No more super gun oils

[Mystic]

I pretty much have given up on all of the super gun cleaners and super gun oils. I just use Hoppes No. 9 gun cleaner and Hoppes Bench Rest gun cleaner and TW25B gun oil. Frankly, Hoppes gun oil seems to work fine. These are the products I can find locally and they seem to work good enough.

Of all the super products that I have tested the ones that impressed me the most were Blue Wonder gun cleaner and MPro7 gun cleaner and MPro7 gun oil. But the Blue Wonder is no longer available locally and the nearest MPro7 gun products are located in a city about 50 miles away. I can get the Hoppes stuff and the TW25B at a nearby Big R Store.

One product I do not believe in for sure is Break Free. It caused my gun to jam. I would rather just use Hoppes gun cleaner and Hoppes gun oil rather then that stuff.

 

[BlownF150]

How were you using the Break Free? Always takes me a while to teach soldiers prior to and after weapons qual how to use the stuff. They coat the bolt with it and wonder why after zeroing their weapon doesn't fire 10 rounds without a FTE. I'll buy Blue Wonder online after the freebies have used up. Usually get much better deals than local suppliers anyway.

 

[Tempest]

TW25B is a good lube. Mpro 7 and Hoppe's Elite are good cleaners (very similar).

Of course you could get some FP10 and have everything you need in one bottle.

 

[johnsmith]

Here was what I was typing:
"These are the products I can find locally and they seem to work good enough"... Gosh, that is soooooo boringly reasonable of you. What are you doing on this site?

Then I saw:
"One product I do not believe in for sure is Break Free"... and my heart stopped. You have to be kidding right? Maybe (probably) you were applying it wrong? What kind of gun/ammunition/mags/etc. were involved in the incident(s)? What kind of jam do you speak of?

 

[Mystic]

The only thing I know is that I used the Break Free as per instructions and my gun started to jam. It does not jam with anything else unless it is very, very dirty. And I have to shoot a lot of rounds before it gets that dirty. And I also have heard that Break Free is used by the military and a lot of soldiers try to use something else if they can. I will never use the stuff again.

Blue Wonder realy is a pretty good bore cleaner. It has an ammonia like smell. I do not like to buy much stuff online and as far as I know no gunshop around where I live sells it anymore. There used to be a gunshop in the county that sold it but that place has closed. My guess is that Hoppes Benchrest is roughly equal. You have to leave the Benchrest in overnight.

As far as I have been able to determine MPro7 and Hoppes Elite are the same products with different labeling. The nearest place (a fishing and tackle place) that sells MPro7 is fifty miles away. Let me tell you MPro7 is great stuff. The cleaner cleans really well (and is safe-you can use it indoors) and the synthetic gun oil works well. But I can still get the same results using Hoppes cleaners and TW25B gun oil.

I don't know if the area I live is strange or what (I live in Colorado). But many of the gun cleaners and gun oils that people here talk about I have never seen in a gun store (and I have been in several). I have never seen a single bottle of Hoppes Elite in a gunshop anywhere in this area. Even some of the other common gun oils and cleaners are simply not anywhere around. Pretty much the only stuff I have found in this area are Hoppes products, KleenBore, BreakFree, RemOil, and that is about it. I consider myself lucky to have found a place where I can buy TW25B.

As long as the local products do well enough it is too much of a hassle to have to order some product online. With the current security concerns involving the internet I think I can manage with Hoppes Benchrest and TW25B which I can at least find locally. I have in the past ordered and tried many gun cleaners and gun oils online and the vast majority of these products really did not impress me (with the exception of Blue Wonder and MPro7 products). In fact, I first obtained Blue Wonder online and later discovered a store that sold it locally (shortly before that gunshop went out of business). I think I first obtained MPro7 online for that matter. But the internet is a very different world today. I would probably try a lot of products if I could find them locally. Maybe my area is unusual. I live in Colorado where there is a lot of hunting and you would think that gun products would be commonplace. But insteasd I can't remember the last time I saw Shooter's Choice products anywhere locally and Shooter's Choice is not exactly exotic.

