No more startup rattle after switch to Bosch D3410

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Falcon_LS

Falcon_LS

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Whenever I'd start my Grand Marquis first thing in the morning, after it's been sitting for 12 hours or so, there would be a brief 1-2 second tapping noise from the engine that would immediately go away. Up until now, I've always used a Motorcraft FL-820S.

As weird as this sounds, I've had the Bosch D3410 on for a week now, and there's no tapping at all at startup whatsoever. Why would it tap with the FL-820S, which is an OE equalivant, but not with the Bosch?
21.gif
 
Obvious reason would be higher flow rate of oil, less filter restriction. Another possibility would be the bypass valve opening, but I doubt that would be the case with a new filter.
 
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
Obvious reason would be higher flow rate of oil, less filter restriction. Another possibility would be the bypass valve opening, but I doubt that would be the case with a new filter.


Shouldn't have thrown out the last filter.
frown.gif
Would have been a good idea to open it up and check. But they were also doing it when new.
 
My 05 Vic has the same 1-2 second tapping just about everyday after 12 hours..Sometimes just after 4 hours..It has been doing that since 05..The 07 Grand Marquis does the same thing..Both cars use Motorcraft filters..Same thing goes for my friends 98 Grand Marquis.

My 99 Grand Marquis [HPP] did the same thing also on Motorcraft filters for over 200K miles..I tried all kinds of filters on that one but the 1-2 second rattle was still there after a few hours.

Plese let us know if the 1-2 second rattle makes a return..Thanks.
 
Curious. I wonder if the filter is holding more oil when the motor is off.

Some of the S4 guys swear that certain oils reduce the startup "crunch" but I have yet to see/hear it after running Liqui-Moly Synthoil 5w40, Motul 300V 5w40 and 5w30, and RLI 0w30.
 
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
My 05 Vic has the same 1-2 second tapping just about everyday after 12 hours..Sometimes just after 4 hours..It has been doing that since 05..The 07 Grand Marquis does the same thing..Both cars use Motorcraft filters..Same thing goes for my friends 98 Grand Marquis.

My 99 Grand Marquis [HPP] did the same thing also on Motorcraft filters for over 200K miles..I tried all kinds of filters on that one but the 1-2 second rattle was still there after a few hours.

Plese let us know if the 1-2 second rattle makes a return..Thanks.


My 2002 F-150 4.6 has had Motorcraft blend 5W-20 and FL820S filters only, since new. Never had any start up tapping noise, even after sitting a week plus in teen and single diget temps.

Whimsey
 
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
Obvious reason would be higher flow rate of oil, less filter restriction. Another possibility would be the bypass valve opening, but I doubt that would be the case with a new filter.


Theoretically, with a PD oil pump the flow should be the same regardless of which filter is used because I highly doubt the oil pump goes into pressure relief on a start-up where the engine RPM is near idle.

I would suspect the ADBV wasn't sealing 100% above anything else.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
Obvious reason would be higher flow rate of oil, less filter restriction. Another possibility would be the bypass valve opening, but I doubt that would be the case with a new filter.


Theoretically, with a PD oil pump the flow should be the same regardless of which filter is used because I highly doubt the oil pump goes into pressure relief on a start-up where the engine RPM is near idle.

I would suspect the ADBV wasn't sealing 100% above anything else.


Seems unlikely this is happening 100% of the time for some and never for others.
 
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
My 05 Vic has the same 1-2 second tapping just about everyday after 12 hours..Sometimes just after 4 hours..It has been doing that since 05..The 07 Grand Marquis does the same thing..Both cars use Motorcraft filters..Same thing goes for my friends 98 Grand Marquis.

My 99 Grand Marquis [HPP] did the same thing also on Motorcraft filters for over 200K miles..I tried all kinds of filters on that one but the 1-2 second rattle was still there after a few hours.

Plese let us know if the 1-2 second rattle makes a return..Thanks.


Are you tempted to try the D4310 next time? It's the same thing as a Pure One, I believe.
 
Originally Posted By: DinoLover
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Corvette Owner
Obvious reason would be higher flow rate of oil, less filter restriction. Another possibility would be the bypass valve opening, but I doubt that would be the case with a new filter.


Theoretically, with a PD oil pump the flow should be the same regardless of which filter is used because I highly doubt the oil pump goes into pressure relief on a start-up where the engine RPM is near idle.

I would suspect the ADBV wasn't sealing 100% above anything else.


Seems unlikely this is happening 100% of the time for some and never for others.


If the ADBV is bad in that filter, it will probably happen ever time on that particular vehicle if left to sit for a long time (over night or longer). Some engines aren't as sensitive to the filter draining as others are.

Only way to know if it's the filter is to try another FL-820S or two and see if the same thing happens. I really don't think the problem is caused by a "too restrictive" filter, as there really isn't one when the engine is at idle speeds unless the filter is basically clogged 100%.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DinoLover
Seems unlikely this is happening 100% of the time for some and never for others.


If the ADBV is bad in that filter, it will probably happen ever time on that particular vehicle if left to sit for a long time (over night or longer). Some engines aren't as sensitive to the filter draining as others are.


Ummm 100% of the time in the sense that some posters have always used Motorcraft filters and had that noise, while others haven't, while another got that noise regardless of what filter he tried.

What are the chances that all of these people have ALWAYS gotten Motorcraft filters with faulty ADBVs?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: DinoLover
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DinoLover
Seems unlikely this is happening 100% of the time for some and never for others.


