OG Fram Titanium FS7317 C&P with bypass flashlight test

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I thought most of the new ones had louvers. After a quick search the really wavy ones had holes and no wire backing.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/fram-titanium-fs10575-torn-c-p.383029/

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/new-style-fram-ultra-xg3614.380976/
When they first nefariously switched media they kept the frame the same. Granted eliminating the wire screen gave room for more media, & with it more densely packed, less likely to tear. I think they put the larger diameter louvered tube in to make shorter pleats & further strengthen the media against wavyness possibly leading to tearing.
 
WOW... I'm starting to lose track of threads on this topic...is this a "sister thread" taking off on it's own? LOL
Again... we need to settle the UNERLYING CONTROVERSY as to whether flashlight tests trump accepted standards of testing on ultimate filtration........ are they a RED FLAG or a RED HERRING? One thing that's come out of this controversy>>>It's informative and I've learned a lot. So...carry on.
 
Only one way to know ... cut the filters open and inspect for any leakage gaps or not after an official ISO test is done. If filters with leakage have worse efficiency than the same ones without leakage, then you'd know the effect on efficiency. Bring lots of money! 🤑💰🤑

 
WOW... I'm starting to lose track of threads on this topic...is this a "sister thread" taking off on it's own? LOL
Again... we need to settle the UNERLYING CONTROVERSY as to whether flashlight tests trump accepted standards of testing on ultimate filtration........ are they a RED FLAG or a RED HERRING? One thing that's come out of this controversy>>>It's informative and I've learned a lot. So...carry on.
Well, was a tactical flashlight used?
 
Only one way to know ... cut the filters open and inspect for any leakage gaps or not after an official ISO test is done. If filters with leakage have worse efficiency than the same ones without leakage, then you'd know the effect on efficiency. Bring lots of money! 🤑💰🤑


HAHA
Ok here we go...AGAIN...
Why bother to cut it open? Yeah, an autopsy is always cool, but it’s after death… and looking at “gaps” on a “winner” after its dead is meaningless. You want to know it's filtering capability "in situ"...as assembled … “alive” and flowing. You pick a current filter model in production (RANDOM SELECTION) and test for filtration, then compare it to the competition. DONE!
 
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HAHA
Ok here we go...AGAIN...
Why bother to cut it open? Yeah, an autopsy is always cool, but it’s after death… and looking at “gaps” on a “winner” after its dead is meaningless. You want to know it's filtering capability "in situ"...as assembled … “alive” and flowing. You pick a current filter model in production (RANDOM SELECTION) and test for filtration, then compare it to the competition. DONE!
You missed the whole logic of inspecting for leakage gaps after efficiency testing to see if the cause of a low test efficiency can be detected. If you tested 10 filters of the same brand and model, and 4 of the 10 had lower efficiency and were also the only ones with visible leak path gaps, then you could conclude the leakage effected the efficiency. Simple testing logic.
 
You missed the whole logic of inspecting for leakage gaps after efficiency testing to see if the cause of a low test efficiency can be detected. If you tested 10 filters of the same brand and model, and 4 of the 10 had lower efficiency and were also the only ones with visible leak path gaps, then you could conclude the leakage effected the efficiency. Simple testing logic.
Getting into the weeds here....This isn't about quality control of a specific filter.
Sure....you can drill down into a specific model and focus on variations of filtering efficency vs variations in gaps....etc.
That's a HUGE RABBIT HOLE. Basically, we want relevant statistical data that allows us to COMPARE the filtration performance capabilities of various brands across similar applications. That's IT! That's what ISO testing is all about...right? This isn't a research project on how variation in "gaps" ...whatever.....effect efficiency.
 
Getting into the weeds here....
Sure....you can drill down into a specific model and focus on variations in of filtering vs variations in gaps....etc.
That's a HUGE RABBIT HOLE. Basically, we want relevant statistical data that allows us to COMPARE the filtration performance capabilities of various brands across similar applications. That's IT! That's what ISO testing is all about...right? This isn't a research project on how variation in "gaps" ...whatever.....effect efficiency.
It was the burn test months ago on the anti drain valve now it is the flashlight.....:ROFLMAO:
 
Getting into the weeds here....This isn't about quality control of a specific filter.
Sure....you can drill down into a specific model and focus on variations of filtering efficency vs variations in gaps....etc.
That's a HUGE RABBIT HOLE. Basically, we want relevant statistical data that allows us to COMPARE the filtration performance capabilities of various brands across similar applications. That's IT! That's what ISO testing is all about...right? This isn't a research project on how variation in "gaps" ...whatever.....effect efficiency.
Well the comparison will be skewed if one of the filters had a faulty bracket (spring). If this is a production flaw with some bad, some good, no way to tell until the autopsy (much like rabies).
I’m still in the camp that thinks the flashlight test should be done with the filter intact. Drill some holes near the dome end then shine the flashlight in. Then if it’s good, disassemble the filter & see if the flashlight test fails. @ZeeOSix will disagree with me, but I think it’s a valid issue.
 