 

[Mystic]

Oh, one more thing. I care about my personal safety. One of the super gun products I ordered online had clorinated hydrocarbons in it. It worked well but rather then get cancer I would use the Hoppes and the TW25B. I don't care how good a product might be if it is dangerous. Hoppes is mostly kerosene with a few other things added and TW25B is supposed to be very safe. No clorinated junk for me.

 

[johnsmith]

What kind of gun/ammunition/mags/etc. were involved in the incident(s)? What kind of jam do you speak of? Any custom work done on the gun? I gots ta have details...

Have you poked around at gun shows for some of these other products? Surely you at least have those where you're at! Mail-order catalogs?

quote:

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You have to leave the Benchrest in overnight

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Say what now? I'm pretty sure that's not totally necessary. Where did you hear the bit about overnight?

No matter what the actual cause(s) of malfunction in your gun turns out to be, if there is a high enough correlation between a product's use and operating failure, who cares? If CLP consistently "makes" your gun act funky, then don't use it, no matter what the numbers or other people say. The only odd thing is that it seems to work so well for other people, including myself, which is why I am so curious to see if there are any other factors at work. Maybe it only works on guns outside of Colorado or something; did you read the fine print?

And chlorinated hydrocarbons, little devils that they are, are probably about the last health hazard you need to be concerned with if you are shooting regularly.

That's not to say that non-toxic alternatives aren't highly desirable though: one of my little semi-local company (Pro-Shot Products) gems is non-toxic, and it works amazingly well on shotguns. Smells like oranges too!

 

[BlownF150]

The soldiers who know how to use CLP don't have a problem with it. For an all-in-one product is does pretty good. It takes so little of the stuff to clean and lubricate and that's were a lot of soldiers get into trouble. They don't know that a heavy coat means just enough to push with a finger and a light coat you can't even do that with. I understand about the safety issue though...why I use Blue Wonder now. Very safe and effective. All their products are safe, even the XFR is biodegradeable.

 

[fuel tanker man]

"The CLP and Breakfree brand oil the military purchases is worthless," said Aaron Johnson, a 10-year veteran of the Army and Army Reserve, and author of a DefenseWatch guest column on the Army M9 sidearm ( "How to Save the M9 Beretta," June 16, 2003). "I'm sure large amounts are acquired [by the Army] at relatively low cost, but that’s why it should be done away with. That oil is too rich, and has little effectiveness at keeping weapons clean."

http://www.militec-1.com/articles/SFTT.html

I think that the CLP can have some issues. Word is that the military is looking into other lubricants, of a dry type in particular.

I use Hoppes 9 as well. Pretty much exclusively. That, and Kroil. If you have a local small airport, you can usually find Kroil in stock, as it's used a lot in aviation apps. I picked up a large can of AeroKroil the other day for 7 bucks at an small airport in Kentucky.

Johnson's Paste Wax is still a fantastic rust and corrosion inhibitor, and I do use that as well if I'm storing a gun for a long period of time. It doesn't attract dust, and it won't run off.

Dan

 

[Mystic]

I would really like to be able to find Hoppes Elite. I am AMAZED that I have never been able to find Hoppes Elite locally. Hoppes is like the most popular brand of gun care products available, is it not?

From what I have heard Hoppes Elite is the same as MPro7 with just different labeling. If that is true, let me tell you try some MPro7 products or Hoppes Elite yourself. MPro7 gun cleaner is so safe you can use it indoors. I prefer the jell because the spray does not last too long. It will remove ALL carbon, oil, and grease. I prefer to use it just for the gun barrel because it may clean too well! And also because it is too expensive. Hoppes No. 9 would work for other areas of the gun. It may not be super effective removing copper but you could use some other product once a year or so for that. I will not leave a dirty gun overnight. That is the old saying and I abide by it. Never leave a dirty gun to lay overnight.

