Nokian Hakka R2 winter tires

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
.........I sent an email to Nokian 6 months ago via their contact page, asking if the R2 sold in North America is 100% identical to the R2 sold in Russia and the Scandinavian market, and they replied "Nokian Hakkapeliitta R is the same in every country.".............


The above sentence should read: "I sent an email to Nokian 10 months ago via their contact page, asking if the Hakka R sold in North America is 100% identical to the R sold in Russia and the Scandinavian market, and they replied "Nokian Hakkapeliitta R is the same in every country."

I assume this is also true for the new R2

 

[rslifkin]

I'll be picking up a set of the Hakka R2s for the Jeep (in 235/70R16) this winter, so I should have some first impressions to report in 3 months or so. They're looking good from what I've found, and they're only a little more expensive ($162) than the Michelin xi-2 ($156) and a bit more than the Blizzak DM-V1 ($128), which would be the other 2 good studless choices in the same size.

 

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
I'll be picking up a set of the Hakka R2s for the Jeep (in 235/70R16) this winter, so I should have some first impressions to report in 3 months or so. They're looking good from what I've found, and they're only a little more expensive ($162) than the Michelin xi-2 ($156) and a bit more than the Blizzak DM-V1 ($128), which would be the other 2 good studless choices in the same size.


And now that I think about it, the free shipping on the Hakkas makes them cheaper than the xi2s ($646 for the Hakkas vs $687 for the xi2s) and only a bit more than the Blizzaks ($574 shipped).

 

[Rand]

did not the xi3 just come out last year? there is already 2 versions of them? where did I miss that at?
edit:

now that I think about it .. it came out 2 years ago but wasnt very available??

 

[SubLGT]

Yes, the Xi3 was first available for purchase 1 year ago. Winter tires are like wine.

Every years production run is different in its characteristics from the previous years production run.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Yes, the Xi3 was first available for purchase 1 year ago. Winter tires are like wine.

Every years production run is different in its characteristics from the previous years production run.


ah so the tread is the same but they tweak the rubber formulation?

 

[SubLGT]

Yes, and they can also tweak the internal structure. It is too expensive to tweak the tread design. Tire molds are apparently very expensive.

 

[SubLGT]

Nokian has a sneak preview of test results for the R2, from the Russian automotive magazine Za Rulem:
http://www.nokiantyres.com/test-success-autumn-2013

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Yes, the Xi3 was first available for purchase 1 year ago. Winter tires are like wine.

Every years production run is different in its characteristics from the previous years production run.


ah so the tread is the same but they tweak the rubber formulation?

They may not intentionally tweak it, but there might be a variation in production methods or slight differences.

It's been noted that automotive fluids test differently from batch to batch even though they're supposed to be made exactly the same way. I work in the electronics industry, and semiconductor manufacturing is known for variable results even if every step was done precisely with a new production run.

 

[SubLGT]

Winter tire "tweaking" is intentional, especially for the Russian, Scandinavian, and central European markets, where winter tire sales are highly influenced by test results in consumer publications.

 

[Nebroch]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Originally Posted By: Nebroch
...............WS70 does surprisingly well?


Yes, it does. Better dry pavement behavior than last year, without sacrificing ice and snow traction. But I wonder if the WS70 you can buy in Finland is 100% identical to the one sold in the north American market?


Here's DOT, country of manufacture and manufacturing week for tested:

R2: YLCP, Finland and 7/2013
Xi3: H1WC 033X, Spain and 37/2012
WS70: H4 8K, Japan and 34/2012

Tyres were 205/55R16. People could check what kind of DOT codes they have when they purchase these in NA.

 

[SubLGT]

^ Thanks for the information, Nebroch. Judging from these dates, testing at Test World was started probably no earlier than March of this year.

As I understand it, Test World does these tests under contract to a group of magazines: Motor, Aftonbladet, Auto Motor & Sport, Tekniikan Mailma, and AutoReview.

Do you know if the test tires are provided to Test World directly from the manufacturers, or are they purchased on the open market? There was a little scandal about 10 years ago, in which a Continental winter tire that tested very well was in fact different from its production version. Continental had provided a custom, specially constructed tire for the test.

