A25A FXS oil

[Sacredheals]

I am trying to avoid the ring stick issue on Toyota engines and keep it as clean as possible... I know for the most part any HPL oil works but I was wondering if any of the experts want to weigh in...

I did message David and he said the Supercar oil would be fine, which I know is basically just a Euro oil at the end of the day which I was picking between the 0W30 and 0W40 for higher HTHS ... I was wondering if there would be any benefit of running say the 5W30 or 10W30 Euro no VII or even another series of their oil? My biggest concern is engine cleanliness especially piston ring cleanliness... I've been doing 3K intervals with Mobil 1 Full Synthetic 0w40 recently and it's been doing fine but I know there is better than that with how easy that oil shears. I also like the Valvoline Restore and Protect but I wish it came in a thicker 5W40 weight to account for shear.

Edit: For more info, I can drive long distance and many miles a LOT, I rarely do short distance driving, and the lowest the temp gets when I drive is right about at the 0F mark.. So using heavier oils is not a concern for me at all.

 

[6.7 CTD]

I run HPL Premium Plus 0w30 in our 2022 AWD Camry 2.5L. I typically run OCI’s around 7k miles. About 62k on the clock now. Has been getting HPL for about 22k miles. I’ve run 5w30 HPL NO VII in this car as well. I personally feel the HTHS of 3.0 (0w30 Premium Plus) is more than adequate for this engine, even with spirited driving (as spirited as it can get for a 4-cyl Camry). Are there cheaper options that would suffice as well? For sure. Just for reference, I picked this car up with 40k on it, and the history showed10k OCI’s with dealer bulk.

 

[Sacredheals]

I run HPL Premium Plus 0w30 in our 2022 AWD Camry 2.5L. I typically run OCI’s around 7k miles. About 62k on the clock now. Has been getting HPL for about 22k miles. I’ve run 5w30 HPL NO VII in this car as well. I personally feel the HTHS of 3.0 (0w30 Premium Plus) is more than adequate for this engine, even with spirited driving (as spirited as it can get for a 4-cyl Camry). Are there cheaper options that would suffice as well? For sure. Just for reference, I picked this car up with 40k on it, and the history showed10k OCI’s with dealer bulk.

What makes you choose the Premium Plus over the no VII? Just the better cold flow?

 

[Sacredheals]

That is not a concern. Years ago perhaps, but today's formulation has been shown on here and elsewhere to be using VII that are highly shear resistant. I use it in my old 1MZ-FE with gear driven camshafts and I do not see this problem. Exxon-Mobil does not use cheap VM.

The oil has multiple approvals that require stay-in-grade performance. It is one of the best oils available anywhere and is inexpensive at Walmart.

Yeah I also want to support HPL for being a good up front company. I don't think Mobil 1 will miss my 20 dollars lol

 

[buster]

Yeah I am trying to stick to the highest HTHS possible for the piston rings, I don't want any issues with ring deposits so having the higher HTHS should help with that. I am sure at the end of the day any HPL oil works I am just trying to figure out exactly the differences between all their oils since they don't do the best job on the website explaining that.

HT/HS doesn't really help with piston deposits. For piston deposits you need very strong oxidation resistance, good solvency and detergents to keep rings clean. Most important is the overall balanced formulation. Amsoil needed a dewpoint-controlled test cell to get it right. It's not that simple. The oil must be able to handle the elevated temps in the ring area which are very high.

 

[GenSan]

I've tried the following in that engine: Idemitsu, Ravenol, Pennzoil, Amsoil, Valvoline Restore and Protect, and Mobil 1. Everything from 0w-16 to 0w-30. What I learned after many UOA is that this engine in my 2024 Rav4 Prime XSE had fuel dilution so I needed to change oil out earlier than manufacturer recommended 10k miles. Every 3-5k miles was best for it and the wear metals were below universal averages.

 

[Sacredheals]

HT/HS doesn't really help with piston deposits. For piston deposits you need very strong oxidation resistance, good solvency and detergents to keep rings clean. Most important is the overall balanced formulation. Amsoil needed a dewpoint-controlled test cell to get it right. It's not that simple. The oil must be able to handle the elevated temps in the ring area which are very high.

