Some of these stories remind me of when I was helping a friend sell their house. It was priced to sell, but people still wanted a discount. I told every single one of them that when I rejected their offer.
No haggle pricing vs. Negotiating
- Thread starter macarose
- Start date
Why?
Do you haggle with Apple or Samsung when buying a cell phone?
Best Buy when buying a TV?
Supermarket when buying a steak?
Haggle with Tesla?
The price is the price where is the fix because companies wont reduce if for you?
I do 100% think the auto industry itself is to blame for this whole horrible buying experience and is a major turn off.
They taught the public to think people who haggle get better prices.
Resellers like Car Max and Caravan put an end to that.
Tesla also moved things in that direction.
Last edited:
And that's a very big IF, because normally no haggle prices mean higher than average prices. Usually much higher that average.
There’s a 2004 movie, Slasher, that I think does a good job of portraying a used car salesman.
Guy lives in Huntington Beach, CA, and flies into a dealership for a weekend as a hired gun to move as much metal as he can.
"My job as a slasher, being a used car salesperson, liquidator, doing these auction sales...people automatically assume whatever I say, whatever comes out of my mouth is a lie" Meet Michael Bennett, better known as "The Slasher," a raspy-voiced family man who exudes so much nervous energy that he smokes two cigarettes at a time and can hardly stand still. When auto dealerships are desperate to dump their stale inventory as quickly as possible, the California-based Bennett is flown all over the country to slash prices and clear entire lots within a few short days. Director John Landis (The Blues Brothers, Animal House, An American Werewolf in London) brilliantly turns his comedic eye on one particularly off-the-wall weekend in the life of Bennett, as he's called upon to help a struggling dealership in Memphis, home to Elvis Presely and the bankruptcy capital of the world. Featuring a pitc-perfect Southern soul soundtrack, including forgotten favorites from Sam & Dave, Booker T. and the MG's, and Otis Redding, SLASHER is a frenetic, fascinating and intensely funny look at one man so tightly wound, he couldn't be anything other than a car salesman. DVD Features: Commentary from Director John Landis and Crew; Deleted Scenes; IFC 'Making of' Featurette; Crew Biographies; Interactive Menus; Scene Selection
Guy lives in Huntington Beach, CA, and flies into a dealership for a weekend as a hired gun to move as much metal as he can.
"My job as a slasher, being a used car salesperson, liquidator, doing these auction sales...people automatically assume whatever I say, whatever comes out of my mouth is a lie" Meet Michael Bennett, better known as "The Slasher," a raspy-voiced family man who exudes so much nervous energy that he smokes two cigarettes at a time and can hardly stand still. When auto dealerships are desperate to dump their stale inventory as quickly as possible, the California-based Bennett is flown all over the country to slash prices and clear entire lots within a few short days. Director John Landis (The Blues Brothers, Animal House, An American Werewolf in London) brilliantly turns his comedic eye on one particularly off-the-wall weekend in the life of Bennett, as he's called upon to help a struggling dealership in Memphis, home to Elvis Presely and the bankruptcy capital of the world. Featuring a pitc-perfect Southern soul soundtrack, including forgotten favorites from Sam & Dave, Booker T. and the MG's, and Otis Redding, SLASHER is a frenetic, fascinating and intensely funny look at one man so tightly wound, he couldn't be anything other than a car salesman. DVD Features: Commentary from Director John Landis and Crew; Deleted Scenes; IFC 'Making of' Featurette; Crew Biographies; Interactive Menus; Scene Selection
I've bought our last three vehicles from local used-car dealerships that appear to be run like yours - a reasonable price listed up front, no hard-sell on an extended warranty, and no added-on "special fees" that crop up at the last moment.
I've not felt any need to try to drive down the reasonable prices.
Not that it makes any difference to anyone, but when I hear people telling their stories about bullying and beating down the dealer on the price I lose all respect for them. I think to myself I wish someone would come along and devalue their work and bully and demean until they make very very little for whatever it is they do. After all, nobody deserves to make more than the bare minimum for their work, whether selling cars or whatever the jerk does who beat down the deal.
