OG Fram Titanium FS7317 C&P with bypass flashlight test

[Fair enough]

A bypass filtering system usually also employees a full-full filter in the system. Who here has tested an oiling system for cleanliness with only using a bypass filter without a full full also in the system?

Theory for topic was bypass is partial flow, (with or without a full flow in the system,) although I said unfiltered in post, and it keeps oil cleaner. As is seen here, 100% of the oil passing through the full flow leaves oil as shown. When 10% is passed through a bypass, it is cleaned up, dramatically, fast. Same theory for the new Ultra if is has light leak, and I think they tested it to put the data on the box. Not use old data on the box. They test assembled filters for product efficiency, and just the elements for bubble test. So they use a cork like Ascent did. Ascent also tests efficiency on assembled I am sure.
Everyone can agree or not with this, it’s all good. One could spend their life time arguing about oil filters, fine. I’ll keep using the Ultra as new purchases from now on, the $8 kind.
Whatever you decide for your cars, good.

Link to Amsoil bypass test video didn’t work.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Theory for topic was bypass is partial flow, (with or without a full flow in the system,) although I said unfiltered in post, and it keeps oil cleaner. As is seen here, 100% of the oil passing through the full flow leaves oil as shown. When 10% is passed through a bypass, it is cleaned up, dramatically, fast. Same theory for the new Ultra if is has light leak, and I think they tested it to put the data on the box. Not use old data on the box. They test assembled filters for product efficiency, and just the elements for bubble test. So they use a cork like Ascent did. Ascent also tests efficiency on assembled I am sure.
Everyone can agree or not with this, it’s all good. One could spend their life time arguing about oil filters, fine. I’ll keep using the Ultra as new purchases from now on, the $8 kind.
Whatever you decide for your cars, good.

Link to Amsoil bypass test video didn’t work.

Using only a bypass filter without also a good efficiency full flow filter will not clean up the oil as well as without a full flow filter also in the system. If only using a bypass filter was so good, then auto makers would just use only a bypass filter like they did 80-90 years ago.

As as far as ISO 4548-12 testing, all the filter makers only test a few models and once that's done they don't keep testing unless some major design change has been done along the way. So the ISO test efficiency claims you currently see could be based on filters tested many years ago. So when a manufacturing flaw shows up, the efficiency of the filters may not be the same as they were when ISO tested many years ago. So yes, they very well could be using old ISO efficiency data and claims.

 

[Fair enough]

Using only a bypass filter without also a good efficiency full flow filter will not clean up the oil as well as without a full flow filter also in the system. If only using a bypass filter was so good, then auto makers would just use only a bypass filter like they did 80-90 years ago.

As as far as ISO 4548-12 testing, all the filter makers only test a few models and once that's done they don't keep testing unless some major design change has been done along the way. So the ISO test efficiency claims you currently see could be based on filters tested many years ago. So when a manufacturing flaw shows up, the efficiency of the filters may not be the same as they were when ISO tested many years ago. So yes, they very well could be using old ISO efficiency data and claims.

I did the best I could explaining it above. It’s not about which is better bypass or full flow media. Although the Amsoil bypass test stand video does feature that difference and promotes it. I understand it to my satisfaction, so go on my way with case closed as to what oil filter I will buy next.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I did the best I could explaining it above. It’s not about which is better bypass or full flow media. Although the Amsoil bypass test stand video does feature that difference and promotes it. I understand it to my satisfaction, so go on my way with case closed as to what oil filter I will buy next.

If you think just using a bypass filter is better, maybe you should just run that and put an empty can on the filter mount to get rid of full flow filtration.

 

[Fair enough]

If you think just using a bypass filter is better, maybe you should just run that and put an empty can on the filter mount to get rid of full flow filtration.

People do that all the time with an adapter. Then there is a sandwich adapter to keep a full flow on. For the theory I am talking about it makes no difference. Whatever the base oil condition is, the bypass filter takes over from there. It has no flow requirements to the engine parts. if the bypass takes out soot, it takes out everything the full flow does, as the Amsoil video shows. I guess I can’t believe what I see.
Thinking about this more, I think the error is thinking any oil bypassing is always dirty. Why the heck would that be getting dirty so fast. It was just filtered and engines aren’t creating mounds of dirt every minute. It is shown in the Amsoil video how bypass corrects what the full flow could not, although that wasn’t the purpose of talking about the light leak gap in an oil filter, mattering or not. That was the topic, light leak mattering or not. Not anything else.

 

[ZeeOSix]

People do that all the time with an adapter. Then there is a sandwich adapter to keep a full flow on. For the theory I am talking about it makes no difference. Whatever the base oil condition is, the bypass filter takes over from there. It has no flow requirements to the engine parts. if the bypass takes out soot, it takes out everything the full flow does, as the Amsoil video shows. I guess I can’t believe what I see.

People don't remove the full flow oil filter and just use a bypass filter "all the time". How many guys here are using only a bypass filter like cars used in the 40s and 50s? ... zero. If it was such a good filtering setup then why isn't everyone removing their full flow filters and just using a bypass filter that only siphons off 10% or less of the flow going through the oiling system. Running just a bypass filter without s full flow filter isn't going to be better. It is only better if it's used in conjunction with a full flow filter.

Thinking about this more, I think the error is thinking any oil bypassing is always dirty. Why the heck would that be getting dirty so fast. It was just filtered and engines aren’t creating mounds of dirt every minute. It is shown in the Amsoil video how bypass corrects what the full flow could not, although that wasn’t the purpose of talking about the light leak gap in an oil filter, mattering or not. That was the topic, light leak mattering or not. Not anything else.

