Odyssey first oil change (maintaining Hondas- Ugh)
- Thread starter JHZR2
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Apparently Honda is still stuck on punishing their owners for doing their own oil changes. My old 95 Accord was pretty bad when compared to my prior domestic cars. That's when I started to question the "superiority" of Japanese makes. Looks like things did not change in 20 years.
It's actually very easy to change the oil on my Civic LX. I'm able to do it without dripping on any subframe or suspension parts or on the driveway. On the R18A1, the filter is almost straight up and down, on the front-facing side of the engine. The only thing that only slightly limits access is a metal stone shield in front of the filter. That just makes it hard to wrap a hand around it, but I can get either the strap-type or end-type filter wrench on it. The plug is on the back-facing side of the pan, so with the car on ramps, it drains the pan very well.
Now the Civic SI of the same year model, with the 2.0L engine, I understand has the filter in a very difficult-to-reach location (horizontal, back side of the block), and I'm kind of glad I don't have that engine.
I was surprised by how easy it was to change the manual transmission fluid in my Civic LX as well. Some dripped onto the subframe, but it was easy to clean up before it hit the ground. I wouldn't have dropped any at all on the driveway if the Harbor Freight transfer pump I was using, hadn't decided to come apart.
One tip that has always worked for me, that I don't often see in how-to guides: Always change the filter first, before draining the pan. I don't have a technical reason for it; I just want to avoid dropping the filter into a bucket of hot oil.
Now the Civic SI of the same year model, with the 2.0L engine, I understand has the filter in a very difficult-to-reach location (horizontal, back side of the block), and I'm kind of glad I don't have that engine.
I was surprised by how easy it was to change the manual transmission fluid in my Civic LX as well. Some dripped onto the subframe, but it was easy to clean up before it hit the ground. I wouldn't have dropped any at all on the driveway if the Harbor Freight transfer pump I was using, hadn't decided to come apart.
One tip that has always worked for me, that I don't often see in how-to guides: Always change the filter first, before draining the pan. I don't have a technical reason for it; I just want to avoid dropping the filter into a bucket of hot oil.
I sort of chuckled at this thread. Our Hondas are, by a long shot, the easiest vehicles to maintain that we've owned. Of course, one of the benefits of driving vehicles that BITOGers love to hate (SUVs) is I don't need ramps for anything. I find the filter location pretty easy to access. Sure, some oil runs down on the crossmember. It takes about 10 seconds to wipe it clean after you're done. The oil fill hole is pretty easy to get to. So you need a funnel...I use a funnel on everything I've owned anyway, even with top-side fill holes. I don't see the difference here.
Does Honda give you a transmission drain plug and dipstick on that van? If not, shame on them, because that's long been something I've appreciated. With our former Toyota, you have to have a factory computer diagnostic tool to read the transmission level. Really? With our former domestics, you get to bathe in the transmission fluid you're replacing, because they apparently couldn't find it in the budget to use a drain plug. Really?
Apparently I just didn't own the "right" cars before owning Hondas. The two Hondas we have are a breeze compared to the stuff we had before.
Does Honda give you a transmission drain plug and dipstick on that van? If not, shame on them, because that's long been something I've appreciated. With our former Toyota, you have to have a factory computer diagnostic tool to read the transmission level. Really? With our former domestics, you get to bathe in the transmission fluid you're replacing, because they apparently couldn't find it in the budget to use a drain plug. Really?
Apparently I just didn't own the "right" cars before owning Hondas. The two Hondas we have are a breeze compared to the stuff we had before.
The Odyssey is not difficult per se (I recently did the first change on our new 2015), it is however more difficult and messier than a great many other vehicles. These upside-down vertically mounted filters (this Odyssey or the cartridge abortions on Toyotas) are a PITA compared to top-loading canisters or side mounted spin on filters. The Odyssey's awkward location is just the cherry on top. OPs observations about it are spot-on and certainly not an indication of lack of experience or ability
jeff
jeff
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Looks pretty easy to me.
Some filters are mounted in spots where you have a high chance of burning yourself on the hot exhaust.
