurus that in its original inception specced a 5w-30, its never been quieter, its hot here in NYC these days, and the situation is completely normal.
I've already got my game plan.
As far as using an oil without moly why does it matter.
The purpose of this is to establish if mos2 helps fuel economy,so oil choice is irrelevant. Using the same brand and grade are what's important as to keep external variables to a minimum.
And to be honest I'm only doing this for fun. I know mos2 increases mileage. It's proven itself to me for years now,so this whole experiment is more for you guys.
Since the test car is new to me I don't even know myself what it's mileage figures are normally,so this whole exercise helps me determine normalcy and what isn't normal.
Thanks for the advice guys but I think I'm alright.
I've already bought 3 jugs of M1 5w-20 for this test.
Once I hit 3000 miles I will change the oil and start over including mos2 in the new oil. Then I've got identical starting points using identical oil.
Oh and I had a couple puro's for this but I got a deal on the Bosch filters so I'm going to use them instead
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Once I hit 3000 miles I will change the oil and start over including mos2 in the new oil. Then I've got identical starting points using identical oil.
I was thinking about doing this, too, before you typed this. Since the civic's an oil burner I'm gonna grab two more jugs. Are you changing the filter at this time, too?
Once I hit 3000 miles I will change the oil and start over including mos2 in the new oil. Then I've got identical starting points using identical oil.
I was thinking about doing this, too, before you typed this. Since the civic's an oil burner I'm gonna grab two more jugs. Are you changing the filter at this time, too?
Update: still early in the baseline mpg measurement / so far there has been an increase from the switch over to PU and Honda filter.
Previous results (with Maxlife 10w30/ M1-110 oil filter)
6-22-2013.....370.0 mi./12.440 gal = 29.74
7-13-2013.....364.0 mi./12.423 gal = 29.30
7-22-2013.....356.3 mi./12.119 gal = 29.40
7-28-2013.....349.4 mi./11.997 gal = 29.12
1439.7 miles / 48.979 gallons = 29.39 mpg
Baseline results (with Pennzoil Ultra 10w30 / Honda OEM oil filter)
8-04-2013.....369.4 mi./12.303 gal = 30.03
8-09-2013.....381.5 mi./12.386 gal = 30.80
750.9 miles / 24.689 gallons = 30.41 mpg
Previous results (with Maxlife 10w30/ M1-110 oil filter)
6-22-2013.....370.0 mi./12.440 gal = 29.74
7-13-2013.....364.0 mi./12.423 gal = 29.30
7-22-2013.....356.3 mi./12.119 gal = 29.40
7-28-2013.....349.4 mi./11.997 gal = 29.12
1439.7 miles / 48.979 gallons = 29.39 mpg
Baseline results (with Pennzoil Ultra 10w30 / Honda OEM oil filter)
8-04-2013.....369.4 mi./12.303 gal = 30.03
8-09-2013.....381.5 mi./12.386 gal = 30.80
750.9 miles / 24.689 gallons = 30.41 mpg
Originally Posted By: Brule
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Once I hit 3000 miles I will change the oil and start over including mos2 in the new oil. Then I've got identical starting points using identical oil.
I was thinking about doing this, too, before you typed this. Since the civic's an oil burner I'm gonna grab two more jugs. Are you changing the filter at this time, too?
I'm changing the filter too so both runs are identical.
I changed the oil on Thursday and started a fuelly account to track everything easy for me. Last fill up was a combined 17mpg.
Never went anywhere yesterday but this afternoon will be busy.
I'll keep this thread updated
Originally Posted By: Clevy
Once I hit 3000 miles I will change the oil and start over including mos2 in the new oil. Then I've got identical starting points using identical oil.
I was thinking about doing this, too, before you typed this. Since the civic's an oil burner I'm gonna grab two more jugs. Are you changing the filter at this time, too?
I'm changing the filter too so both runs are identical.
I changed the oil on Thursday and started a fuelly account to track everything easy for me. Last fill up was a combined 17mpg.
Never went anywhere yesterday but this afternoon will be busy.
I'll keep this thread updated
Originally Posted By: Finz
Brule/Clevy...
Any updates?
Just ordered 4 cans off Amazon - about $8 each
Still working on my baseline mpg. I am going to update in a few days two more runs. Too bad my Maxlife data obviously can't be included.
Brule/Clevy...
Any updates?
Just ordered 4 cans off Amazon - about $8 each
Still working on my baseline mpg. I am going to update in a few days two more runs. Too bad my Maxlife data obviously can't be included.
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