NRA Basic Pistol Course

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Remember that it's the idea of concealed carry that is drawing many of these first time shooters into these type of basic pistol courses. While I agree that 4" accuracy at 10' is a very low standard, it can be achieved with minimal practice. The fact so many fail it does not mean it should be made easier. Especially when we are talking about shooting in a self defense scenario.

This is becoming a major problem with education in general in this country. If the scores are bad, then make the test easier. Or else grade everyone on a Bell Curve.

Regardless if it's citizens carrying guns, SAT tests, police and fire dept. qualification, the outcome of decades of this constant lowering of standards to accommodate all but everyone, is starting to show in this country. Usually with negative results. We wouldn't think of allowing this in the medical or legal profession. Because the outcome would be disastrous for the patient or client.

I'm for the right to bear arms as much or more than anyone. But the fact is, that in itself doesn't mean anyone who wants to carry one, should. If the people who fail this "test" become discouraged and quit, and sell their handgun, along with giving up on the idea for good, then perhaps that's not entirely a bad thing.

Those who really want to improve enough to pass will practice until they do. This is good for everyone concerned all the way around. Carrying a weapon certainly requires as much or more responsibility as driving a motor vehicle. Both have unintended consequences if not operated properly. We wouldn't want to see standards constantly lowered so most everyone can drive. This should be no different.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Remember that it's the idea of concealed carry that is drawing many of these first time shooters into these type of basic pistol courses. While I agree that 4" accuracy at 10' is a very low standard, it can be achieved with minimal practice. The fact so many fail it does not mean it should be made easier. Especially when we are talking about shooting in a self defense scenario.

But bear in mind this course is a shooters entry into the world of shooting. This course does not address in any way shape or form address the concept of SD except when the class brings it up. In my mind the course was perfect when the accuracy requirement was not used.

As an example, I got my instructor qual 5+ years ago and the instructor required we hit paper at 7 yards.

I think the second NRA course should be an accuracy test and the third and fourth ..SD inside the home and then SD outside the home (as it is now).

I told the lead instructor if he wands to grant the students completion and document that the student did not qualify on the accuracy part, I am fine with that.
 
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Originally Posted by Al
Originally Posted by billt460
Remember that it's the idea of concealed carry that is drawing many of these first time shooters into these type of basic pistol courses. While I agree that 4" accuracy at 10' is a very low standard, it can be achieved with minimal practice. The fact so many fail it does not mean it should be made easier. Especially when we are talking about shooting in a self defense scenario.

But bear in mind this course is a shooters entry into the world of shooting. This course does not address in any way shape or form address the concept of SD except when the class brings it up. In my mind the course was perfect when the accuracy requirement was not used.

...

I agree. If you are trying to get someone interested in something, the initial introduction should be something fun and encouraging, and failing a course does not do that.
This does not sound like a shooting/self defends class, sounds like an intro to guns and having a chance to fire a gun in a no-stress, no-judgment environment, but by being graded by such a standard (regardless of how easy you may find it), can easily put someone with a little interest into someone with no interest.
 
Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by Al
But bear in mind this course is a shooters entry into the world of shooting. This course does not address in any way shape or form address the concept of SD except when the class brings it up. In my mind the course was perfect when the accuracy requirement was not used....

I agree. If you are trying to get someone interested in something, the initial introduction should be something fun and encouraging, and failing a course does not do that.
This does not sound like a shooting/self defends class, sounds like an intro to guns and having a chance to fire a gun in a no-stress, no-judgment environment, but by being graded by such a standard (regardless of how easy you may find it), can easily put someone with a little interest into someone with no interest.

Then why make it a "course", and grade them at all? What's the point? It's like giving, "participation trophy's". Passing a course, any course, that involves enough knowledge and skill to where the individual learning it should be tested in the first place, should have meaning. I can't count the amount of "certificates" I received in my trade over the years. I never "earned" a single one of them. I got them by attending vendor sponsored tooling seminars.

They're all official looking, and suitable for framing, with my name embossed on them. Usually accompanied with some type of meaningless "gold seal" to make them look official. Not one of them is worth the paper they're printed on. Because all I had to do to get them, was sit on my rear, and listen to some guy flap his jaws for 2 hours to "earn" them.

This is no different. If it's nothing more than a general introduction into shooting and safe gun handling, that's perfectly fine. Then it shouldn't be graded. Let the participants attend, shoot, and in general enjoy the day. Leave the "grading" and "testing" for something where it's required, and actually has some meaning.
 
Originally Posted by billt460
Originally Posted by blupupher
Originally Posted by Al
But bear in mind this course is a shooters entry into the world of shooting. This course does not address in any way shape or form address the concept of SD except when the class brings it up. In my mind the course was perfect when the accuracy requirement was not used....

I agree. If you are trying to get someone interested in something, the initial introduction should be something fun and encouraging, and failing a course does not do that.
This does not sound like a shooting/self defends class, sounds like an intro to guns and having a chance to fire a gun in a no-stress, no-judgment environment, but by being graded by such a standard (regardless of how easy you may find it), can easily put someone with a little interest into someone with no interest.

Then why make it a "course", and grade them at all? What's the point? It's like giving, "participation trophy's". Passing a course, any course, that involves enough knowledge and skill to where the individual learning it should be tested in the first place, should have meaning. I can't count the amount of "certificates" I received in my trade over the years. I never "earned" a single one of them. I got them by attending vendor sponsored tooling seminars.

Well you have to do a test, the instructor certifies you completed the objectives...including..safely handle and shoot a firearm. To me a course completion is important. I have a number of course completions for firearms. And in the almost impossible event I need to take someone out, I will need every one of them.


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This is no different. If it's nothing more than a general introduction into shooting and safe gun handling, that's perfectly fine. Then it shouldn't be graded. Let the participants attend, shoot, and in general enjoy the day. Leave the "grading" and "testing" for something where it's required, and actually has some meaning.

I understanding what you are saying. But it is a "course" and they chose to pay to take a 'course' and they understand up front they will be graded and receive a "certificate". Most of the folks that come here are with a partner who already shoots and still they "choose" to take the course instead of just going out with their partner to have fun. I guess we'll just have to disagree here
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Originally Posted by bubbatime
Can you put a Ruger Mark 2 .22LR pistol in their hands for the shooting portion of the class? I bet many more would pass.

I would have said I'll put a laser on one of my pistols but one of the shooters was with her friend who had the laser. She did not pass.
 
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