If the ADBV is bad in that filter, it will probably happen ever time on that particular vehicle if left to sit for a long time (over night or longer). Some engines aren't as sensitive to the filter draining as others are.


Ummm 100% of the time in the sense that some posters have always used Motorcraft filters and had that noise, while others haven't, while another got that noise regardless of what filter he tried.

What are the chances that all of these people have ALWAYS gotten Motorcraft filters with faulty ADBVs?


Are you talking on the same exact year and model of vehicle? Like I said, some engines just don't care if the ADBV works well or not. I can start all my vehicle with bone dry oil filters and none of them make any kind of engine rattles or noises because of a dry filter at start-up.
 
I'm talking about the experiences posted up by members on this thread.

The OP said he has always had this noise until he moved to Bosch D3410. The ADBV on Motorcraft FL820S and Bosch D3410 is identical. He is surprised the sound went away.

CROWNEVIC4LIFE said his 2 Grand Marquis and 1 Crowne Vic all from different years have always done this. The 2 Grand Marquis have always had Motorcraft filters, the Crowne Vic had all sorts of filters but made the same sound.

So what you said ie:

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
I would suspect the ADBV wasn't sealing 100% above anything else.


would only be valid if there was an issue with the ADBV in every filter all these people had ever purchased.

That seems to rule the ADBV out as a cause, or do you disagree?
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
Why are you running 5W-40? How long have you used this weight?


For the additive package, PAO base, higher TBN and HTHS of 3.5 cP (ACEA A3/B4). I've been using this for the past 25,000 miles. Engine's smooth as butter.

Ford recommends 10w30 for this engine in the Middle East (not 5W-20), whilst 5W-40 is recommended in Australia. I chose the latter, because it's easier to find in synthetic form and Synthoil High Tech was recommended by the R&D Manager at Liqui-Moly versus their other products.

I don't drive the car like it's got 180,000 miles on it (lead footed), end up in congested traffic quite often and when I'm on the open highway, 100+ MPH is a common occurance (3.08 rear axle soon to be upgraded to 3.73). The engine's also got a couple of bolt-ons - Steeda underdrive pulleys, EMP Stewart High Performance coolant pump, ported intake, 80 mm MAF sensor, larger throttle body and a Steeda oil catch can. Unfortunately, my only option is to run the engine on high sulfur gas. So far, the oil's been holding up well and my drain intervals are 6,250 miles.

Being an export model, apart from the suspension (softer) and torque converter (12" versus 11.25"), the car's equipped like a Crown Victoria Police Interceptor - 900 rpm engine idle speed, engine oil cooler, ATF and power steering fluid cooler, H-pipe (with factory catalytic converter delete), 130 amp 6th Generation alternator, heavy duty calipers and steering pump. The oil coolers certainly do help quite a lot, especially when idling in traffic at 140 F in summer.

Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
My 05 Vic has the same 1-2 second tapping just about everyday after 12 hours..Sometimes just after 4 hours..It has been doing that since 05..The 07 Grand Marquis does the same thing..Both cars use Motorcraft filters..Same thing goes for my friends 98 Grand Marquis.

My 99 Grand Marquis [HPP] did the same thing also on Motorcraft filters for over 200K miles..I tried all kinds of filters on that one but the 1-2 second rattle was still there after a few hours.

Plese let us know if the 1-2 second rattle makes a return..Thanks.


Will keep you updated, no problem!
thumbsup2.gif
My '00 Crown Vic, '03 and '07 Grand Marquis have also done the same thing.

Originally Posted By: dparm
Curious. I wonder if the filter is holding more oil when the motor is off.

Some of the S4 guys swear that certain oils reduce the startup "crunch" but I have yet to see/hear it after running Liqui-Moly Synthoil 5w40, Motul 300V 5w40 and 5w30, and RLI 0w30.


Do you reckon the synthetic media could have something to do with it?

Originally Posted By: DinoLover
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
My 05 Vic has the same 1-2 second tapping just about everyday after 12 hours..Sometimes just after 4 hours..It has been doing that since 05..The 07 Grand Marquis does the same thing..Both cars use Motorcraft filters..Same thing goes for my friends 98 Grand Marquis.

My 99 Grand Marquis [HPP] did the same thing also on Motorcraft filters for over 200K miles..I tried all kinds of filters on that one but the 1-2 second rattle was still there after a few hours.

Plese let us know if the 1-2 second rattle makes a return..Thanks.


Are you tempted to try the D4310 next time? It's the same thing as a Pure One, I believe.


Different filter. The Bosch Distance Plus has a higher capacity is uses synthetic media.
 
Originally Posted By: DinoLover


Are you tempted to try the D4310 next time? It's the same thing as a Pure One, I believe.


If it works for Falcon LS I will definitely give it a try on my next oil change.
 
Since you live in Kuwait, you want all of that extra stuff: high-performance coolant pump, oil cooler, ATF/PSF cooler, etc as well as the thicker oil.

It can get really hot over there....
 
Originally Posted By: DinoLover
I'm talking about the experiences posted up by members on this thread.

The OP said he has always had this noise until he moved to Bosch D3410. The ADBV on Motorcraft FL820S and Bosch D3410 is identical. He is surprised the sound went away.

CROWNEVIC4LIFE said his 2 Grand Marquis and 1 Crowne Vic all from different years have always done this. The 2 Grand Marquis have always had Motorcraft filters, the Crowne Vic had all sorts of filters but made the same sound.


Well, apparently it's just a characteristic of that particular Ford engine, regardless of what filter is used.

Maybe it's due to the top end bypass valve.
wink.gif
I'm smelling something fishy here.
 
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