"Newcomer" shot 3x in WalMart parking lot after...

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Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

You are the one bringing up toilet paper as a lame diversion to support your apparent unwillingness to confront people willing to kill you and steal your money . This guy was going after the victims MONEY and he discharged a firearm on him.

And he was justified, in some people's opinions, in returning fire. However, what YOU said earlier was you'd hand him your wallet, and shoot him in the back as he left. That's not self-defense, that is murder.
 
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:

I can't believe some of you guys. Are you guys saying private citizens shouldn't have the right to defend themselves and their property with lethal force if lethal force is being used againts them? God help the USA if you are...


No, I'm saying i'm not getting shot over rolls of toilet paper and end up on TNS's dumb A$$ person's list to be mocked in perpetuity on BITOG.


So someone who lawfully uses deadly force against another person who commits attempted murder is a quote "[censored]".
smirk2.gif


Why not stop defending criminals and put them on the "[censored]" list, especially when they get OWNED.
 
Originally Posted By: HollowEyes
Originally Posted By: Drew99GT

You are the one bringing up toilet paper as a lame diversion to support your apparent unwillingness to confront people willing to kill you and steal your money . This guy was going after the victims MONEY and he discharged a firearm on him.

And he was justified, in some people's opinions, in returning fire. However, what YOU said earlier was you'd hand him your wallet, and shoot him in the back as he left. That's not self-defense, that is murder.


Maybe in your universe, but not in a CO court of law. Perhaps you should read up on cases where deadly force is lawfully used to stop someone from killing you.

If someone has already discharged a firearm against you, and you shoot them back, it's not murder. It's self defense.
 
You're missing my point. That's not the example you stated. You said if they took your wallet, you would shoot them in the back. No where in your example did you state they had fired a weapon at you.
 
Quote:
No, I'm saying i'm not getting shot over rolls of toilet paper and end up on TNS's dumb A$$ person's list to be mocked in perpetuity on BITOG.


So you lay down like a sheep when the wolf shows up, bleating and hoping he'll take your friend, your neighbor, anyone but you. They thrive on folks like you.

Only to find that after he gets your wallet, he's pi$$ed because, "dey ain't enough MF money in here," whereby he promptly shoots your terrified a$$!

When the scum began firing at the would-be victim, it was NOT about $40 worth of toilet paper or anything else. It was about his LIFE!

And unlike the communist state of Illinois (where only the good guys have FOID cards, Mr. Chicago), fortunately this would-be murder victim was able to exercise his right to protect his life.
 
Don't get me wrong, I don't particularly agree with Chicago's gun laws, nor am I a resident of IL. Nor am I a communist, thank you very much.

My concern is there is no clear cut black and white line of "reasonable" as far as being concerned for your safety and well being.

I hold human life as having intrinsic value and would have a very difficult time justifying taking another life.
 
I would have no problem shooting a [censored] it is like shooting an animal attacking my cows or having to put down an injured animal when I owned the land I kept them in .In fact open season on gang members would be cool. When cops and bad guys only are allowed to have guns someting is wrong.
 
Originally Posted By: HollowEyes

I hold human life as having intrinsic value and would have a very difficult time justifying taking another life.



Even if it came down to you or him?...you'd be willing to take a bullet in the melon?


I know that is pushing the limits but I think if push came to shove your self preservation instincts would kick in.....


A couple of thoughts...this turd decided to go out and make himself some money by robbing some poor slob just trying to get through the day and get home to see his family....my thought is if you decide to commit a crime and especially if you have a firearm you have accepted the very distinct possibility that you may end up dead before the night is over...whether you get killed justifiably or not is not the issue..that fact is that you have decided to commit a crime and with that comes the realization that you MAY end up with 230 grains of a hollowpoint right between the eyes

Seems like this guy was totally justified in shooting this pos....plenty of times I'm just out and about with just me and my debit...somehow I don't think Mr Misunderstood was out looking for a six pack of toilet paper to steal..more like $$ and since the victim didn't have any $$ Mr Outstanding decided to waste him...THANK heavens this guy was armed and had the ability to defend himself and not curl up in a ball pleading for his life(which would have done no good more than likely)


