Nissan's small filters

[sHERM]

I have a 2008 Nissan Altima. I am planning on using Mobil 1 Extended Performance on a 12k OCI. The only thing that concerns me is the filter is very small. I bought a Mobil 1 Extended Performance filter thinking that would be adequate for the OCI, But man my filter on my Suzuki is larger than this filter.

Should I be concerned ? Do you think I could find an oversize filter ?

 

[SLCraig]

Is your car a 3.5?
I have owned 2 3.5's and I always used the longer filter (Wix PN#1356) and they work perfectly on the VQ35.

 

[steveh]

Do you have the M1-108 or the longer M1-110?

 

[sHERM]

it's a 2.5L and it uses the 108

 

[razel]

If you got an oil filter from Nissan don't be concerned about it's size. I took apart several different filters for the Nissan V6 VQ 3.0 and shockingly the smallest size Nissan filter had very good filter surface area underneath.

You can try to search for my early posts here on this forum back in 2004 I think to all the ones I took apart and compared. However this was nearly 8 years ago. Oil filters for sure have changed, but I'm also sure that the Nissan OEMs will still have good filter surface area.

EDIT: Found my post here.

 

[dparm]

Technically a larger filter will change the oil pressure a bit. I doubt Nissan would run a filter that's too small.

 

[steveh]

The M1-110 is a little longer and was used on the 2005 2.5L.

 

[Sayjac]

Quote:
The M1-110 is a little longer and was used on the 2005 2.5L.

+1 Based on the Purolator cross reference the M1-110 is the equivalent of the Purolator 14610(7317 Fram), a slightly longer version (.6") of the spec'd thimble size 14612. I've not seen posted a Nissan/Infiniti application where the longer application size filter won't fit and it has more media area.

The longer PL14610 is what my son runs in his G37S rather than the smaller spec'd 14612 size.

No need to be 'concerned' about using the smaller filter, but the longer 14610/7317/M1-110 will work fine too.

Topic has been covered before, below is a recent thread also talking about the same topic. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2502194

 

[Dwight_Frye]

I ran nothing but the Mobil 1 Size 110 on my 2004 Infiniti G35 for the 5 years that I owned it, and have done the same with my '09 Nissan 370Z. The pan takes about another 1/4 qt. of oil when using the longer filters and I always keep the oil level at the top mark on the dipstick. No problems have been encountered by using the oversized filters.

 

[MetalSlug]

Is your nissan Japanese edition ? then it will and definally come with " small " filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Technically a larger filter will change the oil pressure a bit.


The only time you can really see an oil filter's effect on the oil pressure is when the oil pump is running at max pressure as controlled by the pressure relief valve, and if the pressure sensor is located before the filter.

Most cars have the oil pressure sensor located after the oil filter. Therefore, if the oil pump is not in pressure relief mode, the oil pressure should read the same regardless of what oil filter is being used. I've used 4 or 5 different brand filters on my Z06 and see the same exact oil pressure between all of them.

 

[boosted]

Originally Posted By: dparm
Technically a larger filter will change the oil pressure a bit. I doubt Nissan would run a filter that's too small.

This Guy is right on, z06 your oil pressure gauge can't measure in that small of amounts so not accurate at all, if people are so worried about this then your not changing oil soon enough, 12k is crazy! I would hate to be the Guy who buys your car after you are done with it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: boosted
Originally Posted By: dparm
Technically a larger filter will change the oil pressure a bit. I doubt Nissan would run a filter that's too small.

This Guy is right on, z06 your oil pressure gauge can't measure in that small of amounts so not accurate at all, if people are so worried about this then your not changing oil soon enough, 12k is crazy! I would hate to be the Guy who buys your car after you are done with it.


My digital oil pressure gauge reads in 1 psi increments, so if a filter changes the oil pressure up or down by less than 1 psi, and can't be seen on the gauge, then basically there is really no change for practical purposes.

The only time a more or less restrictive filter would change the oil pressure reading under the same exact conditions (oil temp/viscosity & engine RPM) is if the the oil pump is old and worn out, and puts out more or less volume due to how much restriction it is trying to pump against. The pump would have to be in pretty bad shape to react to such a small change in overall restriction of the oiling system caused by a different oil filter on the engine.

Keep in mind that most filters are only about 1/15th as restrictive as the engine's oiling system itself. In other words, a filter is 15 times less restrictive than the engine is.

 

[dnewton3]

Originally Posted By: sHERM
I have a 2008 Nissan Altima. I am planning on using Mobil 1 Extended Performance on a 12k OCI. The only thing that concerns me is the filter is very small. I bought a Mobil 1 Extended Performance filter thinking that would be adequate for the OCI, But man my filter on my Suzuki is larger than this filter.

Should I be concerned ? Do you think I could find an oversize filter ?

Ummmmm - rather than ask for some unsubstantiated opinions ....
Why not experiement and test and report back?
Do some trials, get some used oil analysis and PCs.
Be a source of information, rather than a point of contention!



As for the sidebar pressure debate, I'm with zee here. If one is so concerned with one or two PSI, then you're worried about the wrong things.

