New vehicle

[VTECOverRated]

Still dreaming here....and it has to do with being a car enthusiast imho.

If GM comes out with a refreshed Tahoe in 2025 that still has a V8 that supposedly gets redesigned to be more efficient, why not just jump off that cliff and get it (as a GM owner I have experienced the below average reliability and poor dealer network and attitude)...or it's Escalade sibling...we only live once. I've written off the CX90--the cargo space simply doesn't cut it for something so expensive....

The CX90 inline 6 will be hot garbage especially after the warranty ends. Its more complicated than any german invention I have ever seen, and the manual of repair on it...requires disassembly of the entire front clip and removal of the engine. How fun! This is straight from mazda's mouth too lol.

The only way to make a v8 efficient will be to downsize and use cylinder deactivation, or hybridization, and use a good flow head and well designed intake plenum to manage air flow on the low end. I think something like valvetronic would do wonders for V8's to allow for precise air control while cruising. That and adding more gears.

Lets do a quick comparison. The Lexus RCF 5.0 V8 with the 8 speed gets 16/24 MPG (city/hwy), where as the same engine in a heavier weighted car but with a 10 speed (the LC500), gets 19/25. Gains are gains.

I think a lot of it has to come from using new techniques of engine management, as well as transmissions and tuning. The v8 will always have a special place in my heart, but it seems that everyone went towards the "cut cylinders" mentality instead of innovation. The corvette is pushing the limits, the stingray gets 15 city and 27 highway. And the E-ray Exists, and would be an awesome concept, to mesh a v8 into a hybrid system for better fuel economy.

But, there is always a but...WEIGHT...

 

[IndyIan]

Yeah, I'm kinda questioning my Corolla purchase--yes I knew it would be boring going in. But somehow it's more boring than a Camry? I think it's because I slowed down for the mpg's, and now it's like... ok, now what? oh wait, that's mile marker going by, like I haven't seen that one every day, for the last twenty years... oh look, another one, looks like the last one...

Audio books(your library loans these too), podcasts, doing some mild hypermiling(a CVT can be amazingly efficient in some situations), clip apexes or only put half a tire width over a pothole to work on your car awareness, makes the time go by for me.
I do like to take in the scenery, wildlife, analyze the hay crops, see what people are building, selling, etc, but I find it takes my eyes of the road a bit at times. We had one guy at work who drove 1.25 hrs each way and he would leave time to stop and take pictures of the scenery or wildlife. Over 15 years he has quite a few amazing shots.

 

[supton]

Audio books(your library loans these too), podcasts,

I tried audiobooks one time, and found I had a tendency to zone into the book for some reason. If I haven't read the book, I found myself listening to the book more, and losing focus on driving--don't ask me why, but I can have a conversation in a car without issue, but a book distracts me. Whereas it wasn't bad with a book that I already knew, if I lost 15 seconds it was ok, I already knew the story. Podcasts were the same way. [I suspect I also have issues following along with voices I'm unfamiliar with, mild hearing loss and half the time my ears have drainage problems.] I should give it a try again (where's that thread "where's my CD player" again? ), maybe things have changed.

Got a freebie trial of Sirius, been flipping through that, but it'll go away eventually as I'm not paying. I'd estimate about a minute of dropout on my 55minute commute. Plus it's not that many channels on there.

 

[OVERKILL]

The trends are pretty obvious. Back when Ford, Chevrolet, the whole GM bucket, Chrysler, etc, were making gas guzzlers, they had a good track record. Then when the gas crisis hit, the Japanese over took them and left them in the dust by some 10-20 years! Then when the 90's came around and they were barely catching up, the Japanese did another punch to the gut, HYBRIDS.

American makes are jumping on the EV bandwagon because they have been left in the dust in pretty much everything except V8's which no one wants nor can afford. Problem is, its kind of obvious where the EV train is going and how its going to derail, since the infrastructure isn't there, the power grid isn't there, and the electrical prices aren't there, and the range isn't there...Heck...making an EV takes more slave labor and emissions to produce than a gas car generates!

Once solid state hits the market (Honda/Toyota patents for 25 years) either these makes like Ford/GM will recieve more bail outs like they always do, or maybe the Gov will finally cut them lose and take the L.

