No haggle pricing vs. Negotiating

[SC Maintenance]

I think the OP's point - and forgive me if I am paraphrasing - is that he doesn't negotiate and when he politely explains this people still try, or play games or be rude.

There are plenty of places to negotiate a price on a car if that's what you want. If they don't like his price they should just move along.

 

[Fla]

I think the OP's point - and forgive me if I am paraphrasing - is that he doesn't negotiate and when he politely explains this people still try, or play games or be rude.

There are plenty of places to negotiate a price on a car if that's what you want. If they don't like his price they should just move along.

I think we all "Got that" and that we all agree.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

The world (especially the US) IS getting "nuttier" by the day. Most people in the US are very poorly educated, even those with college educations, I mean degrees, they are no different than the people they shame at the Dollar Gen'ral. These people get the gist of their street smarts from the idiocy of social media and front-porch gossip....


I applaud you for your business practices, even tho I am a hard-core negotiator and known to be so among my friends/family. I'm that way for a reason - I've paid too much too many times in my life and learned lessons.

People are the way they are about buying cars BECAUSE of the experiences they've had at dealerships. All dealerships are different, all play the game differently but most all seem to be the same from the 10,000' look.

To me, buying a vehicle is no different than buying a (edit) can of corn at the grocery store. It's a product, a known product to me (because I have educated myself about it), the store keeper has a price, I have a price in mind and I want to say yay or nay, pay for it and move on with my day.

Most dealerships want you to be pelted by the moronic game they play, they want to wear you down to a nub, they want you hungry, thirsty, tired, angry, bewildered and anxious. Then they appear to be soothing, nourishing, comforting. There's an infinite number of people working there, walking in 132 different directions across the showroom at all times, there's 7-12 males standing behind a glass cage looking at you, them and others seemingly whispering and calculating.

It's all a stupid game of silliness. Then you decide to give in to their game and WHAM! Here comes the real orchestrated crap at the F&I guy behind a desk, in a quiet room and he's been to countless hours of sales training to sell you an insurance policy on this (edit) you have decided to take home, but you neeeeeed this extended warranty because this $55,000 POS is going to break down 6 days a week. And you need rubber floor mats because the rubber floor mats that came with it are no good and the rubber floor mats from Husky that you can buy for 40% of the price the dealer wants are no good. And you need wiper insurance.


I would much prefer to buy a vehicle at a dealer with none of that, with a standard price, a known price. But those places (like Carmax, etc.) price their vehicles 15% higher than what I can buy when haggling from what I have seen.


Heck, I don't even think about going to a dealer anymore anyway. I much rather seek out private sales from people who know how to write an ad, have maintained the car and, quite frankly, are proud of the car and their maintenance history. I'll take that all day long...

 

[John105]

the only time ive had a positive experience at the dealership was when i bought a high volume model at a high volume dealership. they were lower than anyone else and had all the paperwork ready to go to complete the sale when i arrived. it was extremely simple.

I've bought 3 brand new cars in my life. 2/3 took < 10 minutes because I knew the price I wanted.

I'm no saint, I would haggle with a dealer, reach a point where they said please let us know if we can complete this sale, we're open until x PM.

Now, I reached a price where they won't budge, I take another $500 off, and go to dealer B, who recognizes I'm ready to buy and we make a deal.

It has long been obvious to me, ego sets in at some point where a sales organization won't give a deal that they can, because they don't want to--they are willing to forgo a sale to satisfy their ego of not having been out negotiated.

The car where it wasn't like the above, was the 2007 BMW 335i coupe. No dealer in the nation had one for sale, so these were purchased off of allocation, and for those, people also waited. Best price in 10/06 was $1800 off list. Many were list. So that's what I got, $1800 off list. Seemed good based on the forum.

After making the deal, a week later sales mgr says come back in we have to redo the paperwork, Marcy forgot the training and MACO fees. I said that's alright. He said no it isn't you have to pay them. I said no I don't want to pay them. Fake laugh, you have to. I said cancel my order and refund my deposit. I just googled to see what those fees were, it was $600 combined, out of nowhere. Nice try. The car's in the garage as I type by the way I didn't pay the fees.

At any rate, if someone is saying I don't need to do the above, I can come in and get a fair price, I'm willing to do that.

 

[Vil_Riker]

They are just tryin gto stretch their dollar.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

The last time I set foot in a dealer was the Sunday of Labor Day Weekend 2019. Toyota dealer. I traded a 2011 Sequoia and we bought a new 2019 Highlander.

Part of the time spent there was 100% my fault, I was wanting to get rid of the Sequoia and thought we wanted a Highlander. But I wasn't sure, neither was my wife. I was also coming down with a serious sinus infection and as the hours went on, I felt worse and worse.

