So of the big three Honda, Nissan, & Toyota whose synthetic oils tend to be the best? I am particularly looking at a 0W20 oil. I recently picked up Redline 0W20 for $8 qt. Wondering if one of these oils would do just fine at a cheeper price.
OEM Japanese Synthetic Oils
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I'm no oil pro but from what i read and with my little research i have time for,Toyota seems to be the best of the three. Pricing i am not positive about but i believe it can be had for less than 8 bucks a quart.
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
So of the big three Honda, Nissan, & Toyota whose synthetic oils tend to be the best? I am particularly looking at a 0W20 oil. I recently picked up Redline 0W20 for $8 qt. Wondering if one of these oils would do just fine at a cheeper price.
Where did you get Redline oil for 8 dollars a quart from?
So of the big three Honda, Nissan, & Toyota whose synthetic oils tend to be the best? I am particularly looking at a 0W20 oil. I recently picked up Redline 0W20 for $8 qt. Wondering if one of these oils would do just fine at a cheeper price.
Where did you get Redline oil for 8 dollars a quart from?
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My vote is on Toyota, especially their 0w20..
Originally Posted By: 05Blazer
So of the big three Honda, Nissan, & Toyota whose synthetic oils tend to be the best?
I drive an Infiniti, but seeing the price of their Genuine Nissan Ester Oil (not much more than a fancy conventional) and the dealer's price for a conventional change (in the neighborhood of $70), I'm not too interested.
I don't know what Nissan uses for factory fill, but the local service department has a poster from Nissan/Infiniti Canada that indicates they use Mobil products, conventional and synthetic, for all their oil changes.
Besides, Nissan seems to be hanging onto 5w30, at least for the time being.
So of the big three Honda, Nissan, & Toyota whose synthetic oils tend to be the best?
I drive an Infiniti, but seeing the price of their Genuine Nissan Ester Oil (not much more than a fancy conventional) and the dealer's price for a conventional change (in the neighborhood of $70), I'm not too interested.
I don't know what Nissan uses for factory fill, but the local service department has a poster from Nissan/Infiniti Canada that indicates they use Mobil products, conventional and synthetic, for all their oil changes.
Besides, Nissan seems to be hanging onto 5w30, at least for the time being.
I don't think Nissan has jumped on the 0W-20 bandwagon yet.
But the other four Japanese OEMs; namely Toyota, Honda, Mazda and Subaru have their own 0W-20 brand.
The lightest is the EOM made Toyota 0W-20 with it's 216 VI.
Honda/Acura US use a CoP made 0W-20 with a 177 VI.
Both Mazda and Subaru use the Idemitsu 0W-20; 200 VI and it's about 10% heavier at operating temp's than the Toyota oil.
Red Line 0W-20 with it's 3.0cP HTHSV (166 VI) is really a light 30wt oil and consiquently is much heavier than all OTC 20wt oils. I would use this in any typical 30wt application.
My personal favorite of the Japanese 0W-20's is the Toyota oil particularly for winter use, it is the lightest oil for typical start-up temp's you can buy.
My second fav' is the Idemitsu 0W-20. If you want a more robust 20wt oil but still with a high VI, that would be my choice.
But the other four Japanese OEMs; namely Toyota, Honda, Mazda and Subaru have their own 0W-20 brand.
The lightest is the EOM made Toyota 0W-20 with it's 216 VI.
Honda/Acura US use a CoP made 0W-20 with a 177 VI.
Both Mazda and Subaru use the Idemitsu 0W-20; 200 VI and it's about 10% heavier at operating temp's than the Toyota oil.
Red Line 0W-20 with it's 3.0cP HTHSV (166 VI) is really a light 30wt oil and consiquently is much heavier than all OTC 20wt oils. I would use this in any typical 30wt application.
My personal favorite of the Japanese 0W-20's is the Toyota oil particularly for winter use, it is the lightest oil for typical start-up temp's you can buy.
My second fav' is the Idemitsu 0W-20. If you want a more robust 20wt oil but still with a high VI, that would be my choice.
CATERHAM, based on your last post, you believe the Idemitsu to be more robust than the Toyota oil? I've read much of your info on 0w-20 oil, but I want to make sure I understand what you mean by robust. Are you referring to film strength or the oils ability to last, additive-wise?
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Red Line 0W-20 with it's 3.0cP HTHSV (166 VI) is really a light 30wt oil and consiquently is much heavier than all OTC 20wt oils. I would use this in any typical 30wt application.
My Redline PDS lists the 0w20 as 2.7cP, more consistent with common 20wt oils. The 5w20 is 3.3cP, more consistent with 30wt. Where'd you get the 3.0cP number?
