No haggle pricing vs. Negotiating

[SC Maintenance]

Some day when I am retired and have lots of time, I am going to go to a car dealer, and spend the entire day negotiating a price on a car. Then, hours in, when I finally get the last nickel out of them, I am going to tell them "just kidding, I never wanted it anyway", and leave. Truly, that's how I feel, the whole process is such a waste of time.

 

[supton]

No love for haggling here. New cars are a commodity; I don't go to the grocery store and haggle there. Used, fine, maybe there's a point there, but dislike it on new.

Starting to get at dealing the backend guy. Not there yet with the frontend though. Problem is... in order to get good, you have a waste a lot of money buying cars. If you buy and hold for 10, 20 years... then you only get to practice every 10 to 20 years. How do you hone a skill with such little practice?

 

[totegoat]

I enjoy buying new vehicles.

 

[PandaBear]

I have owned a dealership for over 20 years and always kept my pricing structure painfully simple.

No haggling. No bogus fees. Tell the customer everything they will ever need to know so that they can make an informed decision.

We do everything we can to provide customers with the prior maintenance and Carfax histories, and since I co-developed the Long-Term Quality Index and am a bit of a quality nut, I try to give them sound advice and tell them about the enthusiast forums that will help keep their cars on the road.

For me it's simple common sense. A simple mathematical formula for buying and keeping a car.

Eliminating uncertainty + full disclosure = A confident customer.

A lot of folks are perfectly happy with this. But a few misguided souls these days seem to be afflicted with this disrespectful and poisonous mindset that comes from fake reality shows like Pawn Stars and Hardcore Pawn.

Here were a few I met this past weekend. That one snarky customer who constantly lowballed me even after I respectfully told them no thanks. The parent who makes their overgrown child out to be a charity case, and then wants us to offer a discount just because their kid made some unfortunate life decisions. Parenting is hard. I get that. This one though in particular really grinds my gears because I have seen real hardship in this world that goes beyond first-world problems. Unless you're bleeding, starving or dying please don't come to a complete stranger like me with a sob story to cover up your crass cheapness. I can't afford that in my life.

The one that always has me scratching my head is that one customer who tells you, "that's all I have!" Then they offer more 15 seconds later only to be told once again, "Look, we don't charge bogus fees. The price you see online is what we will always sell the car for. If you want the car feel free to let me know."

I get that it's a generational thing and a media driven us-vs.-them attitude. I also get that crappy and overpriced cars have a different set of rules. What I don't get is disrespect for those you don't even know. Life's too short.

Am I getting old? Or is this world getting nuttier by the day?

There are just people like that in the world, always asking and never thinking. They probably grew up seeing their parents do it or they got away with it from their families, it is not your problem to fix them.

I like your kind of dealership.

 

[fdcg27]

The dealer wants you to pay as much as they can get out of you and you want to pay as little as you can to buy the car.
If you have some good pricing information in hand when you visit a dealer then you can probably get them down to the lowest price at which they'll sell you the car.
If things get unpleasant you can always head for the door.
You owe them as much as they owe you.
Nothing.

 

[proveitwithdata]

Personally new car shopping is easiest when you are an informed emotionally unattached customer.
Present them an offer you have researched down to the options, stock number, purchase/lease terms, thus making it a simple deal for the manager who will either respond yes or no via email.

The more the dealership spends time on working the deal for you, the more they want to be reimbursed for their time, which ends up costing you more.

 

[proveitwithdata]

Some day when I am retired and have lots of time, I am going to go to a car dealer, and spend the entire day negotiating a price on a car. Then, hours in, when I finally get the last nickel out of them, I am going to tell them "just kidding, I never wanted it anyway", and leave. Truly, that's how I feel, the whole process is such a waste of time.

My favorite though is wanting to walk into a dealership, and slapping the hood of a new car and yelling "who wants to sell me a car today"?

That usually the best way to make a deal?

/s i have to add this or i assume some bitoger might take this seriously

 

[proveitwithdata]

Buying a car is an excruciating experience. I know what I want but never know how much I should pay. I always feel that the price I am offered is only an opening position and what I will have to pay depends on how well I can negotiate. If I don't do a very good job I will pay too much.

And then they'll add on some extra costs at the end. So the only price I'll even discuss now is the out the door final price. They can put the numbers on whatever line they like - it doesn't matter to me. Then I write a cheque for the full amount. That part is simple.

If I take my wife along she has strict instructions to not say a word. She doesn't like the tension in a negotiation and that has cost me money in the past.

All in all I preferred buying the Tesla. The price is the price. That's what you pay and anyone who buys a Tesla pays it too.

I always wondered the psychology behind that. Why when purchasing a vehicle, must everyone be a winner or no one gets to be a winner type mentality? If i took more time and effort to get to a better purchase price, why must you be rewarded with the same purchase price with zero effort?

This happens with Tesla folks as well, most recently with price drops and currently with the eoy push? Folks were complaining for Tesla being unfair after slashing prices 20% a couple of hours after delivery or adding discounts to push built inventory before 2024.