Finally settled on a trim level and color and then a price. And then I decided I wasn't happy with the price and told them a number $1000 lower. They didn't like it, but in the end, they accepted it. All told, over the course of two days, I spent 7 hours there, sick as a dog and told them I'd never spend more than 15 minutes ever again in their dealership buying anything. I was ticked off and told them they had 7 minutes to get me through the F&I guy, so chose your sales pitch in there carefully.

In the end, it all worked out. We had that Highlander for 27 months and Carvana paid us what we paid for it new. Put 34k miles on it and I did 7 oil changes on it, 3 tire rotations and nothing else but gas. My wife hated giving up the Platinum Sequoia for an LE Plus Highlander but now she has a Lexus LX570 and RX350 to choose from in the driveway. She likes driving the RX the most.

I think I'm done with car dealers anyway. Most have chosen to pursue their profit in "value added" crap and service they can't excel at instead of volume sales with reasonable tactics.

 

[nomas]

My sister just bought a new Nissan Sentra . It would take too long to explain but she got screwed over because she has never negotiated a deal before and was clueless . I know not all dealers are like this but the majority are and you'll never convince me otherwise .

 

[John105]

I was ticked off and told them they had 7 minutes to get me through the F&I guy, so chose your sales pitch in there carefully.

I believe that guy plays a crucial role in the sales process.

He recoups revenue that was given up in the negotiation (protection packages, extended warranties, etc.)

He steers you to his lender, regardless whether or not your own lender that you already have approval through is the largest credit union in the nation--they get the same rate even if it's 5% less than what he offered intially. He makes every effort to dissuade you from paying cash.

He tells you he has no idea why they are doing this deal as they are losing a lot of money (this happened on my wife's car and he turned his screen and I saw a -$7xx in the bottom right. However, I wish I could have had a printout to see what that number really meant). He implied that's how much they're losing net, and that there was no reason to even lose anything at all--it was Labor Day weekend 2011 likely lots of folks would be coming in to shop.

Without that guy, the establishment likely makes $1000+ less on the transaction.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

My sister just bought a new Nissan Sentra . It would take too long to explain but she got screwed over because she has never negotiated a deal before and was clueless . I know not all dealers are like this but the majority are and you'll never convince me otherwise .

All you had to say was Nissan....

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Without that guy, the establishment likely makes $1000+ less on the transaction.

I'd say that the F&I guy is responsible for more like $4000 on the average transaction today.

Much more than what you talk about, from what I've heard. Extended warranties, finance kick-backs, insurance policies on this and that, on and on and on. It's stupid what the dealers have dreamed up and even worse is the dumb consumer sitting there on Saturday afternoon agreeing to it because they have been brainwashed so bad over the last 3 hours.

It really does go to show how vulnerable and dumb this country is.

 

[nwjones18]

I have no problem with a no-haggle price if its fair to start with..

 

[John105]

I'd say that the F&I guy is responsible for more like $4000 on the average transaction today.

Much more than what you talk about, from what I've heard. Extended warranties, finance kick-backs, insurance policies on this and that, on and on and on. It's stupid what the dealers have dreamed up and even worse is the dumb consumer sitting there on Saturday afternoon agreeing to it because they have been brainwashed so bad over the last 3 hours.

It really does go to show how vulnerable and dumb this country is.

If I knew then what I know now. I sorta knew it but fell for the $500 "License plate protection package." Guy said if I drive off the lot without it, I would not be able to say it wasn't offered. And could I live with myself, if something happened to my plate?

This guaranteed that if anything were to happen to your license plate, they will make sure you get a new one, free but not including shipping and handling and shop fees mandated by the dealer. Come to find (last November) the Commonwealth of PA replaces them for free

 

[macarose]

While I read this thread I received the following phone call.

"Hi there. Is the Saturn available?"

"Sure. Which one were you looking at?"

"You have more than one Saturn?"

"Yes, we have three of them?"

"Are you a dealer? It doesn't say so in the ad."

"Yes, if you scroll to the top of the ad it should say 'For Sale - By Dealer', then underneath it gives a description of who we are and what we do."

"I don't see where it says... (three minutes pass and he finally figures out what top of the ad actually means while telling me multiple times he doesn't want to buy from a dealer)."

I just sent him a link to the study I co-developed. I hope he finds it infinitely more useful than those three minutes of my life I just lost.