I know what you're saying when you refer to oddballs like Red Line 5w20 as "30wt" based on HTHS, but the definition of oil weights is based on KV100 and therefore oils like Red Line 5w30 are properly labeled. Its not "really a light 40wt" I think its more accurate to say "it acts like a 40wt under extreme conditions in the bearings".
Just a little friendly criticism as I think your posts, while knowledgeable, tend to confuse some less active members.
Quote:
My personal favorite of the Japanese 0W-20's is the Toyota oil particularly for winter use, it is the lightest oil for typical start-up temp's you can buy.
My second fav' is the Idemitsu 0W-20. If you want a more robust 20wt oil but still with a high VI, that would be my choice
Unfortunately the Idemitsu product is now only commonly available from Subaru (in the US, not sure about Canada), and its not labeled with an API starburst or performance level (SM or SN) so using it in something other than a Subaru opens up warranty concerns.
I know, I was hoping to use it in my Honda. I'm trying to get a PDS out of Subaru or Idemitsu with API info on it, but I'm not holding my breath.
Red Line 0W-20 with it's 3.0cP HTHSV (166 VI) is really a light 30wt oil and consiquently is much heavier than all OTC 20wt oils. I would use this in any typical 30wt application.
My Redline PDS lists the 0w20 as 2.7cP, more consistent with common 20wt oils. The 5w20 is 3.3cP, more consistent with 30wt. Where'd you get the 3.0cP number?
I know what you're saying when you refer to oddballs like Red Line 5w20 as "30wt" based on HTHS, but the definition of oil weights is based on KV100 and therefore oils like Red Line 5w30 are properly labeled. Its not "really a light 40wt" I think its more accurate to say "it acts like a 40wt under extreme conditions in the bearings".
Just a little friendly criticism as I think your posts, while knowledgeable, tend to confuse some less active members.
Quote:
My personal favorite of the Japanese 0W-20's is the Toyota oil particularly for winter use, it is the lightest oil for typical start-up temp's you can buy.
My second fav' is the Idemitsu 0W-20. If you want a more robust 20wt oil but still with a high VI, that would be my choice
Unfortunately the Idemitsu product is now only commonly available from Subaru (in the US, not sure about Canada), and its not labeled with an API starburst or performance level (SM or SN) so using it in something other than a Subaru opens up warranty concerns.
I know, I was hoping to use it in my Honda. I'm trying to get a PDS out of Subaru or Idemitsu with API info on it, but I'm not holding my breath.
Last edited:
The price of the Toyota 0W20 varies somewhat from dealer to dealer. My dealer sells it for $66 for a 12 qt case or $5.50 per qt. At that price, it's a steal.
Originally Posted By: 4ever4d
I'm no oil pro but from what i read and with my little research i have time for,Toyota seems to be the best of the three. Pricing i am not positive about but i believe it can be had for less than 8 bucks a quart.
A semi-local dealer has it on sale right now for $4.99/qt.
I cannot decide if I should get the Toyota 0w-20 or if I should spring for the Mobil 1 0w-20 which is almost the same price. The latter probably has better cleaning capabilities though for the 10k interval.
I'm no oil pro but from what i read and with my little research i have time for,Toyota seems to be the best of the three. Pricing i am not positive about but i believe it can be had for less than 8 bucks a quart.
A semi-local dealer has it on sale right now for $4.99/qt.
I cannot decide if I should get the Toyota 0w-20 or if I should spring for the Mobil 1 0w-20 which is almost the same price. The latter probably has better cleaning capabilities though for the 10k interval.
Originally Posted By: 72te27
CATERHAM, based on your last post, you believe the Idemitsu to be more robust than the Toyota oil? I've read much of your info on 0w-20 oil, but I want to make sure I understand what you mean by robust. Are you referring to film strength or the oils ability to last, additive-wise?
I've used both oils and the hot oil pressure is 10% higher with the Idemitsu oil so it has a higher HTHSV, perhaps as high as 2.7cP. That in conjunction with it's lower VI also makes it quite noticeably heavier on start-up even at room temperature.
CATERHAM, based on your last post, you believe the Idemitsu to be more robust than the Toyota oil? I've read much of your info on 0w-20 oil, but I want to make sure I understand what you mean by robust. Are you referring to film strength or the oils ability to last, additive-wise?
I've used both oils and the hot oil pressure is 10% higher with the Idemitsu oil so it has a higher HTHSV, perhaps as high as 2.7cP. That in conjunction with it's lower VI also makes it quite noticeably heavier on start-up even at room temperature.
Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Red Line 0W-20 with it's 3.0cP HTHSV (166 VI) is really a light 30wt oil and consiquently is much heavier than all OTC 20wt oils. I would use this in any typical 30wt application.
My Redline PDS lists the 0w20 as 2.7cP, more consistent with common 20wt oils. The 5w20 is 3.3cP, more consistent with 30wt. Where'd you get the 3.0cP number?
I know what you're saying when you refer to oddballs like Red Line 5w20 as "30wt" based on HTHS, but the definition of oil weights is based on KV100 and therefore oils like Red Line 5w30 are properly labeled. Its not "really a light 40wt" I think its more accurate to say "it acts like a 40wt under extreme conditions in the bearings".
Quote:
The Red Line 0W-20 has had it's HTHSV150 independently tested by a well regarded lab' and it came in at 3.0cP.
Furthermore on the actual Red Line 0W-20 bottle it states "Red Line 0W-20 provides more bearing viscosity than most petroleum 5w30s.....Formulated to suit the requirements for ACEA A3, and B3/B4".
The subject matter was discussed at length in the following post:
[URed Line]https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/2407923/[/URed Line]
Yes the old SAE grading system is largely kinematically based and they have been criticized for that. It does work okay more or less for many common oil chemistries but not for ester based oils like Red Line which tend to have very high HTHSVs compared to their KV100 spec's. Not surprisingly Red Line often suggests dropping a grade when switching to their oils.
Operational viscosity in an engine correlates with HTHSV and not with KV100, and not just under extreme (hot oil) conditions but at normal operating temp's as low as 70C. That's why HTHSV trumps KV100:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com:80/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2277249&page=1
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Red Line 0W-20 with it's 3.0cP HTHSV (166 VI) is really a light 30wt oil and consiquently is much heavier than all OTC 20wt oils. I would use this in any typical 30wt application.
My Redline PDS lists the 0w20 as 2.7cP, more consistent with common 20wt oils. The 5w20 is 3.3cP, more consistent with 30wt. Where'd you get the 3.0cP number?
I know what you're saying when you refer to oddballs like Red Line 5w20 as "30wt" based on HTHS, but the definition of oil weights is based on KV100 and therefore oils like Red Line 5w30 are properly labeled. Its not "really a light 40wt" I think its more accurate to say "it acts like a 40wt under extreme conditions in the bearings".
Quote:
The Red Line 0W-20 has had it's HTHSV150 independently tested by a well regarded lab' and it came in at 3.0cP.
Furthermore on the actual Red Line 0W-20 bottle it states "Red Line 0W-20 provides more bearing viscosity than most petroleum 5w30s.....Formulated to suit the requirements for ACEA A3, and B3/B4".
The subject matter was discussed at length in the following post:
[URed Line]https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/posts/2407923/[/URed Line]
Yes the old SAE grading system is largely kinematically based and they have been criticized for that. It does work okay more or less for many common oil chemistries but not for ester based oils like Red Line which tend to have very high HTHSVs compared to their KV100 spec's. Not surprisingly Red Line often suggests dropping a grade when switching to their oils.
Operational viscosity in an engine correlates with HTHSV and not with KV100, and not just under extreme (hot oil) conditions but at normal operating temp's as low as 70C. That's why HTHSV trumps KV100:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com:80/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2277249&page=1
Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Quote:
My personal favorite of the Japanese 0W-20's is the Toyota oil particularly for winter use, it is the lightest oil for typical start-up temp's you can buy.
My second fav' is the Idemitsu 0W-20. If you want a more robust 20wt oil but still with a high VI, that would be my choice
Unfortunately the Idemitsu product is now only commonly available from Subaru (in the US, not sure about Canada), and its not labeled with an API starburst or performance level (SM or SN) so using it in something other than a Subaru opens up warranty concerns.
I know, I was hoping to use it in my Honda. I'm trying to get a PDS out of Subaru or Idemitsu with API info on it, but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm sure you've seen the Dyson VOA of the original Idemitsu made Honda 0W-20; if nor here it is:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/honda-0w20-red-line-0w20-rli-bio-syn-0w20.117108/
In the States they make the Subaru and Mazda 0W-20 and the 0W-20 for Honda/Acura in Canada. On the Canadian bottle is says "...exceed API SM/SL performance and ILSAC GF-4."
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Quote:
My personal favorite of the Japanese 0W-20's is the Toyota oil particularly for winter use, it is the lightest oil for typical start-up temp's you can buy.
My second fav' is the Idemitsu 0W-20. If you want a more robust 20wt oil but still with a high VI, that would be my choice
Unfortunately the Idemitsu product is now only commonly available from Subaru (in the US, not sure about Canada), and its not labeled with an API starburst or performance level (SM or SN) so using it in something other than a Subaru opens up warranty concerns.