Owen Lucas
$100 Site Donor 2023
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2021
- Messages
- 3,006
I think you are an anomaly in the dealership world, a good anomaly.
Most people think they are getting a bad deal and have to negotiate, and they do it in what ever way they are capable of. I'm in it to get the lowest price, based on what other people have reported in certain price-paid threads on the models forum I want to buy. I negotiate nicely and work with multiple dealers.
Don't let these people get to you, the world is indeed getting nuttier and us getting older with higher expectations really widens the gap between crazy and logical. Adapt and improvise and don't take it personal.
There is no such thing as fair.
That’s fair.
I've bought two new cars, both from the same dealer. I used truecar, which is obviously just a customer referral service, but this dealer gave me a legit price, didn't play games, and the price beat what I could get elsewhere. The only haggling I did was made someone eat $750 worth of floor mats, door guards, and other tchotskies.
I got an amazing price both times but I credit timing the market and picking unpopular models.
Americans are terrible at negotiating and you see all types try it for the first time in years using various talking points. The "my kid is disabled" one is a cheap shot, OP isn't running a charity and few others are either. IMO the most polite way is to cut all emotion and just say "I can give you $XXX." If the shopper needs the item they'll be back if you're the best deal around. I don't get offended at in-person haggling. Messaging me ahead of time does come across as rude though because of the lack of effort/ interest involved.
I got an amazing price both times but I credit timing the market and picking unpopular models.
Americans are terrible at negotiating and you see all types try it for the first time in years using various talking points. The "my kid is disabled" one is a cheap shot, OP isn't running a charity and few others are either. IMO the most polite way is to cut all emotion and just say "I can give you $XXX." If the shopper needs the item they'll be back if you're the best deal around. I don't get offended at in-person haggling. Messaging me ahead of time does come across as rude though because of the lack of effort/ interest involved.
The only new car I bought I researched and test drove at a dealer to confirm it was the one. I knew what car, model, features and color I wanted. I then did all the “haggling” in emails across a few dealers. This is what I want, what’s the best OTD price? The dealer that was most responsive to my requests was also the best priced. Once a price was agreed upon they emailed me a copy of what the total OTD cost was. I agreed. We set up a time to meet and made the deal. Easy and drama free. No back and forth for 2 hours. The deal agreed to was waiting for me to sign when I got there.
Don’t walk into a dealer not knowing what vehicle you want, what options there are and what color. You’re walking into a highly emotional situation in the dark. Bad idea. It’s like waking into a final exam without having studied, and you forgot a pen and calculator.
Don’t walk into a dealer not knowing what vehicle you want, what options there are and what color. You’re walking into a highly emotional situation in the dark. Bad idea. It’s like waking into a final exam without having studied, and you forgot a pen and calculator.
I remember buying my one daughter a new Honda Civic back in 2007, Went to a dealer and he gave us a price on an LX model and they said they don't haggle because they give "market rate" for their vehicles and they don't need to haggle because the cars sell themselves. I thanked him and went to another dealer "across the river" about 10 miles away.
Went in to talk to salesman, started dickering with the guy for what he had on lot, he looked an my daughter and said who is buying this car, you or your father? She said she was but he does the dealing. He laughed, offered me a water, after about 1/2 hour she purchased a new EX model for about $1800 bucks cheaper than the LX.
About 2-3 days later the original salesman calls her and said he could do another 1k or so on the LX. She thanked him and told him that she already got the EX much cheaper. Fast forward to today and the daughter could out haggle any person I know of.
I told my daughter they always give a line that they are not making money or much off of a sale yet they still sell it. At a loss?? Right!!!
Went in to talk to salesman, started dickering with the guy for what he had on lot, he looked an my daughter and said who is buying this car, you or your father? She said she was but he does the dealing. He laughed, offered me a water, after about 1/2 hour she purchased a new EX model for about $1800 bucks cheaper than the LX.
About 2-3 days later the original salesman calls her and said he could do another 1k or so on the LX. She thanked him and told him that she already got the EX much cheaper. Fast forward to today and the daughter could out haggle any person I know of.
I told my daughter they always give a line that they are not making money or much off of a sale yet they still sell it. At a loss?? Right!!!
Keep being up front and honest.