And yet:

Also, Toyota has been promising solid state batteries for years and every year, fails to deliver. I swear, solid state is like thorium, the mythos is so much greater than the reality. Both are so heavily over-sold by their proponents, who are often people who know very little about what they are advocating for.

 

[John105]

The CX90 inline 6 will be hot garbage especially after the warranty ends. Its more complicated than any german invention I have ever seen, and the manual of repair on it...requires disassembly of the entire front clip and removal of the engine. How fun! This is straight from mazda's mouth too lol.

The only way to make a v8 efficient will be to downsize and use cylinder deactivation, or hybridization, and use a good flow head and well designed intake plenum to manage air flow on the low end. I think something like valvetronic would do wonders for V8's to allow for precise air control while cruising. That and adding more gears.

Lets do a quick comparison. The Lexus RCF 5.0 V8 with the 8 speed gets 16/24 MPG (city/hwy), where as the same engine in a heavier weighted car but with a 10 speed (the LC500), gets 19/25. Gains are gains.

I think a lot of it has to come from using new techniques of engine management, as well as transmissions and tuning. The v8 will always have a special place in my heart, but it seems that everyone went towards the "cut cylinders" mentality instead of innovation. The corvette is pushing the limits, the stingray gets 15 city and 27 highway. And the E-ray Exists, and would be an awesome concept, to mesh a v8 into a hybrid system for better fuel economy.

But, there is always a but...WEIGHT...

What's interesting, I have a 2006 LS430. It is EPA 16/23. I get a calculated (and observed which is accurate to 0.3) 27-30 mpg on the highway. I've tested it. Reset my mpg computer while cruising at 65 mph, and let it go uninterrupted for 60 miles.

I can also get 14 mpg when the car never sees the highway. The avg mph is an indication, it can be 18 mph, 20 mph.

A V8 that is 20 years newer can do better, but like you point out, how....for one even non turbo the amount of HP and torque is vastly increased over 20 years ago...(I'm thinking when torque approaches mid 400's that's pretty good)

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Ages ago drove a rental Mercury GM to Jersey and back. 31 MPG running about 70-75 mph.

Tall highway gear and engine not turning much, me backpeddling constantly as usual.

Comfortable car built long enough years to be refined. I'm sure LEO contracts helped this.

Did I say it was a serene HW cruiser?

Not much back seat room with the front bench all the way back, I recall.

 

[72C10]

I'm looking for a P71 Police Interceptor...to turn into a "race car" at my local short track. Lol.

 

[IndyIan]

And yet:
View attachment 174855

Also, Toyota has been promising solid state batteries for years and every year, fails to deliver. I swear, solid state is like thorium, the mythos is so much greater than the reality. Both are so heavily over-sold by their proponents, who are often people who know very little about what they are advocating for.

I guess half the "light trucks" are pickups/big rwd based SUV's for people who don't care too much about mileage/vehicle cost. 1/4 of "light trucks" are midsize SUV's for those who care a little about mileage and vehicle cost, and another 1/4 are 3 or 4 cyl small or tiny fwd based SUV's who probably should mostly be driving a 2wd corolla/camry wagon's if not for the lack of elevated seating position wanted because of all the SUV's...

 

[OVERKILL]

I guess half the "light trucks" are pickups/big rwd based SUV's for people who don't care too much about mileage/vehicle cost. 1/4 of "light trucks" are midsize SUV's for those who care a little about mileage and vehicle cost, and another 1/4 are 3 or 4 cyl small or tiny fwd based SUV's who probably should mostly be driving a 2wd corolla/camry wagon's if not for the lack of elevated seating position wanted because of all the SUV's...

Of the 14,954,805 vehicles sold in the US in 2021:
1. Ford F-series: 726,003, 9.89%
2. RAM pickups: 569,389, 7.75%
3. Chev Silverado: 529,765, 7.21%
4. Toyota RAV4: 407,739, 5.55%
5. Honda CR-V: 361,271, 4.92%
6. Toyota Camry: 313,795, 4.27%
7. Nissan Rogue: 285,601, 3.89%
8. Toyota Highlander: 264,128, 3.6%
9. Honda Civic: 263,787, 2.29%
10. Jeep Grand Cherokee: 254,445, 2.27%
11. Toyota Tacoma: 252,490, 2.30%
12. GMC Sierra: 248,923, 2.32%

So, just looking at the top 12, 31.68% of vehicles sold are legitimate pick-up trucks. Seems like CUV's and mid-sized SUV's are the next segment, again, just looking at the top 12, constituting 21.42% of the total. The Japanese staple cars (Civic and Camry) are 7.87%,

 

[JGmazda]

Still dreaming here....and it has to do with being a car enthusiast imho.