Getting into the weeds here....This isn't about quality control of a specific filter.
Sure....you can drill down into a specific model and focus on variations of filtering efficency vs variations in gaps....etc.
That's a HUGE RABBIT HOLE. Basically, we want relevant statistical data that allows us to COMPARE the filtration performance capabilities of various brands across similar applications. That's IT! That's what ISO testing is all about...right? This isn't a research project on how variation in "gaps" ...whatever.....effect efficiency.
You're deflecting and changing the focus of the conversation. The point is, if there's a gap where dirty oil can leak through, the only way to know if that gap leakage effects the efficiency is to correlate a lower than expected efficiency (ie, compared to a filter with no leakage) is to cut the tested filter open for a visual inspection to look for leakage paths. Unless you have Superman with X-ray vision working in the ISO efficiency lab, lol.
 
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It was the burn test months ago on the anti drain valve now it is the flashlight.....:ROFLMAO:
You don't think the burn test is a valid way to tell if an ADBV is silicone or not? :D Can you prove it's not, lol.
 
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You're deflecting and changing the ficus of the conversation. The point is, if there's a gap where dirty oil can leak through, rhe only way to know if that gap leakage effects the efficiency is to correlate a lower than expected efficiency (ie, compared to a filter with no leakage) is to cut the tested filter open for a visual inspection to look for leakage paths. Unless you have Superman with X-ray vision working in the ISO efficiency lab, lol.
You’re getting into quality control issues and there’s no evidence that they ( Fram Endurance for example) has one.
When people buy a filter they want to know it’s overall filtration capability compared to others based on standardized testing. That’s it.
 
I’m still in the camp that thinks the flashlight test should be done with the filter intact. Drill some holes near the dome end then shine the flashlight in. Then if it’s good, disassemble the filter & see if the flashlight test fails. @ZeeOSix will disagree with me, but I think it’s a valid issue.
It's already been shown that putting a lot of force on the leaf spring ears will not close the gap. The area of the leaf spring around the center tube will not deflect by putting force on the ears, it's too stiff in that area. If a gap is seen when the filter is inspected after cutting it open and a decent force is put on the ears, it will also have the same gap if assembled and never cut open.

Only way to have a good metal-to-metal seal is to have flat and smooth surfaces on both sides of the interface.
 
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You’re getting into quality control issues and there’s no evidence that they ( Fram Endurance for example) has one.

Stamping out a leaf spring that's ragged, and not flat in the sealing area is evidence of bad manufacturing and quality control, and maybe even back to design. Look at the difference in the leaf spring stamping quality between the Endurance (in the other thread) and the one on tbe OG Titanium in this thread. Big difference, and the one in this thread showed no light leaks.

When people buy a filter they want to know it’s overall filtration capability compared to others based on standardized testing. That’s it.
As I've pointed out multiple times, who knows if the actual filters used to determine the ISO efficiency rating had a gap and leaked or not. Could be they were not leakers at the time they were tested, and now the manufacturing quality has gone down and they do have leaky gaps as seen. Again, you'd have to conduct a controlled test program to verify if the gap effects the efficiency to any degree. It's simple testing protocol.
 
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Looks like we’re not going to resolve these issues because one is a matter of quality control and the other addresses standardized testing. Again, there is no evidence that Fram has an issue with quality control.
 
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Looks like we’re not going to resolve these issues because one is a matter of quality control and the other addresses standardized testing. Again, there is no evidence that Fram has an issue with quality control.
You don't think bad manufacturing and quality control that can cause dirty oil leakage can't have an effect on efficiency? 🙃 😆

Like said many times, nobody knows if the filters ISO tested were leakers or not. So you can not logically conclude that they were leakers and the efficiency wasn't effected, like you seem to think.
 
Another consideration for me is the lack of quality control/bad fit and finish of the Endurance for $12.99. I expect to get a premium filter and don’t mind paying more to actually get one. I’m not a big fan of the cheapening of the new Fram Ultra/titanium for their price either. Thanks to the c&p’s here we can try to keep up with the never ending filter changes. Another subject is what m+h has been doing to once great filters…..
 
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