Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
Pretty soon it'll be used only for motorcycles and lawnmowers.
No 0w- in high performance engines?
- Thread starter ChristianReske
- Start date
- Status
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Pretty soon it'll be used only for motorcycles and lawnmowers.
Last time I was looking at a lawnmower was my dad's Craftsman with a B&S. That thing was old school - recommending SAE 30 for most conditions. I remember buying dad a bunch of Chevron SAE 30 for 60 cents a quart after rebate for that, although I'm not sure if he ever used it. The really odd thing was that they recommended a synthetic 5W-30 for use in colder temps.
Pretty soon it'll be used only for motorcycles and lawnmowers.
Last time I was looking at a lawnmower was my dad's Craftsman with a B&S. That thing was old school - recommending SAE 30 for most conditions. I remember buying dad a bunch of Chevron SAE 30 for 60 cents a quart after rebate for that, although I'm not sure if he ever used it. The really odd thing was that they recommended a synthetic 5W-30 for use in colder temps.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by y_p_w
The really odd thing was that they recommended a synthetic 5W-30 for use in colder temps.
That's not odd since straight 30 gets pretty thick and makes for hard starting in cold weather.
Sure. But it wasn't just that but that they said it needed to be "synthetic". I suppose they thought that maybe a "conventional" multi weight would get cooked easily but a "synthetic" wouldn't. Not even sure what their recommendations are these days.
OK - looked it up. Maybe they had a wider range of recommendations, but it looks like they say a "conventional" 5W-30 only for temps where SAE 30 is too cold.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.briggsandstratton.com/content/dam/briggsandstratton/na/en_us/Images/Support/FAQs/Oil_rec_chart.jpg "[Linked Image]")
Originally Posted by y_p_w
The really odd thing was that they recommended a synthetic 5W-30 for use in colder temps.
That's not odd since straight 30 gets pretty thick and makes for hard starting in cold weather.
Sure. But it wasn't just that but that they said it needed to be "synthetic". I suppose they thought that maybe a "conventional" multi weight would get cooked easily but a "synthetic" wouldn't. Not even sure what their recommendations are these days.
OK - looked it up. Maybe they had a wider range of recommendations, but it looks like they say a "conventional" 5W-30 only for temps where SAE 30 is too cold.
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by y_p_w
The really odd thing was that they recommended a synthetic 5W-30 for use in colder temps.
That's not odd since straight 30 gets pretty thick and makes for hard starting in cold weather.
Sure. But it wasn't just that but that they said it needed to be "synthetic". I suppose they thought that maybe a "conventional" multi weight would get cooked easily but a "synthetic" wouldn't. Not even sure what their recommendations are these days.
OK - looked it up. Maybe they had a wider range of recommendations, but it looks like they say a "conventional" 5W-30 only for temps where SAE 30 is too cold.
I'm surprised that the 5W-30 conventional isn't shown for use above 40F when 10W-30 is. 5W-30 synthetic would be the way to go IMO
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by y_p_w
The really odd thing was that they recommended a synthetic 5W-30 for use in colder temps.
That's not odd since straight 30 gets pretty thick and makes for hard starting in cold weather.
Sure. But it wasn't just that but that they said it needed to be "synthetic". I suppose they thought that maybe a "conventional" multi weight would get cooked easily but a "synthetic" wouldn't. Not even sure what their recommendations are these days.
OK - looked it up. Maybe they had a wider range of recommendations, but it looks like they say a "conventional" 5W-30 only for temps where SAE 30 is too cold.
I'm surprised that the 5W-30 conventional isn't shown for use above 40F when 10W-30 is. 5W-30 synthetic would be the way to go IMO
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I'm surprised that the 5W-30 conventional isn't shown for use above 40F when 10W-30 is. 5W-30 synthetic would be the way to go IMO
Is SAE 30 common these days? I remember getting it about 12 years ago. I don't pay enough attention to heavy duty oil any more. I do remember my uncle was a big believer in using SAE 30 back when 10W-30 and 10W-40 were the common motor oils. I think it was also back when a quart might have been cheaper than multiweights. It was in California with mild winters, but I don't believe that was a recommendation even 30 years ago.
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I'm surprised that the 5W-30 conventional isn't shown for use above 40F when 10W-30 is. 5W-30 synthetic would be the way to go IMO
Is SAE 30 common these days? I remember getting it about 12 years ago. I don't pay enough attention to heavy duty oil any more. I do remember my uncle was a big believer in using SAE 30 back when 10W-30 and 10W-40 were the common motor oils. I think it was also back when a quart might have been cheaper than multiweights. It was in California with mild winters, but I don't believe that was a recommendation even 30 years ago.
Thanks for your input rod.