 

[CKN]

I purchased two vehicles in the past year. The first one- a 2020 F150 (used 26,000 miles) Lariat that was my first experience dealing with a independent dealership owned by one guy. He had the truck priced at high Bluebook-I countered with a similar truck at another dealership across town that was priced slightly lower. He came back slightly higher because his truck was lower miles. I bought the truck. The second purchase was at a larger Nissan dealership where I purchased a ever so slightly used (8,000 miles) 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE. I did all preliminary work over the Internet and met the Salesman-a very nice guy who said he would exceed "all my expectations". WHICH HE DID DO. The vehicle had a dinged up rear bumper by the hatchback and they repainted that at no charge. And a hood improperly aligned from the factory. They adjusted that as well. The vehicle was priced well on their website compared to others. In the finance office I had the opportunity to purchased extended warranties, etc. and just declined.

My trade in vehicles were appraised higher than my expectations-especially the 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe traded in on the Highlander.

I would have zero issues recommending either dealership (and sales person) to anybody else. I guess my (good) experiences are an anomaly on here concerning dealerships.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Is it a fair deal? That depends on which side of the deal you are on.
Regarding dealerhsips, I've been happy with a local mom-and-pop owned Lexus dealership. They seem to be aiming for repeat business. But I fully understand they are in the business of making money. I've bought 4 cars there; 3 new and 1 used.

Our Model 3 purchase, in Dec 2018, was a no haggle price. A similar car today is easily $10,000 cheaper. Am I upset? Well, no one twisted my arm to sign on the dotted line. Of course, I shoulda bought stock, but what do I know?

"Blame yourself!"

 

[CKN]

Is it a fair deal? That depends on which side of the deal you are on.

Disagree Jeff. Both parties can feel that got a fair deal. See my post above^^^^^

 

[demarpaint]

Common mistake is people negotiate off sticker price, or invoice, then get hosed for fees bringing the price right back up again. The only price that matters is the out the door price, how the dealer arrives at that price doesn't matter. I know what the price is with tax, and tags, to me that is all that matters. I laugh at people bragging they got 5%, or whatever under invoice. Then conveniently forget the doc fees, and any other fees the dealer tacked on erasing the discounts, quickly in fact. Again the only number that matters is what it costs to get the vehicle out the door. An educated customer can be a dealer's worst nightmare.

 

[John105]

Common mistake is people negotiate off sticker price, or invoice, then get hosed for fees bringing the price right back up again. The only price that matters is the out the door price, how the dealer arrives at that price doesn't matter. I know what the price is with tax, and tags, to me that is all that matters. I laugh at people bragging they got 5%, or whatever under invoice. Then conveniently forget the doc fees, and any other fees the dealer tacked on erasing the discounts, quickly in fact. Again the only number that matters is what it costs to get the vehicle out the door. An educated customer can be a dealer's worst nightmare.

2007 BMW.

Training and MACO not on sticker.

Not in edmunds.

Is on dealer screen for invoice.

It was $600 out of nowhere back then.

Out the door is what my dad did. He got a GM listing for $41 for $31 incl sales tax. He said to remove the pre printed fee and dmv fees as well, he’ll get his own tags. They don’t want that as now you’re not taking the car this instant, so they waived.

 

[bunnspecial]

There was a dealer in my home town who operated this way. He had a lot of repeat customers and rarely kept good cars on his lot very long, so it obviously worked for him. He kept the dealership open, albeit increasingly smaller, pretty much up until he died. Honestly, I miss him. He was a great guy and for the most part his door was open for people to just come in, have a seat, and BS with him or each other. And yes, too, his sticker prices were out the door prices, including tax and license.

If you were a repeat customer and he'd had the car long enough, he MIGHT knock $100 or $200 off the asking price, but if you'd dealt with him at all you knew better than to ask.

Honestly too it was kind of amazing to watch him work. There was never a computer on his desk or really even in his shop and of course he didn't do financing in-house, but had lists on his desk of current interest rates at all the banks in town. He did have a paper tape adding machine, but rarely even used that and could tell you payments in his head.

He would have fun, though, sometimes with people who came in insisting on beating him up over the price. He'd have the bottom line written down(only adjustment he'd make would of course be trade-in, which he'd look up in a paper NADA book) and if he had the time(rarely did he not) he'd cross out the price of the car, mark it up $500, and then say "If you really want to haggle that much, here's the new price, now you can haggle back down to where we started."

 

[Dave P.]

There is no trust on the side of the customer. For their entire lives dealerships have been trying to pull one over on them or people they know. Consequently customers like sales people will use every trick they can to get a better price whether that is playing the sympathy card, as in your example, or something else. I don't foresee the industry moving towards fixed pricing because the automakers need to keep their factories at capacity which means dealerships need to take on inventory. Saturn didn't do so well.

We bought a 2008 Saturn Outlook brand new just to avoid the haggle. Unfortunately, the car was trouble from the moment we bought it until it spun a crank bearing at slightly over 100,000 miles. Because of the numerous issues we had, decided not to repair it and unloaded it to Peddle.com. Can speak to the quality of other Saturn vehicles but if they were anything like ours, I'm not surprised they're gone.