Some filters are mounted in spots where you have a high chance of burning yourself on the hot exhaust.
My 2008 Odyssey had the exact setup. I didn't find it bad, but I couldn't squeeze under it without jacking the front slightly by the front/center subframe. Did you notice any dampness at the bottom of the bellhousing? Our Ody 3.5L had a very tiny amount of what appeared to be rear main seal leakage from new. I would wipe the oil stain every oil change and one would be there waiting for me on next OCI. Never enough to drip, so I left it.
Our 2013 Grand Caravan is easier with the top load cartridge filter and I can reach the drain plug w/out having to lift the front-end.
Our 2013 Grand Caravan is easier with the top load cartridge filter and I can reach the drain plug w/out having to lift the front-end.
In my opinion, whether or not you have to use a funnel during an oil change is not what makes something easy to maintain or not. There's a bigger picture that is looking increasingly bleak across the industry (for DIYers).
Nearly all manufacturers have gone to "sealed" transmissions now, but this Odyssey still allows the OP to change his own fluid (though I do understand the dipstick is now super small and hard to see). Some manufacturers have gone to hiding oil fill caps and removing oil dipsticks, but this Odyssey allows the OP to change his own oil. Many engines have PCV valves hidden under intake manifolds or exhaust manifolds, but this 3.5L has it right on the front cam cover, allowing for super easy access for cleaning and replacement.
With due respect to the OP, whether or not an oil filter drips on a cross member is not in my definition of "easy to maintain". I look at the complete package, and decide how much trouble the OEM has gone to keep me out of the fluid sumps. Sure, if I had my druthers, I guess I'd prefer to not have to bring an extra rag down under the engine. But in the grand scheme of things, I prefer this maintenance model (where the DIYer has something to do) to the other (where you almost have to bring it to the dealer for maintenance).
If Honda eventually moves to the same maintenance model as the rest of the industry, and starts making their transmissions "sealed" (and other similar measures), that'll remove one of their biggest distinguishing features for me -- that I can maintain and sustain the vehicle myself, in my garage, with my tools. Without the provisions for DIYers to keep the vehicle going themselves, they become more like everyone else in that regard.
Nearly all manufacturers have gone to "sealed" transmissions now, but this Odyssey still allows the OP to change his own fluid (though I do understand the dipstick is now super small and hard to see). Some manufacturers have gone to hiding oil fill caps and removing oil dipsticks, but this Odyssey allows the OP to change his own oil. Many engines have PCV valves hidden under intake manifolds or exhaust manifolds, but this 3.5L has it right on the front cam cover, allowing for super easy access for cleaning and replacement.
With due respect to the OP, whether or not an oil filter drips on a cross member is not in my definition of "easy to maintain". I look at the complete package, and decide how much trouble the OEM has gone to keep me out of the fluid sumps. Sure, if I had my druthers, I guess I'd prefer to not have to bring an extra rag down under the engine. But in the grand scheme of things, I prefer this maintenance model (where the DIYer has something to do) to the other (where you almost have to bring it to the dealer for maintenance).
If Honda eventually moves to the same maintenance model as the rest of the industry, and starts making their transmissions "sealed" (and other similar measures), that'll remove one of their biggest distinguishing features for me -- that I can maintain and sustain the vehicle myself, in my garage, with my tools. Without the provisions for DIYers to keep the vehicle going themselves, they become more like everyone else in that regard.
I was surprised to find that my Honda owner's manual explains how to change the oil and filter and also how to change light bulbs. It may be one of the last cars, though, to not have The Big Black Plastic Thing under the hood, blocking all access to everything. I've long thought manufacturers might as well stop putting their logo on that plastic cover, and just emboss the word "NO" on it.
Originally Posted By: Uregina09
Pop drops the mic and leaves the stage. Boom!
Please don't encourage him
This thread is like a Rorschach test. The OP didn't say the Odyssey oil change was hard or difficult. He noted several annoyances and inconveniences, each of which is undeniably accurate. He explicitly states "Keep in mind I'm used to Euro vehicles with accessible drain plugs and cartridge filters up top to easily pull out and cleanly change." That is, he's making relative observations. This says nothing about his mechanical aptitude, abilities, or experience.