Also remember that a few people are like me and will come in and say outrageous things to be funny. Don't get offended by us, just laugh. I cannot deal with people who don't have a sense of humor.
When buying my new Porsche, I looked at the sales lady after she gave me an out the door price, smiled, and said ' ya but that's for normal people, me I get 90% off right?'
We both had a good laugh.
Yes I bought it.
Bought a new ATV this spring.
While looking at it I was wearing dirty boots.
After sitting on it for a while the footrest area was dirty.
I looked at the salesman and said ' this thing looks used, its filthy.'
He smiled and said to me ' I'll throw in a free rag on the deal so you can wipe it down'. Yes I bought it by the way.
Sales people, waitresses, and stewardesses, all need to remember to keep a sense of humor.
Also remember that a few people are like me and will come in and say outrageous things to be funny. Don't get offended by us, just laugh. I cannot deal with people who don't have a sense of humor.
When buying my new Porsche, I looked at the sales lady after she gave me an out the door price, smiled, and said ' ya but that's for normal people, me I get 90% off right?'
We both had a good laugh.
Yes I bought it.
Bought a new ATV this spring.
While looking at it I was wearing dirty boots.
After sitting on it for a while the footrest area was dirty.
I looked at the salesman and said ' this thing looks used, its filthy.'
He smiled and said to me ' I'll throw in a free rag on the deal so you can wipe it down'. Yes I bought it by the way.
Sales people, waitresses, and stewardesses, all need to remember to keep a sense of humor.
JHZR2
Staff member
This isn’t hard. There’s MSRP, which is a recommended price. There’s an invoice price that in theory is what the dealer pays, and then some hold back or other money in the sale in some cases. Plus whatever up charges, financing, dealer coalition costs, etc. that may exist.
If OP has a used car lot instead, then there’s a different spread in terms of what was paid for the used vehicle. But same principle.
Places like carmax and the concept of no haggle buying cater to the feminization of society. They are in no way a good deal. They thrive on the perspective of some that buying is adversarial, which some folks can’t take. Especially in the age of thin skinned people who can talk strong behind a social media app, but can’t function in public.
OP may think they are giving a “fair” deal, because it’s fair to them. It’s their prerogative to not make a sale. But money isn’t made with idle inventory. It’s also not made if they can’t cover their costs and operating expenses. Seems OP knows what that needs to be, and sets pricing accordingly.
The customer coming in trying to get “a deal” is no different than op or another person selling and being unwilling to budge. Both think they’re getting what’s fair, likely against the better judgement of the other party. Both probably think they’re smarter and somehow superior to the other. You can see it in the tone of some of the posts.
Being educated in the market pricing is what matters. That and being able to do math. Having a level of maturity and ability to walk also helps. Around 50% of the population is below average, but that includes the consumers and salespeople/business owners.
It’s far from definite that anyone selling anything is pricing it at as favorable of terms for the customer as they can. That may be ok, maybe not. It may be a good deal, maybe not. But it’s not a moral or operational superiority to have a price and being unwilling to budge, regardless of how “good” one thinks their pricing is.
Nor is squeezing every last penny out of a deal, “just because”…
If OP has a used car lot instead, then there’s a different spread in terms of what was paid for the used vehicle. But same principle.
Places like carmax and the concept of no haggle buying cater to the feminization of society. They are in no way a good deal. They thrive on the perspective of some that buying is adversarial, which some folks can’t take. Especially in the age of thin skinned people who can talk strong behind a social media app, but can’t function in public.
OP may think they are giving a “fair” deal, because it’s fair to them. It’s their prerogative to not make a sale. But money isn’t made with idle inventory. It’s also not made if they can’t cover their costs and operating expenses. Seems OP knows what that needs to be, and sets pricing accordingly.
The customer coming in trying to get “a deal” is no different than op or another person selling and being unwilling to budge. Both think they’re getting what’s fair, likely against the better judgement of the other party. Both probably think they’re smarter and somehow superior to the other. You can see it in the tone of some of the posts.
Being educated in the market pricing is what matters. That and being able to do math. Having a level of maturity and ability to walk also helps. Around 50% of the population is below average, but that includes the consumers and salespeople/business owners.