I thought HTHS helped with it to not thin out and burn or something.. Either way yeah I know oxidation is a big factor which as far as I know HPL is practically unbeaten with that.

 

[GI_GRIFF]

Yeah I am trying to stick to the highest HTHS possible for the piston rings,

Nothing wrong with what you are doing. A 0W or 5W-30 Euro oil with the ACEA C3 rating has a HTHS of >3.5. Another thing to notice is that usually (not always) your 0W-30 oils have a higher PAO content than the 5W-30 oils. Restore and Protect 5W-30 HTHS is 3.2 . Anyhow, that's what I have for thoughts. Simplest would-be Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30 and use it forevermore, order direct from them which also assures you are getting the real stuff. Stay away from the 40 weights. Take care, Joel

 

[Sacredheals]

Nothing wrong with what you are doing. A 0W or 5W-30 Euro oil with the ACEA C3 rating has a HTHS of >3.5. Another thing to notice is that usually (not always) your 0W-30 oils have a higher PAO content than the 5W-30 oils. Restore and Protect 5W-30 HTHS is 3.2 . Anyhow, that's what I have for thoughts. Simplest would-be Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30 and use it forevermore, order direct from them which also assures you are getting the real stuff. Stay away from the 40 weights. Take care, Joel

Yeah it's still hard to beat short intervals with a sub 30 dollar oil... I appreciate the info

 

[scrllock]

Higher HTHS is good but has diminishing returns, especially in an engine with such low load (NA/hybrid toyota). Like @buster said, overall formulation is what matters.

What I was alluding to is that if your engine is pretty clean (minimal oil consumption means your control rings are still doing well), doing regular changes at a good interval with flagship shelf products (0w40 FS, PUP, Valvoline Restore and Protect, etc.) will keep it that way. Best way to reduce oxidation and contamination is always just to replace the fluid.

 

[Sacredheals]

Higher HTHS is good but has diminishing returns, especially in an engine with such low load (NA/hybrid toyota). Like @buster said, overall formulation is what matters.

What I was alluding to is that if your engine is pretty clean (minimal oil consumption means your control rings are still doing well), doing regular changes at a good interval with flagship shelf products (0w40 FS, PUP, Valvoline Restore and Protect , etc.) will keep it that way. Best way to reduce oxidation and contamination is always just to replace the fluid.

To be fair these hybrid's operate at high throttle 24/7 so the load isn't tiny.
It's been a multi year long debate with this car to do cheaper oil like Valvoline Restore and Protect for 2500-3K miles or 5000-7500 with HPL

 

[GI_GRIFF]

It's been a multi year long debate with this car to do cheaper oil like Valvoline Restore and Protect for 2500-3K miles or 5000-7500 with HPL

You could split the difference and take the Valvoline Restore and Protect up to 5000-mile intervals. I think that would be safe. You could probably run the HPL up to 10,000 safely, but don't take my word for it. Contact your HPL rep, they would know for sure.

 

[6.7 CTD]

What makes you choose the P+ over the no VII? Just the better cold flow?

I do not require the low viscosity of a 0w oil; I specifically selected the premium plus due to its HTHS. In my opinion, an oil with an HTHS of 3.5 or greater is not necessary for this engine. If I had an engine with significant fuel dilution or a turbo, I would likely choose the 5w30 NO VII or a 40w. However, based on my used oil analysis results, fuel dilution is not a significant concern, and since the engine is naturally aspirated, this oil checks all of the boxes for me.

 

[dkryan]

To be fair these hybrid's operate at high throttle 24/7 so the load isn't tiny.
It's been a multi year long debate with this car to do cheaper oil like Valvoline Restore and Protect for 2500-3K miles or 5000-7500 with HPL

Kindly explain the bolded statement.

You make it sound like the vehicle is sitting on a dyno 24 hours per day, seven days per week. At wide open throttle.

As for your second sentence, you are way overthinking this!

“A multi-year long debate” over which motor oil to use in a hybrid vehicle with no turbo and both port and direct fuel injection…………?