Do not confuse pump pressure relief with filter bypass; two different concepts.
The pump relief will activate any time the pump is supplying more pressure than the system can handle. It will bleed off pressure so that the system is not overwhelmed. Most systems operate in a manner so that the pressure is a slave to the rpm; more engine speed equals more pump pressure. And, since that pressure has to be enough at idle when warm, it's typically more than enough at any other time, so some is bled off depending upon engine temp, oil temp, and engine rpm.
OTOH - The filter bypass is there to relieve should the media become so loaded to a point where it blinds off enough to become a restriction in the full-flow system. This is rare, and would be more common if filter changes were neglected.
It is the oil circuit itself (journal clearances, pushrod/rockers, oil squirters, etc) that represent the large delta P from pump pressure down to atmospheric. The filter represents a minimal delta P overall. About the only time the filter bypass would open, is if the lube system somehow empties itself, and upon start-up, the oil slams into the media. This would happen in a system where the ADBV fails to hold oil downstream of the filter. But, that is only temporary and once the system is full again, that delta P is minimal (perhaps 1-3psi?).

Essentially, the pump will relieve often, depending upon normal operational concerns. The filter BP will, hopefully, never open, or only rarely and only for a second or so.

Once the lube system is up to operating pressure (normal running), the filter represents very little delta P, and will not be the cause of any pressure drop worth worrying about.

I cannot fathom how a slightly larger or smaller filter (both with similar media and design) is going to amount to a hoot's worth of pressure difference worthy of worry at all.

Don't get caught up in the minutia.

 

[DaHen]

Been using Mobil's M1-110 or, when I feel wealthy, RP's 10-2867 on my '06 Altima.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
.....Keep in mind that most filters are only about 1/15th as restrictive as the engine's oiling system itself. In other words, a filter is 15 times less restrictive than the engine is.

And why I don't worry about oil filter 'flow' concerns.

To the topic, if the OP's car was mine, I'd have no reservations about using the 14610/7317/M1-110 in Nissan/Infiniti applications.

 

[sHERM]

Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Originally Posted By: sHERM
I have a 2008 Nissan Altima. I am planning on using Mobil 1 Extended Performance on a 12k OCI. The only thing that concerns me is the filter is very small. I bought a Mobil 1 Extended Performance filter thinking that would be adequate for the OCI, But man my filter on my Suzuki is larger than this filter.

Should I be concerned ? Do you think I could find an oversize filter ?

Ummmmm - rather than ask for some unsubstantiated opinions ....
Why not experiement and test and report back?
Do some trials, get some used oil analysis and PCs.
Be a source of information, rather than a point of contention!



As for the sidebar pressure debate, I'm with zee here. If one is so concerned with one or two PSI, then you're worried about the wrong things.

Do not confuse pump pressure relief with filter bypass; two different concepts.
The pump relief will activate any time the pump is supplying more pressure than the system can handle. It will bleed off pressure so that the system is not overwhelmed. Most systems operate in a manner so that the pressure is a slave to the rpm; more engine speed equals more pump pressure. And, since that pressure has to be enough at idle when warm, it's typically more than enough at any other time, so some is bled off depending upon engine temp, oil temp, and engine rpm.
OTOH - The filter bypass is there to relieve should the media become so loaded to a point where it blinds off enough to become a restriction in the full-flow system. This is rare, and would be more common if filter changes were neglected.
It is the oil circuit itself (journal clearances, pushrod/rockers, oil squirters, etc) that represent the large delta P from pump pressure down to atmospheric. The filter represents a minimal delta P overall. About the only time the filter bypass would open, is if the lube system somehow empties itself, and upon start-up, the oil slams into the media. This would happen in a system where the ADBV fails to hold oil downstream of the filter. But, that is only temporary and once the system is full again, that delta P is minimal (perhaps 1-3psi?).

Essentially, the pump will relieve often, depending upon normal operational concerns. The filter BP will, hopefully, never open, or only rarely and only for a second or so.

Once the lube system is up to operating pressure (normal running), the filter represents very little delta P, and will not be the cause of any pressure drop worth worrying about.

I cannot fathom how a slightly larger or smaller filter (both with similar media and design) is going to amount to a hoot's worth of pressure difference worthy of worry at all.

Don't get caught up in the minutia.


Hey newton, isn't this a forum where people are supposed to ask questions and get opinions, some people aren't know it all like you. You remind me of Cliff Claven.

 

[Garak]

sHERM, I think the point he was trying to make is that there have been a lot of small filters for the last number of years, without any corresponding reduction in engine life. Years back, everyone got panicky when they saw the little Dixie cup filters. I still would rather see every vehicle use an FL1A, but that doesn't mean that little filters don't work.

Engines and oils have improved, making life easier on the filter, even given the longer OCIs we see. On a properly running modern engine (not a known sludger or some such thing), could you imagine how long it would take to fill a big FL1A to the point of plugging it, much less the Mobil 1 or K&N or Distance Plus version of such a filter?

Small filters are easier to transport, so it's easier logistically. I wish smaller filters cost less than the larger ones, but that's another topic altogether.

 

[Sayjac]

And I think the point the OP is trying to make, is that one shouldn't have to feel intimidated into not asking a question and/or seek opinions, in this specific case about the use of a larger filter application. And that rather than a valued member or contributor here, if one asks for opinions they are a 'point of contention.'

While as stated by many here, the smaller filter will work fine, a larger filter application can have advantages. Here the OP has found acceptable larger size alternatives with the help of many posters. Very unfortunate imo, to have those answers/responses condescendingly labeled "unsubstantiated opinions".

If every post on Bitog requires scientific data to answer, then few if any would be allowed to post any response on Bitog.

 

[Bruce T]

I don't know whether an oversized filter will always improve filtration, but the engine oil pressure is not the only issue. There is also the oil pressure inside the filter, which affects filtration. A smaller canister equals higher oil pressure and lower filtration efficiency.

Do I think measuring it would justify an experiment? No, the pressure differences do exist, but it would be difficult to isolate the effects by UOA, particle count (often inaccurate), filter autopsy, etc. If someone has the time and energy to perform the testing, then knock yourself out.