It is always windy where I live and I prefer to clean guns outside. But if it is very windy or cold I need to clean a gun inside. MPro7 cleaner will let you do that. It is very effective. Try it!

The MPro7 gun oil seems really good also. And Blue Wonder is really good for cleaning gun barrels also. I have too partially used bottles that I plan on keeping as long as I can-making the stuff last.

What I have discovered is that there really are some great products but you have to search for them and try a lot of stuff before you finally find the real McCoys. But if all you have locally is Hoppes No. 9 or Hoppes Benchrest and Hoppes gun oil as long as you clean a gun right away you are probably okay.

What I heard was that the soldiers in Iraq were contacting their families and trying to have their families send them various products such as Militec-1 to replace the stuff the military supplies. If there really is something wrong with the military stuff then I is just wrong for this country to supply ikts soldiers with junk products. Personally myself I have tried Militec-1 and I did not find it to be great.

It answer to a question above the gun I was using that jammed with BreakFree was a Sig 9mm using Sig 15 round magazines. I do have a tendency to overlube guns but it said on the label to use only a small amount and I think I did use a small amount.

I know of an ex-Marine who is really a great shot (he is a range instructor) and he will not touch BreakFree. In fact, he does not believe in ANY CLP product. He said that a cleaning product cannot be the same as a lubricating product. At one time I used KleenBore Formula 3 but I could take a gun barrel cleaned with it and remove MORE stuff out of the barrel AFTER cleaning with the KleenBore using a product such as MPro7 or Hoppes Benchrest. In fact, I did experiments like that just to see how effective different products were. The barrel would look clean after I have used the KleenBore but a lot of green (copper) and black stuff would come out after I used Hoppes Benchrest. I became kind of disenchanted with the KleenBore Formula 3.

I think if Hoppes Elite was available locally those are the products that I would use (and maybe once a year some strong barrel cleaner to remove any copper)(. If Hoppes Elite really is the same as MPro7 products I would be pretty happy.

But if I have to drive fifty miles to get some stuff or if I have to order online then I will learn to live with whatever is available locally. If that means Hoppes cleaner and TW25B or Hoppes gun oil I guess that is the way it is.

 

[Mystic]

Oh, and thanks for the advice on the Kroil. I don't know if I have ever used it. I might have sometime in the past. But I have heard that Kroil is amazing stuff.

 

[Tempest]

quote:

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He said that a cleaning product cannot be the same as a lubricating product.

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I used to believe that, too. But chemistry and lubes have come a long way. I think that Eezox and FP10 are shining examples of that.

Eezox uses a trichlor solvent as a carrier for synthetic esters. This carrier makes for a great (but smelly) cleaner, and leaves a very effective dry film lube after the solvent evaporates. I use this product on most of my handguns because it is dry and not slimy or oily and is one of the best at corrosion resistance.

FP10 uses a semi-synthetic base oil that has cleaning properties. It cleans very well with NO SOLVENTS. It does, however, take time. The best thing you can do with FP10 is put on a heavy coat everywhere (including the bore) and let it sit for a couple of days. This will give it time to get under the debris and lift it off the surface. After this, cleaning is easy because the dirt is not attached to the metal.

I've pulled out black patches from barrels that were previously "cleaned" with dedicated cleaners (including Mpro)using this method. And, because it is a true CLP, you can leave it on there as long as you like without fear of chemical damage. In fact, the longer you leave it, the better it cleans.

If you like MPro7, order some MC25 from Mil comm (the people that make TW25B). Same idea as Mpro, but even more effective. I know, sounds impossible. I didn't believe it until I saw the difference myself. VERY impressed.

I've seen a couple of informal corrosion tests on the web where the Hoppe's Elite/Mpro oil did VERY poorly. Normally I wouldn't attribute to much to these informal experiments, but the results were identical in both. Just an FYI.