Yes, I know it’s BITOG, but you need to find a constructive hobby.

I have that hybrid system and engine in a 2023 Highlander. I use HPL Premium Plus PCMO in 5w-30 flavor and run it for a few miles under 10k between oil changes. Short trips, long trips, summer, winter, yep! Check all the boxes.

HPL is the only oil I would use for 10k OCIs because I don’t have to sit around over a multi-year basis agonizing over HTHS, shearing, fuel dilution, oxidation, etc.

5k OCIs? Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w-30 as a first choice; Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30 as a close second.

And maybe consider having a used oil analysis performed by a quality lab to get the affirmation you obviously need to be certain your A25A-FXS is not about to implode.

 

[scrllock]

To be fair these hybrid's operate at high throttle 24/7 so the load isn't tiny.
It's been a multi year long debate with this car to do cheaper oil like Valvoline Restore and Protect for 2500-3K miles or 5000-7500 with HPL

Throttle is irrelevant, load is much lower without boost and and the e-motor providing a decent amount of torque... Toyota's schedule for severe service is 5k, you're way over-thinking this. Buy the cheaper product, spend the difference on a used oil analysis and see if you can extend or if it has issues.

 

[Sacredheals]

Kindly explain the bolded statement.

You make it sound like the vehicle is sitting on a dyno 24 hours per day, seven days per week. At wide open throttle.

As for your second sentence, you are way overthinking this!

“A multi-year long debate” over which motor oil to use in a hybrid vehicle with no turbo and both port and direct fuel injection…………?

Yes, I know it’s BITOG, but you need to find a constructive hobby.

I have that hybrid system and engine in a 2023 Highlander. I use HPL Premium Plus PCMO in 5w-30 flavor and run it for a few miles under 10k between oil changes. Short trips, long trips, summer, winter, yep! Check all the boxes.

HPL is the only oil I would use for 10k OCIs because I don’t have to sit around over a multi-year basis agonizing over HTHS, shearing, fuel dilution, oxidation, etc.

5k OCIs? Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w-30 as a first choice; Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30 as a close second.

And maybe consider having a used oil analysis performed by a quality lab to get the affirmation you obviously need to be certain your A25A-FXS is not about to implode.

Newer Toyota's automatically run at high throttle which is more efficient on gas mileage, they just use any extra throttle that isn't being used to speed up the car to charge the battery. Same thing I did to get 80+ MPG in my gutted out Saturn years ago.

 

[scrllock]

Newer Toyota's automatically run at high throttle which is more efficient on gas mileage, they just use any extra throttle that isn't being used to speed up the car to charge the battery. Same thing I did to get 80+ MPG in my gutted out Saturn years ago.

I think you're confusing throttle and lambda.

 

[ATex7239]

Lot of misconceptions which are leading to misguided conclusions in this thread

 

[MurkyAsparagus]

Newer Toyota's automatically run at high throttle which is more efficient on gas mileage, they just use any extra throttle that isn't being used to speed up the car to charge the battery. Same thing I did to get 80+ MPG in my gutted out Saturn years ago.

These engines don’t run at high throttle. My engine only runs about 80% on the highway when there’s hill and only about 50% of the time in the city.

There’s a couple really good videos on YouTube over this engine, I’d recommend watching them as a refresher.

 

[Locomotive Breath]

These engines run quite well in 0w16 oil. If you want to keep the ring lands clean, I would suggest Valvoline Restore and Protect 0w20. HTHS affects bearings and cam lobes, not rings. The motor generators take some of the stress off the ICE and these engines run cool and only about 50% of the time, so no need for a thick oil. I plan to switch to Valvoline Restore and Protect 0w20 in both my 2024 Prius and 2025 Grand Highlander HEV. I will confirm with oil analysis how the Valvoline Restore and Protect does compared to TGMO 0w16 that I’ve been running.

 

[Sacredheals]

These engines don’t run at high throttle. My engine only runs about 80% on the highway when there’s hill and only about 50% of the time in the city.

There’s a couple really good videos on YouTube over this engine, I’d recommend watching them as a refresher.

I may, but I thought they did the hypermiling technique of being at roughly 80-90% throttle under load