He qualifies his remarks at the end of the OP again: "I forgot how I dislike some maintenance jobs on Hondas, and how I dislike V type engines. Nothing terrible, just some awkward design approaches that add a bit of hassle." (emphasis mine) Again reiterating that he's not saying this is a "difficult" job, just a hassle relative to easier implementations.
jeff
Pop drops the mic and leaves the stage. Boom!
Please don't encourage him
This thread is like a Rorschach test. The OP didn't say the Odyssey oil change was hard or difficult. He noted several annoyances and inconveniences, each of which is undeniably accurate. He explicitly states "Keep in mind I'm used to Euro vehicles with accessible drain plugs and cartridge filters up top to easily pull out and cleanly change." That is, he's making relative observations. This says nothing about his mechanical aptitude, abilities, or experience.
He qualifies his remarks at the end of the OP again: "I forgot how I dislike some maintenance jobs on Hondas, and how I dislike V type engines. Nothing terrible, just some awkward design approaches that add a bit of hassle." (emphasis mine) Again reiterating that he's not saying this is a "difficult" job, just a hassle relative to easier implementations.
jeff
That Honda is a piece of cake to change the oil.
Don't remove the drain plug until the engine has had a change to cool a bit.
Don't drop the plug then you won't have to fish it out.
Use pump pliers on the filter... one size does fit all (learned that decades ago)
Don't remove the drain plug until the engine has had a change to cool a bit.
Don't drop the plug then you won't have to fish it out.
Use pump pliers on the filter... one size does fit all (learned that decades ago)
Did you measure the threads depth in the pan? Does the new plug provide full thread contact?
Wow JHZR2, That's so sad. For a little less money, you could have had a easy to service Dodge Grand Caravan. Every thing is on top including the filter. Easy-peasy...
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: Uregina09
Pop drops the mic and leaves the stage. Boom!
Please don't encourage him
This thread is like a Rorschach test. The OP didn't say the Odyssey oil change was hard or difficult. He noted several annoyances and inconveniences, each of which is undeniably accurate. He explicitly states "Keep in mind I'm used to Euro vehicles with accessible drain plugs and cartridge filters up top to easily pull out and cleanly change." That is, he's making relative observations. This says nothing about his mechanical aptitude, abilities, or experience.
He qualifies his remarks at the end of the OP again: "I forgot how I dislike some maintenance jobs on Hondas, and how I dislike V type engines. Nothing terrible, just some awkward design approaches that add a bit of hassle." (emphasis mine) Again reiterating that he's not saying this is a "difficult" job, just a hassle relative to easier implementations.
jeff
Comprehension lives!!!
Thank goodness someone gets it.
Nothing is overwhelmingly difficult. I've done far more involved work in the driveway/garage on my back before.
It's just some nagging items that are marginally annoying, especially given (a) the size and expanse of the van, and (b) compared to other vehicles in used to servicing.
Originally Posted By: Uregina09
Pop drops the mic and leaves the stage. Boom!
Please don't encourage him
This thread is like a Rorschach test. The OP didn't say the Odyssey oil change was hard or difficult. He noted several annoyances and inconveniences, each of which is undeniably accurate. He explicitly states "Keep in mind I'm used to Euro vehicles with accessible drain plugs and cartridge filters up top to easily pull out and cleanly change." That is, he's making relative observations. This says nothing about his mechanical aptitude, abilities, or experience.
He qualifies his remarks at the end of the OP again: "I forgot how I dislike some maintenance jobs on Hondas, and how I dislike V type engines. Nothing terrible, just some awkward design approaches that add a bit of hassle." (emphasis mine) Again reiterating that he's not saying this is a "difficult" job, just a hassle relative to easier implementations.
jeff
Comprehension lives!!!
Thank goodness someone gets it.
Nothing is overwhelmingly difficult. I've done far more involved work in the driveway/garage on my back before.