 

[kwg020]

We used Break Free when I was in the National Guard. Break free is a great lube but a lousy cleaner. The reason the Army went to a one stop lube/cleaner is so they would not have to handle and dispose of a cleaning solvent. (EPA **)

I use mineral spirits on my play and duty firearms and drain off the left overs to a storage container to use on later projects where a little contamination won't matter. Break free or CLP is wet and will rub off some carbon and unburned powder but I don't buy your rifle is clean after your done.

Mystic your ex Marine friend is right. You can't have both lube and clean in one product. It's OK to use and expose the troops to depleated uranium in bullets but it's not ok to use a solvent to clean your rifle. I don't get it. Military wisdom. Just my thoughts. kwg

 

[12glocks]

I would think if a gun with jam when lubed with break free it would be prone to jamming. I'll predict that it is not a Glock, Sig, or Beretta. Glock has tested their guns after they have been chemically degreased and they continue to function. I'm not trying to hijack the thread, I just recall this.

My first guess would be a Colt 1911. I just like to guess though.

IMO Break Free is a decent lube. I have used it to clean pistol barrels and it is only a fair cleaner IMO.

FWIW, I use the Montana Exteme line of bore cleaners to good effect. Butch's bore shine is supposed to be excellant as well. MP-7 worked well for me too. Kroil is supposed to be the king of lead cleaners, but I don't know since I don't shoot lead.

For those members not finding a good selection locally, I have always been very pleased when dealing with Midway.

 

[chevrofreak]

quote:

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Originally posted by BlownF150:
How were you using the Break Free? Always takes me a while to teach soldiers prior to and after weapons qual how to use the stuff. They coat the bolt with it and wonder why after zeroing their weapon doesn't fire 10 rounds without a FTE. I'll buy Blue Wonder online after the freebies have used up. Usually get much better deals than local suppliers anyway.

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Wow, that sounds like a really well designed weapon

 

[12glocks]

Oops guessed wrong! Sigs are so very reliable too. My 228 has never jammed with whatever it has been fed.

 

[Mystic]

The gun I was using BreakFree on that jammed was a SIG P226 9 mm. BreakFree may be popular in the military but I will not use it myself. I would rather use just Hoppe's No. 9 gun cleaner and Hoppe's gun oil then BreakFree. No jams with good ol' Hoppe's gun oil.

From my point of view about the best gun cleaner I ever found was MPro7 gun cleaner. The jell lasts longer then the spray. I like to use it only on the gun barrel because it is expensive and it removes all oil, grease, and carbon. It is so safe you can use it indoors. And the MPro7 gun oil is a synthetic gun oil that seems to work real well. The MPro7 gun cleaner may not remove copper but you can use another cleaner for that once a year or so.

Hoppe's Elite products are supposed to be (according to what I have heard) the same as MPro7 products but I have never been able to find any Hoppe's Elite anywhere.

When you really come right down to it good ol' Hoppe's No. 9 and Hoppe's gun oil and a good supply of elbow grease will get a gun cleaned. I still believe what the old Marine gun instructor said-you can't have both cleaning and lubricating and protecting in a single product.

 

[Mystic]

Guns may not be very high priority anymore in the military-fighter jets and smart bombs may be more interesting. But somebody has to look out for the infantry fighting in the dirt and dust armed with rifles and handguns. I think there should be research to find a good effective cleaner and a good, dry lubricate for rifles and handguns. Maybe some kind of graphite containing dry lube that will not attrack dust.

 

[Tempest]

P226 should work fine for a short time bone dry. I'm no fan of BF, but I don't believe that it will make a gun jamb unless it has fired several hundred rounds and has cooked off or congealed. Please describe the jamb(s) that your pistol experienced.

TW25B is a thin grease and therefore has more viscosity (drag) than any oil. If anything it will make a semi-auto gun less reliable than running oil.

 

[Praticoman]

Smith & Wesson came out with a whole new series of lubricants and cleaners.