Finally, when it comes to the one price model, some legacy dealers do this, for example subie. Folks come in, told of their policy, and then begin to balk at the a set price since they dont feel like a winner? Msrp is a bad deal with zero fees.

 

[LDB]

I'd really like it if these cutthroat people who talk cut them down ever last dollar had the same thing done to them at their work and in their pay envelopes. I want a fair deal when I buy a car. I don't have to have the last dollar possible. A fair deal. But so many, as exemplified here, aren't interested in fair. I really wish it happened to them at their work also.

 

[JustN89]

The reality is that people just don't trust dealerships, and that's a result of decades upon decades of dealerships earning that mistrust.

 

[wemay]

I'd always prefer "no haggle" . Everyone knows where the stand.

 

[John105]

Well, think about it. No haggle has a margin built in to every vehicle. Just like a $130 air filter replacement (buddy texted me Honda “recommended services” list from this week—he didn’t haggle, he declined).

I’ve only purchased 4 vehicles in my life, from new car dealers. No experience with used car dealers, and all private party sales were 3 new was ordered, 1/4 was used.

In all 4 cases I negotiated. The Nissan and the Buick took 5 min each, no test drives. The BMW took at least 1 hour total and 2 visits. The Lexus was used and I got a minimal amount off—asking $14,700, sell $14,000.

Why did the Nissan and Buick take 5 min? Because I did all the back and forth at other dealerships, and reached the point where they said please let us know if we can assist you in the future. This means the price went below their price at which they were willing to sell me the vehicle. Usually this means they are confident someone else will pay more, or, that I will pay more when they follow up with a call in the next few days. I simply took the price and offered it on identically equipped vehicles on the lot, at the new dealerships. Offer accepted immediately. It was the same to them, a bird in hand in 5 min.

The BMW was totally different. Nobody had a car in stock in the nation. Only a stick and an auto for test drives. This is the E92 335 in October 2006. The forum said $0 to $1800 off list (I’ll get to why), so I simply offered $1800 off list which was not accepted. 2 days later got a phone call we have an allocation from a person who canceled and we’ll accept $1800 off. Bird in hand.

One week later I get a phone call “Marcy forgot the training and MACO fees (legit) so you need to come back and redo the paperwork for $1400 more.”

Go ahead and google training and MACO. Not sure if this exists in 2023, and BMW buyer can tell us.

I said go ahead and cancel my sale and give the allocation to someone else, I don’t go for that trick. They said it’s not a trick come in I’ll show you my screen. I said no thank you. So they left the order as is and I got the car nine weeks later.

When people say they don’t want to haggle, does this extend to houses and other dealings in life? Would they have added $1400 to a BMW purchase because the dealer “forgot?”

Haggle doesn’t mean be rude and disrespectful. It means to protect one’s interest, as I do care what others are paying. I want to pay less, not more. This doesn’t mean I insist on $86k out the door on a Rolls Royce, when that’s the going rate on a new Tahoe. It means if I know what others paid for a new Tahoe, I want to be at the low end of that range.

 

[supton]

I'd really like it if these cutthroat people who talk cut them down ever last dollar had the same thing done to them at their work and in their pay envelopes. I want a fair deal when I buy a car. I don't have to have the last dollar possible. A fair deal. But so many, as exemplified here, aren't interested in fair. I really wish it happened to them at their work also.

Datapoint of one here. No good with haggling, and have never asked for a pay raise. The only real haggling I’ve done was on home buying, and that was with a middle man (well, middle woman) handling the transaction, so it was under their guidance. Not exactly the same.

Things change though—in this new modern era, apparently it’s not the norm to stick with a job for more than a handful of years. Instead one job hops and presumably for more pay.

 

[John105]

Datapoint of one here. No good with haggling, and have never asked for a pay raise. The only real haggling I’ve done was on home buying, and that was with a middle man (well, middle woman) handling the transaction, so it was under their guidance. Not exactly the same.

Things change though—in this new modern era, apparently it’s not the norm to stick with a job for more than a handful of years. Instead one job hops and presumably for more pay.

I’m a little like you at work, been at my job 13 years and my role was eliminated in 2015. I’ve simply kept my nose to the grindstone. Not looking and no plans to get a different job at this stage of my career.

I always notice inconsistency, like when I forfeited $2700 in FSA in 2020 due to my employers mistake. The IRS allowed for changes to FSA that year, so I went online and changed it to $0 per pay.

The snot nose (can I say that) HR manager terminated me 8/31/20. I got an email in November that my FSA balance is $2700 and my last day to use the funds is 8/31/20. The HR manager did not admit she made a mistake. Instead, she said, “I will see what, if anything, can be done.” She is the only person who was devoid of any feeling nor did she feel she had made a mistake. Everyone else said that’s a mistake you’ll get the funds back. This is what happens when a 28 yo is made AVP blah blah blah. My position is fixing the mistake is not a negotiation you better do it. But I didn’t say it in those words. I said those funds are important to me and my family and I need you to restore them.