 

[Nebroch]

I think they must come directly from the manufacturers, R2 for example came to stores not until this autumn.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: Nebroch
Ok, someone posted detailed test results from the magazine to internet, and here are some main results for three best studless:

Ice braking distance: WS70 55.6 m, R2 56.4 m and Xi3 61.0 m (Hakka 8 studded 40.7 m, ouch)
Ice handling points (0-10): R2 8p, Xi3 8p and WS70 7p

Snow braking: Xi3 54.3 m, R2 54.5 m and WS70 54.8 m
Snow handling: Xi3 10p, R2 10p and WS70 9p

Wet asphalt braking: Xi3 34.9 m, R2 35.2 m and WS70 35.5 m
Wet asphalt handling: Xi3 8p, R2 6p and WS70 6p

Dry asphalt braking: WS70 26.8 m, Xi3 28.2 m and R2 28.7 m
Dry asphalt handling: Xi3 8p, WS70 7p and R2 6p

Directional stability points (0-10): Xi3 9p, R2 7p and WS70 7p

WS70 does surprisingly well?


See the test results at this Finnish BMW forum. Have your Finnish>English dictionary handy

http://www.btcf.fi/forum/showthread.php?p=3135220

He also posted results from the magazine Tuulilasi, but without specifying tire model names.

 

[SubLGT]

Fedex delivered my set of R2s today. Manufactured at Nokian's Russian plant, in August 2013, making them the freshest set of tires I have ever bought.

They have surprisingly little new tire odor. Lots of interesting little details in the tread design. The tire molds must have been very expensive to create.

They cost me $40 more than a set of Michelin Xi3 from Tire Rack.

 

[krzyss]

Congratulations.
Now pray for heavy winter to justify the price difference ;-)

Krzys

 

[Nebroch]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
He also posted results from the magazine Tuulilasi, but without specifying tire model names.

Those are all studded versions on Tuulilasi.

Translations for TM's test (blue is studded, beige studless)

Ajettavuus kuivalla asfaltilla = Handling on dry asphalt
Jarrutus kuivalla asfaltilla = Braking on dry asphalt
Suuntavakaus = directional stability
Polttoaineen kulutuksen lisäys = Increase in fuel consumption (compared to best tyre)

Ajettavuus jäällä = Handling on ice
ABS-jarrutus jäällä = ABS-braking on ice
Käsittelykoe jäällä = Handling test on ice (laptime)
Kiihdytys jäällä = Acceleration on ice

Ajettavuus lumella = Handling on snow
ABS-jarrutus lumella = Braking on snow
Käsittelykoe lumella = Handling test on snow (laptime)
Kiihdytys lumella = Acceleration on snow

Ajettavuus märällä asfaltilla = Handling on wet asphalt
ABS-jarrutus märällä asfaltilla = ABS-braking on wet asphalt
Käsittelykoe märällä asfaltilla = Handling test on wet asphalt (laptime)
Melu = Noise

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: krzyss
Congratulations.
Now pray for heavy winter to justify the price difference ;-)

Krzys


The "Nokian tax" is not too bad compared to the Xi3, about $40 for a set of four. But compared to the cost of the WS70, the Nokian tax is about $170, and compared to the Conti EWC it is $197. And when you factor in the $50 rebates available on those other tires, the Nokian tax gets even larger. I don't think I have ever seen a Nokian rebate.

Nokian claims their winter tires have superior performance and superior quality. The next few months will be the test of that claim. We are supposed to get above average snowfall in north Idaho, and below average temperatures.

 

[SubLGT]

Originally Posted By: Nebroch
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
He also posted results from the magazine Tuulilasi, but without specifying tire model names.

Those are all studded versions on Tuulilasi.

Translations for TM's test (blue is studded, beige studless)

Ajettavuus kuivalla asfaltilla = Handling on dry asphalt
Jarrutus kuivalla asfaltilla = Braking on dry asphalt
Suuntavakaus = directional stability..................


Thanks for those translations.

 

[sciphi]

The Nokian winter tires are also LRR tires, while the WS70 and Conti EWC are not. On the same roads in similar (32*F, slight south wind) weather with the OEM Goodyear Assurance Fuel Max tires and the Nokian Hakka R, my Cruze Eco's fuel mileage was 0-2 mpg less over several tanks after switching over. Impressive for a snow tire. The "Nokian premium" can more than repay itself in saved fuel if one drives a lot. My 2 year old Cruze has 70k miles on it, about 25k of those miles running snow tires. My set of Nokian Hakka R's is still right around 7-8/32" all around. I'd say they have another 25k miles left before they need to be replaced.

If the R2 is better than the R in LRR and treadlife and one drives a lot, the "Nokian premium" just may be cheaper overall than the others.