I spoke to Penrite who advised that so long as I'm not burning oil, to stick to their 5w30 Racing in my s2000.
They also said not to add mos2 or any of their additives to it. Torn, because I love my mos2!
I spoke to Penrite who advised that so long as I'm not burning oil, to stick to their 5w30 Racing in my s2000.
They also said not to add mos2 or any of their additives to it. Torn, because I love my mos2!
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I'm surprised that the 5W-30 conventional isn't shown for use above 40F when 10W-30 is. 5W-30 synthetic would be the way to go IMO
Is SAE 30 common these days? I remember getting it about 12 years ago. I don't pay enough attention to heavy duty oil any more. I do remember my uncle was a big believer in using SAE 30 back when 10W-30 and 10W-40 were the common motor oils. I think it was also back when a quart might have been cheaper than multiweights. It was in California with mild winters, but I don't believe that was a recommendation even 30 years ago.
Straight SAE 30 is hard to find these days. Walmart use to carry it in my area, but no more. Found some at Autozone, and they only had one brand - STP.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I'm surprised that the 5W-30 conventional isn't shown for use above 40F when 10W-30 is. 5W-30 synthetic would be the way to go IMO
Is SAE 30 common these days? I remember getting it about 12 years ago. I don't pay enough attention to heavy duty oil any more. I do remember my uncle was a big believer in using SAE 30 back when 10W-30 and 10W-40 were the common motor oils. I think it was also back when a quart might have been cheaper than multiweights. It was in California with mild winters, but I don't believe that was a recommendation even 30 years ago.
Straight SAE 30 is hard to find these days. Walmart use to carry it in my area, but no more. Found some at Autozone, and they only had one brand - STP.
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I'm surprised that the 5W-30 conventional isn't shown for use above 40F when 10W-30 is. 5W-30 synthetic would be the way to go IMO
Is SAE 30 common these days? I remember getting it about 12 years ago. I don't pay enough attention to heavy duty oil any more. I do remember my uncle was a big believer in using SAE 30 back when 10W-30 and 10W-40 were the common motor oils. I think it was also back when a quart might have been cheaper than multiweights. It was in California with mild winters, but I don't believe that was a recommendation even 30 years ago.
Sae 30 is still easy to find here in Texas and other states in the south. I imagine 0w40 would be great to use all year long.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by y_p_w
I'm surprised that the 5W-30 conventional isn't shown for use above 40F when 10W-30 is. 5W-30 synthetic would be the way to go IMO
Is SAE 30 common these days? I remember getting it about 12 years ago. I don't pay enough attention to heavy duty oil any more. I do remember my uncle was a big believer in using SAE 30 back when 10W-30 and 10W-40 were the common motor oils. I think it was also back when a quart might have been cheaper than multiweights. It was in California with mild winters, but I don't believe that was a recommendation even 30 years ago.
Sae 30 is still easy to find here in Texas and other states in the south. I imagine 0w40 would be great to use all year long.
Last edited:
At least in my area, SAE 30 isn't as readily available as 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, etc. But it can still be readily had in multiple brands at some stores.
Menards stocks FormulaShell, Quaker State, Briggs & Stratton, but usually they're found in the OPE section instead of automotive with the rest of the oils. Blain's Farm & Fleet also has Citgo Supergard. Not well-stocked at Advance Auto Parts, AutoZone, Meijer, etc.
Menards stocks FormulaShell, Quaker State, Briggs & Stratton, but usually they're found in the OPE section instead of automotive with the rest of the oils. Blain's Farm & Fleet also has Citgo Supergard. Not well-stocked at Advance Auto Parts, AutoZone, Meijer, etc.
Originally Posted by AP9
At least in my area, SAE 30 isn't as readily available.
Sure it is, you'll find it in the 'Lawn Mower' & 'Small Engines' Section of the parts store. Or stroll on down to your local tractor dealer and buy it by the 1000L pod
Not saying you should use it in an S2000, but that it's still available pretty much everywhere.
IN answer to he original question I'll echo what's already been said.
Nothing wrong with using 0WXX oils. Especially today with far better base stocks and tech. All the startup benefits of a 0W, with the correct 100°C viscosity. What's not to like. Sure, they tend to be a little more expensive, but if you're a member on this forum, that's not likely to be an issue.
Regards
Jordan
At least in my area, SAE 30 isn't as readily available.
Sure it is, you'll find it in the 'Lawn Mower' & 'Small Engines' Section of the parts store. Or stroll on down to your local tractor dealer and buy it by the 1000L pod
IN answer to he original question I'll echo what's already been said.