A firearm is like a fire Extinguisher...hope you never have to use it but thankful that you do have it in case of an emergency


If this was in Massachusetts they probably would have arrested the shopper for abusing the poor misunderstood kid and he would have to prove on WHY he felt his life was in danger(even with the shotup car)

Live Free or Die



Goose
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Quote:
my thought is if you decide to commit a crime and especially if you have a firearm you have accepted the very distinct possibility that you may end up dead before the night is over...whether you get killed justifiably or not is not the issue..that fact is that you have decided to commit a crime and with that comes the realization that you MAY end up with 230 grains of a hollowpoint right between the eyes


I generally subscribe to this line of thought. If I use this in our life threatening scenario ...then it goes 24/7/365 too. That is, if I accidentally harm your property ...I have to willingly bend over to your will since I trespassed against you. I can only hope that you're a civil and fair person and not a punitive greedy pig.

..but basically ..yes, once you trespass upon another, especially with malice and premeditation, you automatically give up the right to demand justice for yourself. You surrendered it when you denied it to them.

Again, as long as it's a life philosophy that cuts both ways ..it's a dandy attitude.

Now if you duck and hide from your own shortcomings or tramplings upon others ..however slight, you kinda make this "belief" a lie ..if you see what I mean.

You have to be "just" for yourself and not just for the other guy.
 
I agree Gary.


Basically I am just saying if you decide to go out with the intent to rob someone and heck..even if you just are using your fists to threaten someone...you have made a choice and put yourself in a situation where you MAY end with a load of buckshot in your butt...same goes for B&E, looting, purse snatching, car jacking...you name it

Am I saying you deserve to pay the ultimate price for every crime?? Nope...but the possibility of you taking a dirt nap increase greatly when you make a choice



Goose
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I think the trick to this type of standoff is to be sure to grab the hand of the perp and somehow secure him away from being able to point his gun effectively AS you draw and fire. You could really ventilate the guy if he was stood-up hanging onto his gun.

I doubt I would do the back-shoot, but I do feel that someone running away, armed, after just robbing you at gunpoint DOES still pose an immediate threat. An unstable person like that could just kill you on a whim or shoot randomly over their shoulder. It wouldn't be the first time.
 
The teen robber will be back on the streets doing this same [censored] in a couple of years. Shame!

I guess if I'd been the victim here, since I rarely have my gun ON ME, I'd probably have started rambling on about extended OCI's in my VW turbo running dino oil. Then after the first shot, I'd have screamed BITOG!!!!! The shooter would have either finished me off or realized I'm more nutty than him,....
 
Well, he's being tried as an adult. He's got 5 just for the armed robbery. I'd say he's in for a decent amount of time.
 
Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
The shooter would have either finished me off or realized I'm more nutty than him,....
Are those mutually exclusive?
grin2.gif
I might have shot you just for mixing your metaphors and metonymies so distastefully.
56.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
...a very savvy state trooper demonstrated to me how difficult a situation you're in if someone has the drop on you ..even if someone's just coming up to club you.....

I have a tiny Kel-Tec P-11 9mm for concealed carry, and I actually allowed a punk to take my watch and wallet while I was armed. It had nothing to do with courage, mercy, fear or morals--there was simply no opportunity to bring the weapon to bear during the encounter. He easily would have had the chance to put 2-3 rounds in me before I fired my first shot. I could have plinked away as he retreated; by that point my life wasn't in danger, so I just sucked it up. No one's life is worth less than the $40 in my wallet.
 
Ahh, a "shooting truck"...only 5 more payments and it's OURS! That's what American vehicles are for.
 
Two bullets got him in the leg and hip, shattered both. Out of surgery, recovering in a Kansas City hospital. He's definitely keeping the truck :)

Some bullet holes in the door card, dash, seats, etc.
 
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