It’s far from definite that anyone selling anything is pricing it at as favorable of terms for the customer as they can. That may be ok, maybe not. It may be a good deal, maybe not. But it’s not a moral or operational superiority to have a price and being unwilling to budge, regardless of how “good” one thinks their pricing is.
Nor is squeezing every last penny out of a deal, “just because”…
Last edited:
At this point, haggling the price at a car dealer is a well ingrained custom that probably will not die easily.
LOL! A short story for you. I was going to a MIL school out in Sacramento, California in the early 1970s and one day another one of the other instructors came in and asked if anyone was interested in buying a car. Being a car nut I said maybe and what to do you have. It turned out that he had a 1957 Toyopet. Toyopet is what they called Toyotas before they were Toyotas and 1957 is one year before they started importing them to the US. To get to the point, I bought it for $45 and it ran. I tuned it up and it ran VERY well! People used to look at it and claim that they didn't think it would run so I would bet them $5 that I could start it instantly without any trouble and they always took me up on that bet. I would reach in through the window and take the car out of gear, pull the choke button out and the fast idle button out about half way and then put the key into the ignition and turn it and the engine always started instantly. I drove the car all over the place and I always won the bets and people were always wanting to buy the car from me. I had paid $45 for it and I had put in about $5 worth of parts so I told them that I would sell it for $50. But by that time I had had it long enough that by then everyone knew what I had paid for it and they all acted like I was trying to rob them! After a while I got tired of listening to that so I put an ad in the local paper and said that I wanted $75 for it. The girl that took the ad was rather amazed and asked if it ran and I told her that it did and I told her about it. She called her boyfriend and told him about and he came out to look at it before the ad even came out in the local paper. He looked it over and I showed how it started (remotely) and he drove it around and then rather hesitantly asked "Will you take $70 for it?" I immediately said yes and the deal was done and I got more than what I wanted for it in the first place.
Sometimes you just have to play the game and let the other person think that they're winning.
I would say that anyone that deals with the public has to keep a sense of humor if they want to be successful when dealing with them. You don't necessarily have to be funny but you need to roll with the punchs and not be easily offended. People will often test you, either intentionally or not, but you have to be able to smile and laugh it off even if you're furious inside.
I've only ever dealt with pretty decent to very good dealerships. It takes very little for me to scratch a dealership off my list which happens at the first sign of nonsense regardless of how far we are into the deal. With the internet, it is so easy to know exactly what people are paying in your area for the exact model. There really should be no surprises but this knowledge cuts both ways - I don't also go into it expecting a huge discount and I know the dealership has to make some money too. Salespeople who understand this have found I can wrap a deal up in a few hours with most of that time being me waiting on them.
I sold cars at a Lexus Dealership and a VW Dealership. From my experiences and learning from the owners and people who have been in the industry car dealerships back in the day (70s and 80s) made huge markup. Now from what I've been told dealerships can make as little as $3 thousand profit off of a vehicle. Supposedly a base model VW Jetta loses a dealership $700 per vehicle.
Buying a car is an excruciating experience. I know what I want but never know how much I should pay. I always feel that the price I am offered is only an opening position and what I will have to pay depends on how well I can negotiate. If I don't do a very good job I will pay too much.
And then they'll add on some extra costs at the end. So the only price I'll even discuss now is the out the door final price. They can put the numbers on whatever line they like - it doesn't matter to me. Then I write a cheque for the full amount. That part is simple.
If I take my wife along she has strict instructions to not say a word. She doesn't like the tension in a negotiation and that has cost me money in the past.
All in all I preferred buying the Tesla. The price is the price. That's what you pay and anyone who buys a Tesla pays it too.
And then they'll add on some extra costs at the end. So the only price I'll even discuss now is the out the door final price. They can put the numbers on whatever line they like - it doesn't matter to me. Then I write a cheque for the full amount. That part is simple.
If I take my wife along she has strict instructions to not say a word. She doesn't like the tension in a negotiation and that has cost me money in the past.
All in all I preferred buying the Tesla. The price is the price. That's what you pay and anyone who buys a Tesla pays it too.