Nothing wrong with using 0WXX oils. Especially today with far better base stocks and tech. All the startup benefits of a 0W, with the correct 100°C viscosity. What's not to like. Sure, they tend to be a little more expensive, but if you're a member on this forum, that's not likely to be an issue.
Regards
Jordan
Thanks so far.
To getting this interesting threat a little bit back to my original questions, all you guys ar sure that one can use 0w- oils in high performance applications?
I can combat VI Improvers that shear down quickly just with shorter OCIs?
On thing puzzels me, still. All Motorcycle engines dont use 0w-oils, but i think it´s purely because the engine oil has to lube the gearbox to and that this stress is really to much for the VI improvers in a 0w-40 oil, right?
To getting this interesting threat a little bit back to my original questions, all you guys ar sure that one can use 0w- oils in high performance applications?
I can combat VI Improvers that shear down quickly just with shorter OCIs?
On thing puzzels me, still. All Motorcycle engines dont use 0w-oils, but i think it´s purely because the engine oil has to lube the gearbox to and that this stress is really to much for the VI improvers in a 0w-40 oil, right?
Last edited:
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted by ChristianReske
Thanks so far.
To getting this interesting threat a little bit back to my original questions, all you guys ar sure that one can use 0w- oils in high performance applications?
I can combat VI Improvers that shear down quickly just with shorter OCIs?
On thing puzzels me, still. All Motorcycle engines dont use 0w-oils, but i think it´s purely because the engine oil has to lube the gearbox to and that this stress is really to much for the VI improvers in a 0w-40 oil, right?
Motorcycles typically aren't operated in the winter.
Snowmobiles, which have similar engines, do in fact call for 0w-xx.
Thanks so far.
To getting this interesting threat a little bit back to my original questions, all you guys ar sure that one can use 0w- oils in high performance applications?
I can combat VI Improvers that shear down quickly just with shorter OCIs?
On thing puzzels me, still. All Motorcycle engines dont use 0w-oils, but i think it´s purely because the engine oil has to lube the gearbox to and that this stress is really to much for the VI improvers in a 0w-40 oil, right?
Motorcycles typically aren't operated in the winter.
Snowmobiles, which have similar engines, do in fact call for 0w-xx.
Thats a VERY interesting information! Thanks!
I called Amsoil tech line today to inquire about their recommendation for my High Performance LS engine with high pressure valve springs, 11:1 compression and high RPM usage.I specifically asked about the difference,in protection between 0w30 5w30 and 10w30. I was told there is no loss or gain of protection between the 3 weights. They recommended using Signature Series 0w30.
Originally Posted by Paulfix
I called Amsoil tech line today to inquire about their recommendation for my High Performance LS engine with high pressure valve springs, 11:1 compression and high RPM usage.I specifically asked about the difference,in protection between 0w30 5w30 and 10w30. I was told there is no loss or gain of protection between the 3 weights. They recommended using Signature Series 0w30.
I haven't seen any UOA's here of signature series 0w30 where it didn't stand up to the task as well as 5w30 and 10w30. Just FWIW.
I called Amsoil tech line today to inquire about their recommendation for my High Performance LS engine with high pressure valve springs, 11:1 compression and high RPM usage.I specifically asked about the difference,in protection between 0w30 5w30 and 10w30. I was told there is no loss or gain of protection between the 3 weights. They recommended using Signature Series 0w30.
I haven't seen any UOA's here of signature series 0w30 where it didn't stand up to the task as well as 5w30 and 10w30. Just FWIW.
In my opinion, yes you can successfully use some 0W-x oils in some high performance applications. I also think that in some applications, they are not ideal, such as some 0W-40 oils (ex. M1) in shared sump motorcycles that call for xW-40. That is an extreme example to make a point. I suspect you are thinking of high performance automobile engines. With oils that lose viscosity from shearing and thermal cracking of polymer VIIs, the rate at which they do it starts off high and exponentially decreases since the fracturing is a self-limiting process. The fractured VIIs become much less likely to fracture further. Unless you change your oil within one or two thousand miles, you aren't going to change it soon enough to avoid the viscosity loss, so that's not a practical option. The HTHS viscosity is what matters, not kinematic viscosity. The percent decrease in HTHS viscosity is around 1/2 of the percent decrease in kinematic viscosity at 100C. It's not uncommon to see something like a 13 cst at 100 C oil with 3.7 cP HTHS viscosity drop to 11.5 cSt, which is an 11.5% decrease in kinematic viscosity. So, expect the 3.7 cP HTHS viscosity to decrease by 5.8%, ending up at 3.49 cP.
A 0W-16 oil is much less of a stretch than 0W-40 or 0W-50.