If GM comes out with a refreshed Tahoe in 2025 that still has a V8 that supposedly gets redesigned to be more efficient, why not just jump off that cliff and get it (as a GM owner I have experienced the below average reliability and poor dealer network and attitude)...or it's Escalade sibling...we only live once. I've written off the CX90--the cargo space simply doesn't cut it for something so expensive....

I still want a V8 non turbo in an SUV. The LS430 was my first 8 cyl ever, and I'll hold on to it forever....

Amen to that. I want longevity and am willing to accept a gas mileage hit for that. The more I read about the CX-90, the more I'm questioning long-term reliability. As others have mentioned... the CX's engine has some questionable engineering. A well built V-8 or even a V-6 minus all the "bad engineering" is what I would want.
Heck... I'm still going strong on my 2001 LeSabre with the 3800. I get 30mpg on the highway and 27-28 mixed. One of GM's best.

The Crown Vic and 4.6L is also a great choice. I don't care for anything Turbo charged as it add complexity. Call me "Old Skool", but I keep my vehicles for a long time.

 

[VTECOverRated]

And yet:
View attachment 174855

Also, Toyota has been promising solid state batteries for years and every year, fails to deliver. I swear, solid state is like thorium, the mythos is so much greater than the reality. Both are so heavily over-sold by their proponents, who are often people who know very little about what they are advocating for.

Aren't light trucks all 4 cylinder turbos now?
So how is this chart relevant.

 

[OVERKILL]

Aren't light trucks all 4 cylinder turbos now?
So how is this chart relevant.

1, 2 and 3 are all half-tons or larger and comprise 25% of all vehicles sold. V8's are the majority of engine options in this segment. I'd say that's pretty relevant when you've asserted that nobody can afford V8's.

And, if the top 3 vehicles are all half-ton or larger trucks, how does that jive with your assertion that American makes have been left in the dust? We also have the Grand Cherokee in the top-10 (which, until recently, had THREE optional V8's, depending on trim), which is a mid-sized SUV. If we expanded our list to the top 15, we'd also have the Corolla, Explorer and Wrangler in the list.

 

[VTECOverRated]

1, 2 and 3 are all half-tons or larger and comprise 25% of all vehicles sold. V8's are the majority of engine options in this segment. I'd say that's pretty relevant when you've asserted that nobody can afford V8's.

And, if the top 3 vehicles are all half-ton or larger trucks, how does that jive with your assertion that American makes have been left in the dust? We also have the Grand Cherokee in the top-10 (which, until recently, had THREE optional V8's, depending on trim), which is a mid-sized SUV. If we expanded our list to the top 15, we'd also have the Corolla, Explorer and Wrangler in the list.

Just basic googling claims you are wrong. The new standard engine in the f150 is a 2.7 turbo 6...and is the most popular engine sold since it was introduced.......................
Look at used f150's sold in the US year 2021 onward...and see how many of them are v8's.

So no. v8's are not popular, not even close. If the best selling truck has over 75% of its sold variants as v6's...then its not even a debate anymore that no one is spending the extra for the v8. The fact that the Ram and Silverado are pushing for turbo 6/4 cylinders to compete says enough.

 

[OVERKILL]

Just basic googling claims you are wrong. The new standard engine in the f150 is a 2.7 turbo 6...and is the most popular engine sold since it was introduced.......................
Look at used f150's sold in the US year 2021 onward...and see how many of them are v8's.

I said V8's are the majority of engine options in this segment. Nowhere did I say that the F-150 was mostly sold with V8's, the turbo 6's have been popular options for that truck.

This is an amusing attempt at deflecting from your claim about the US companies being "left in the dust" (your words) because they "only make V8's that nobody wants or can afford" when the top three vehicles sold are US pick-up trucks, and all have available V8's.

How about focusing on reconciling those two facts with your claim? That'd be a great start!

So no. v8's are not popular, not even close.