It's just some nagging items that are marginally annoying, especially given (a) the size and expanse of the van, and (b) compared to other vehicles in used to servicing.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Oldmoparguy1
Wow JHZR2, That's so sad. For a little less money, you could have had a easy to service Dodge Grand Caravan. Every thing is on top including the filter. Easy-peasy...
Perhaps. The caravan topside is well laid out. The things were that my wife didn't like the plastic "tray" lining the ceiling, but primarily that we were right place right time and got a good deal. I wasn't able to swing superior deals on new T&Cs. The odyssey and T&C were equivalently high on the top of our ranking list of vans.
Wow JHZR2, That's so sad. For a little less money, you could have had a easy to service Dodge Grand Caravan. Every thing is on top including the filter. Easy-peasy...
Perhaps. The caravan topside is well laid out. The things were that my wife didn't like the plastic "tray" lining the ceiling, but primarily that we were right place right time and got a good deal. I wasn't able to swing superior deals on new T&Cs. The odyssey and T&C were equivalently high on the top of our ranking list of vans.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Apparently Honda is still stuck on punishing their owners for doing their own oil changes. My old 95 Accord was pretty bad when compared to my prior domestic cars. That's when I started to question the "superiority" of Japanese makes. Looks like things did not change in 20 years.
We owned an Accord of the same generation, a '97, as well as two of the generation that followed, a '99 and an '02 and oil changes were and are a piece of cake.
Honda's placement of the oil filter on the firewall side of the engine dates back to at least the '84-'87 generation of Civic.
We owned two '86 Civic Wagons, so I speak from experience.
You do have to elevate the car to get under it.
When I was younger, skinnier and in better shape, I'd just drive the driver's side wheel up onto a length of 2X8 I kept for the purpose and wriggle myself far enough underneath to get to the oil filter.
I did the same for the first oil change on my BMW to get to the drain plug, although the drain plug is located on the passenger side. Suffice it to say that once was enough for this with the very low BMW and I bought a set of Rhino Ramps, which make most oil changes really easy. The BMW does have its oil filter located up top, but reinstallation can be a PITA, since you have to be very careful with the cap, through bolt and washers lest you end up with a pretty massive leak.
Guess how I know this.
Apparently Honda is still stuck on punishing their owners for doing their own oil changes. My old 95 Accord was pretty bad when compared to my prior domestic cars. That's when I started to question the "superiority" of Japanese makes. Looks like things did not change in 20 years.
We owned an Accord of the same generation, a '97, as well as two of the generation that followed, a '99 and an '02 and oil changes were and are a piece of cake.
Honda's placement of the oil filter on the firewall side of the engine dates back to at least the '84-'87 generation of Civic.
We owned two '86 Civic Wagons, so I speak from experience.
You do have to elevate the car to get under it.
When I was younger, skinnier and in better shape, I'd just drive the driver's side wheel up onto a length of 2X8 I kept for the purpose and wriggle myself far enough underneath to get to the oil filter.
I did the same for the first oil change on my BMW to get to the drain plug, although the drain plug is located on the passenger side. Suffice it to say that once was enough for this with the very low BMW and I bought a set of Rhino Ramps, which make most oil changes really easy. The BMW does have its oil filter located up top, but reinstallation can be a PITA, since you have to be very careful with the cap, through bolt and washers lest you end up with a pretty massive leak.
Guess how I know this.
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: Uregina09
Pop drops the mic and leaves the stage. Boom!
Please don't encourage him
jeff
Not dropped lol more like threw the mic at JHZR2!
Originally Posted By: Uregina09
Pop drops the mic and leaves the stage. Boom!
Please don't encourage him
jeff
Not dropped lol more like threw the mic at JHZR2!
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: spasm3
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: Uregina09
Pop drops the mic and leaves the stage. Boom!
Please don't encourage him
jeff
Not dropped lol more like threw the mic at JHZR2!
Perhaps your reading comprehension is as poor as Pop's...
Originally Posted By: greenjp
Originally Posted By: Uregina09
Pop drops the mic and leaves the stage. Boom!
Please don't encourage him
jeff
Not dropped lol more like threw the mic at JHZR2!
Perhaps your reading comprehension is as poor as Pop's...
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