You're the one who brought up bypass filtering in post 59. Fact is, any oil filter with a leak path can let dirty oil bypass the filtering media. If it's detrimental of not depends on how much is how dirty the oil is and how much oil is bypassing the media. And of course if the person using the inefficient filter cares or not. Some people don't really care about efficiency, so in that case they shouldn't really worry about a leaky filter either.

 

[Fair enough]

People don't remove the full flow oil filter and just use a bypass filter "all the time". How many guys here are using only a bypass filter like cars used in the 40s and 50s? ... zero. If it was such a good filtering setup then why isn't everyone removing their full flow filters and just using a bypass filter that only siphons off 10% or less of the flow going through the oiling system. Running just a bypass filter without s full flow filter isn't going to be better. It is only better if it's used in conjunction with a full flow filter.


You're the one who brought up bypass filtering in post 59. Fact is, any oil filter with a leak path can let dirty oil bypass the filtering media. If it's detrimental of not depends on how much is how dirty the oil is and how much oil is bypassing the media. And of course if the person using the inefficient filter cares or not. Some people don't really care about efficiency, so in that case they shouldn't really worry about a leaky filter either.

All the time is a figure of speech, not literal.
So you must have gotten something out of the Amsoil video. I tried to link it. It isn’t hard to find in their site.

I made my decision to what is best for me. Fram Ultra probably, the new kind for $8. Because the media they have put some time into it being good, and another very important factor is Made in USA.

 

[ZeeOSix]

So you must have gotten something out of the Amsoil video. I tried to link it. It isn’t hard to find in their site.

I take it this is the video. Like I said, the bypass filter is used in conjunction with the full flow filter ... they say that right in the video. Nobody removes their full flow filter and JUST runs a bypass filter. That would be going backwards. Do high efficiency bypass filters added to an existing system along with a full flow filter help keep the oil cleaner? ... absolutely. But don't know how you ever got off on this path while talking about dirty oil leakage inside a full flow filter.

 

[Fair enough]

I take it this is the video. Like I said, the bypass filter is used in conjunction with the full flow filter ... they say that right in the video. Nobody removes their full flow filter and JUST runs a bypass filter. That would be going backwards. Do high efficiency bypass filters added to an existing system along with a full flow filter help keep the oil cleaner? ... absolutely. But don't know how you ever got off on this path while talking about dirty oil leakage inside a full flow filter.

I got on the path because the leak is bypassing oil. Actually a 99%@20 micron filter says it is bypassing 1% of the 100%. There is always bypass. The amsoil example doesn’t have to have the full flow in there at all. That’s sort of their sales point. It isn’t doing anything at that point. The theory how a bypass low micron filter results in clean oil is hard to understand, I haven’t grasped it yet, but it’s a fact. It probably is rate of contamination versus removal rate. I think the error is thinking the leaking, or passing, oil is somehow getting a high rate of added dirt. If the slit is .005 in. high times 1 in, thats .005 sq in. An oil filter is maybe 100 sq in., so 20,000 times the slit opening. The oil in the slit has already been passing through the 99% filter media over and over. It isn’t simple.
So what is your theory on why the oil passing the leak will be contaminated and detrimental.
It’s supposed to be food for thought, but in practical personal terms I have no need to go on with it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I got on the path because the leak is bypassing oil. Actually a 99%@20 micron filter says it is bypassing 1% of the 100%. There is always bypass.

No, a 99% @ 20u filter means it's filtering out 99% of all the particles that are 20 microns and larger. It doesn't mean the filter is actually bypassing any dirty oil through a leak path. It's a measure of the filtering efficiency of the oil when it's actually flowing through the media. But, when you add a leak path, then the filter's efficiency is going to decrease ... essentially like making the media less efficient without any dirty oil leakage around the media. How much the efficiency decreases depends on how large the leak path is.

Depending on the size of the leak, quite a bit of total dirty oil flow volume going into the filter could be bypassed through the leak gap. Example posted in another thread.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...light-to-bypass-seal-area.386625/post-6998340

The amsoil example doesn’t have to have the full flow in there at all. That’s sort of their sales point. It isn’t doing anything at that point.

The example of the high efficiency bypass filter in the video was just showing how efficient those bypass filters are, which is basically 99% @ 2 microns. When the system is installed on an engine the full flow filter is also there. A bypass system like this is never just the only filter in the system. Do some more research on bypass filtering systems.

The theory how a bypass low micron filter results in clean oil is hard to understand, I haven’t grasped it yet, but it’s a fact.

No it's not hard to grasp. Watch this.

It probably is rate of contamination versus removal rate. I think the error is thinking the leaking, or passing, oil is somehow getting a high rate of added dirt. If the slit is .005 in. high times 1 in, thats .005 sq in. An oil filter is maybe 100 sq in., so 20,000 times the slit opening. The oil in the slit has already been passing through the 99% filter media over and over. It isn’t simple.
So what is your theory on why the oil passing the leak will be contaminated and detrimental.
It’s supposed to be food for thought, but in practical personal terms I have no need to go on with it.

See the link above with the calculation example. The leak could be pretty large through a pretty small opening. Most people don't have a good comprehension of fluid flow, but when you run the calculations it shows just how much fluid can flow through a pretty small opening with very little pressure to drive the flow. In the example in the link above, the flow was 0.57 GPM with only 0.8 PSI of pressure delta across the leak path.

The bottom line is that leak paths that allow dirty oil to not go through the filter media will decrease the filter's effective efficiency.