0W-x oil shine the most in arctic and subarctic temperatures. They can also be used well at the equator. The downsides are increased chance, but no guarantee, of higher cost to the producer, lower shear stability, and higher volatility. There are exceptions to those tendencies because all else is not equal.
A 0W-16 oil is much less of a stretch than 0W-40 or 0W-50.
0W-x oil shine the most in arctic and subarctic temperatures. They can also be used well at the equator. The downsides are increased chance, but no guarantee, of higher cost to the producer, lower shear stability, and higher volatility. There are exceptions to those tendencies because all else is not equal.
Originally Posted by JAG
In my opinion, yes you can successfully use some 0W-x oils in some high performance applications. I also think that in some applications, they are not ideal, such as some 0W-40 oils (ex. M1) in shared sump motorcycles that call for xW-40. That is an extreme example to make a point. I suspect you are thinking of high performance automobile engines. With oils that lose viscosity from shearing and thermal cracking of polymer VIIs, the rate at which they do it starts off high and exponentially decreases since the fracturing is a self-limiting process. The fractured VIIs become much less likely to fracture further. Unless you change your oil within one or two thousand miles, you aren't going to change it soon enough to avoid the viscosity loss, so that's not a practical option. The HTHS viscosity is what matters, not kinematic viscosity. The percent decrease in HTHS viscosity is around 1/2 of the percent decrease in kinematic viscosity at 100C. It's not uncommon to see something like a 13 cst at 100 C oil with 3.7 cP HTHS viscosity drop to 11.5 cSt, which is an 11.5% decrease in kinematic viscosity. So, expect the 3.7 cP HTHS viscosity to decrease by 5.8%, ending up at 3.49 cP.
A 0W-16 oil is much less of a stretch than 0W-40 or 0W-50.
0W-x oil shine the most in arctic and subarctic temperatures. They can also be used well at the equator. The downsides are increased chance, but no guarantee, of higher cost to the producer, lower shear stability, and higher volatility. There are exceptions to those tendencies because all else is not equal.
Well - the car I'm not necessarily thinking of buying but I'm seeing a lot is the Civic Type R. 306 HP out of a blown 2.0L and 0W-20 on the oil cap.
In my opinion, yes you can successfully use some 0W-x oils in some high performance applications. I also think that in some applications, they are not ideal, such as some 0W-40 oils (ex. M1) in shared sump motorcycles that call for xW-40. That is an extreme example to make a point. I suspect you are thinking of high performance automobile engines. With oils that lose viscosity from shearing and thermal cracking of polymer VIIs, the rate at which they do it starts off high and exponentially decreases since the fracturing is a self-limiting process. The fractured VIIs become much less likely to fracture further. Unless you change your oil within one or two thousand miles, you aren't going to change it soon enough to avoid the viscosity loss, so that's not a practical option. The HTHS viscosity is what matters, not kinematic viscosity. The percent decrease in HTHS viscosity is around 1/2 of the percent decrease in kinematic viscosity at 100C. It's not uncommon to see something like a 13 cst at 100 C oil with 3.7 cP HTHS viscosity drop to 11.5 cSt, which is an 11.5% decrease in kinematic viscosity. So, expect the 3.7 cP HTHS viscosity to decrease by 5.8%, ending up at 3.49 cP.
A 0W-16 oil is much less of a stretch than 0W-40 or 0W-50.
0W-x oil shine the most in arctic and subarctic temperatures. They can also be used well at the equator. The downsides are increased chance, but no guarantee, of higher cost to the producer, lower shear stability, and higher volatility. There are exceptions to those tendencies because all else is not equal.
Well - the car I'm not necessarily thinking of buying but I'm seeing a lot is the Civic Type R. 306 HP out of a blown 2.0L and 0W-20 on the oil cap.
@ Jag: You are right, i was thinking about car engines. Generel and of course with my own Honda S2000 in mind with its high RPM / piston speed.
And i was annoyed about the opinion "0w-40 is crap for High performace engines!" in some other forums.
Thanks for your Input. Yes, i was thinking myself that the shearing down of the VI Improvers is the greatest problem.
I am curious how Ravenols new shear free USVO oils will perform in real life in future.
And i was annoyed about the opinion "0w-40 is crap for High performace engines!" in some other forums.
Thanks for your Input. Yes, i was thinking myself that the shearing down of the VI Improvers is the greatest problem.
I am curious how Ravenols new shear free USVO oils will perform in real life in future.
Last edited:
@ Paulfix: Yes, but i want to have a oil with a HTHS above 3,5 in my engines, even if it is only for peace of mind.
But yes, modern engines perform well with thin oils, but they are desigend from the factory for use of this thin oils.
But yes, modern engines perform well with thin oils, but they are desigend from the factory for use of this thin oils.
- Status