Again, some may see it as groveling or haggling, but imho it’s not. We live in a world where we have to put in the work. No one is going to do it for us. Resources are severely constrained today.

 

[Jdeere562]

Haggling is pretty easy sitting at home, in front of your computer with a cold beer in hand after work.

Last SUV I bought was a 2018 Subaru Forester, brand new. I had never even sat in a Subaru before, much less driven one. Never ever went into the dealership. Had them deliver it to my work and cut them a check. Friend said I was a "high stake" gambler, and I probably was, but liked the SUV. Saw a guy at work had one, and liked the looks. He lived up a large hill and bragged on the AWD. So I bought one and have no regrets.

 

[SNWMBL]

Most dealerships are crooks, just look at the financing, they will try and finance you the highest rate possible. I’ve known people to walk out of a dealer with a loan for 15+% when a local credit union would be half that. When I bought my truck new in 2015, the payment the dealer came back with was absurd, I did some quick math in my head knowing the interest rate had to be high, they had me at over 10%. I told them I had good credit and I wasn’t taking a loan over 3% period, few minutes later got a loan thru local credit union for 2.75%. Most dealerships take advantage of people that don’t know any better and they could care less.

 

[supton]

Most dealerships are crooks, just look at the financing, they will try and finance you the highest rate possible. I’ve known people to walk out of a dealer with a loan for 15+% when a local credit union would be half that. When I bought my truck new in 2015, the payment the dealer came back with was absurd, I did some quick math in my head knowing the interest rate had to be high, they had me at over 10%. I told them I had good credit and I wasn’t taking a loan over 3% period, few minutes later got a loan thru local credit union for 2.75%. Most dealerships take advantage of people that don’t know any better and they could care less.

How do you know that they would get a better rate at a local credit union? What if they have bad credit and that what they got is reasonable? Put differently, how do you know their credit score?

That said, I do know the dealer can add a percent or whatever to the loan, and get a bit of that action, forget what that is called. I can’t blame them, they are in the business of making money. Either on an upfront high purchase cost, backend add-ons, or perhaps on financing. Perhaps they live for the days of a home run where they score on all, including lowballing the trade-in.

At that point, who’s fault is it for getting taken for a ride?

 

[SNWMBL]

Stupid people pay stupid prices. Trust me, I’m not a sympathetic individual. No one is forced to buy a vehicle and everyone has to sign the dotted line and own the choice they made. But this thread was about “fair” dealer practices and having a customer believe the interest rate they are given is the only rate available is dishonest and why dealers have a terrible reputation.

When I looked at my salesman, I told him I would not walk out of the dealer with a rate above 3%, magically they came back at 2.75% when initially having me over 10% which they didn’t even tell me the rate. They just gave me the payment number hoping I’d accept it. I’d have gone to another dealer but living in Alaska they all suck and the price on the truck was good.

 

[ecotourist]

A number of years ago friends were interested in buying a new car. They aren't car people. They knew I had been researching Honda Accords and assumed that if I thought they were good cars, they would be good cars. They didn't even care what colour it was. They asked how much they should pay. I told them what I thought would be a good price.

They went to the dealership, pulled a salesman aside and said they wanted to buy a car. "We'll pay you xx for a new Honda Accord". He said "Come into my office and let's talk". "We can't sell one for that price, not even close". My friends smiled and restated what they were willing to pay. There were many trips to talk to the sales manager (probably about golf or their kids birthday parties - who knows). My friends just smiled and restated their original offer. After about an hour of this back and forth they got the car for exactly that original offer.

Afterwards they said it had been the best buying experience of their lives. They knew exactly what would be a good price and wouldn't budge. The only question for the dealer was "do you want to sell a car?"

So how to know what's a good price? In the US, Consumer Reports can tell you what a particular model sells for (not just the MSRP, but what they actually sell for). There might be a small charge for that information. That information is of no value in Canada because our prices are different (higher) so I haven't looked into that service.

 

[proveitwithdata]

How do you know that they would get a better rate at a local credit union? What if they have bad credit and that what they got is reasonable? Put differently, how do you know their credit score?

That said, I do know the dealer can add a percent or whatever to the loan, and get a bit of that action, forget what that is called. I can’t blame them, they are in the business of making money. Either on an upfront high purchase cost, backend add-ons, or perhaps on financing. Perhaps they live for the days of a home run where they score on all, including lowballing the trade-in.

At that point, who’s fault is it for getting taken for a ride?

The issue here is relying on the dealer to spoonfeed you for free, as you said they are in the business of making money.

Folks can acquire everything they need from the comfort of their home, by simply going on the interwebs and finding a credit union that offers them a good rate. Plus multiple credit runs before the purchase of a car act as only one strike against your credit.

If you feel like negotiating the back end, you can tell the finance mgr whether they can match or even beat the rate. Sometimes you will surprised.