I know, I was hoping to use it in my Honda. I'm trying to get a PDS out of Subaru or Idemitsu with API info on it, but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm sure you've seen the Dyson VOA of the original Idemitsu made Honda 0W-20; if nor here it is:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/honda-0w20-red-line-0w20-rli-bio-syn-0w20.117108/
In the States they make the Subaru and Mazda 0W-20 and the 0W-20 for Honda/Acura in Canada. On the Canadian bottle is says "...exceed API SM/SL performance and ILSAC GF-4."
For what nearly everyone on this site uses motor oil for, all will do a comparable job. If you can find something on sale for $4.50-$5.00/qt then buy it. Otherwise, you're wasting money.
Originally Posted By: Indydriver
For what nearly everyone on this site uses motor oil for, all will do a comparable job. If you can find something on sale for $4.50-$5.00/qt then buy it. Otherwise, you're wasting money.
I don't entirely disagree with you but you might have a different opinion if you had an oil pressure gauge in you vehicles.
The first time I ran the Toyota 0W-20 I was shocked at how low the oil pressure was on start-up at room temperature. When I switched to the Idemitsu 0W-20 I was disappointed that is was quite a bit heavier although it is likely lighter than ever other 20wt oil available. Without an OP gauge I would have been totally blind to the difference.
For what nearly everyone on this site uses motor oil for, all will do a comparable job. If you can find something on sale for $4.50-$5.00/qt then buy it. Otherwise, you're wasting money.
I don't entirely disagree with you but you might have a different opinion if you had an oil pressure gauge in you vehicles.
The first time I ran the Toyota 0W-20 I was shocked at how low the oil pressure was on start-up at room temperature. When I switched to the Idemitsu 0W-20 I was disappointed that is was quite a bit heavier although it is likely lighter than ever other 20wt oil available. Without an OP gauge I would have been totally blind to the difference.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Quote:
My personal favorite of the Japanese 0W-20's is the Toyota oil particularly for winter use, it is the lightest oil for typical start-up temp's you can buy.
My second fav' is the Idemitsu 0W-20. If you want a more robust 20wt oil but still with a high VI, that would be my choice
Unfortunately the Idemitsu product is now only commonly available from Subaru (in the US, not sure about Canada), and its not labeled with an API starburst or performance level (SM or SN) so using it in something other than a Subaru opens up warranty concerns.
I know, I was hoping to use it in my Honda. I'm trying to get a PDS out of Subaru or Idemitsu with API info on it, but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm sure you've seen the Dyson VOA of the original Idemitsu made Honda 0W-20; if nor here it is:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/honda-0w20-red-line-0w20-rli-bio-syn-0w20.117108/
In the States they make the Subaru and Mazda 0W-20 and the 0W-20 for Honda/Acura in Canada. On the Canadian bottle is says "...exceed API SM/SL performance and ILSAC GF-4."
The Subaru Idemitsu oil only recently got the API label on the bottle. The earlier versions didn't list it.
-Dennis
Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Quote:
My personal favorite of the Japanese 0W-20's is the Toyota oil particularly for winter use, it is the lightest oil for typical start-up temp's you can buy.
My second fav' is the Idemitsu 0W-20. If you want a more robust 20wt oil but still with a high VI, that would be my choice
Unfortunately the Idemitsu product is now only commonly available from Subaru (in the US, not sure about Canada), and its not labeled with an API starburst or performance level (SM or SN) so using it in something other than a Subaru opens up warranty concerns.
I know, I was hoping to use it in my Honda. I'm trying to get a PDS out of Subaru or Idemitsu with API info on it, but I'm not holding my breath.
I'm sure you've seen the Dyson VOA of the original Idemitsu made Honda 0W-20; if nor here it is:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/honda-0w20-red-line-0w20-rli-bio-syn-0w20.117108/
In the States they make the Subaru and Mazda 0W-20 and the 0W-20 for Honda/Acura in Canada. On the Canadian bottle is says "...exceed API SM/SL performance and ILSAC GF-4."
The Subaru Idemitsu oil only recently got the API label on the bottle. The earlier versions didn't list it.
-Dennis
CATERHAM;
Do you (or anyone else) know the (approximate) group 4/5 basestock contents of either the TOY, or Idemitsu 0W-20s??
(I don't remember if this was ever discussed before, so please excuse me it it has been.
)
Do you (or anyone else) know the (approximate) group 4/5 basestock contents of either the TOY, or Idemitsu 0W-20s??
(I don't remember if this was ever discussed before, so please excuse me it it has been.
I'm sure they're both predominately GP III based.
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