Obviously they ARE popular, they are the base engine in the F-250 and F-350, they are the base engine in the RAM 2500 and RAM 3500, they are the base engine in the Silverado and Sierra 2500 and 3500 trucks. They are also the standard engine on most trims of RAM trucks (the second best selling behind the F-series) and many Silverado trims. You claiming to the contrary doesn't change these fundamental facts.

Ford just put money into developing a whole new pushrod V8 (the 7.3L) for their HD segment. Both the Duramax and Powerstroke diesel engines are V8's.

RAM currently offers three different V8 engines in their 1500/2500/3500 trucks:
- 5.7L HEMI
- 6.4L HEMI
- 6.2L HEMI SC

GM currently offers four different V8 engines in their 1500/2500/3500 trucks:
- 5.3L
- 6.2L
- 6.6L
- 6.6L Duramax

Ford currently offers four different V8 engines in their 150/250/350 trucks:
- 5.0L
- 6.2L
- 7.3L
- 6.7L Powerstroke

If the best selling truck has over 75% of its sold variants as v6's...then its not even a debate anymore that no one is spending the extra for the v8.

OK, so let me just try and follow your logic here.

So, because the F-150, which has three different V6 engine options, two of them turbo, and a single V8, which, when combined with the Super Duty, which ONLY has V8 engine options, makes up 9.89% of sales, we should just totally ignore the *checks notes* 15% of sales represented by RAM and Silverado, where many of the trims have a V8 as standard?

I mean, I give you a nod for really investing in trying to spin this "nobody wants or can afford a V8" angle you've been trying to sell us, but it's complete BS, and this is the wrong site to be trying to sell that on.

The fact that the Ram and Silverado are pushing for turbo 6/4 cylinders to compete says enough.

RAM doesn't have the Hurricane I6 in the 1500 yet, but I fully expect it will eventually get it. The HEMI was never updated to DI and it is starting to show its age. The writing was on the wall when GM updated their V8's to DI and FCA didn't. That doesn't change the fact that the HEMI is a VERY popular engine choice and the standard engine on most trims of the 2nd best selling series of vehicles in the USA, that fact alone would cause any normal rational person to abandon any entertainment of the idea that the V8 isn't popular, and that nobody can afford, or is buying them.

 

[MNgopher]

Just basic googling claims you are wrong. The new standard engine in the f150 is a 2.7 turbo 6...and is the most popular engine sold since it was introduced.......................
Look at used f150's sold in the US year 2021 onward...and see how many of them are v8's.

So no. v8's are not popular, not even close. If the best selling truck has over 75% of its sold variants as v6's...then its not even a debate anymore that no one is spending the extra for the v8. The fact that the Ram and Silverado are pushing for turbo 6/4 cylinders to compete says enough.

Entertaining watching someone who clearly has no idea what they are talking about trying to make a point.

Example: The 2.7 is not and has never been the standard engine in the F150. It is a paid upgrade from the current 3.3L non turbo V6.

Good luck with the rest of that idea...

 

[Tdbo]

Emotion. Check that at the door before playing on the car lots.

Also, never go to the grocery store hungry.

 

[VTECOverRated]

Entertaining watching someone who clearly has no idea what they are talking about trying to make a point.

Example: The 2.7 is not and has never been the standard engine in the F150. It is a paid upgrade from the current 3.3L non turbo V6.

Good luck with the rest of that idea...

So my point stands....78% of F150's for the past 4 years OR MORE come with a v6. Not a v8
You are very welcome. The only time the 3.3 is "standard" is the XL and XLT which are base of base models
All others are 2.7. Which is 59%. I do know what I am talking about because Math > Old school fantasy land.

 

[DuckRyder]

So my point stands....78% of F150's for the past 4 years OR MORE come with a v6. Not a v8
You are very welcome. The only time the 3.3 is "standard" is the XL and XLT which are base of base models
All others are 2.7. Which is 59%. I do know what I am talking about because Math > Old school fantasy land.

What are you talking about, the 5.0 is an available option on pretty much all F150s. it standard on King Ranch and Limited.

Is it your contention that trucks are all ordered with the base engine?

 

[MNgopher]

So my point stands....78% of F150's for the past 4 years OR MORE come with a v6. Not a v8
You are very welcome. The only time the 3.3 is "standard" is the XL and XLT which are base of base models
All others are 2.7. Which is 59%. I do know what I am talking about because Math > Old school fantasy land.

Oh, where do we start... 2.7 F150 owner here to start with... if that makes me an old school fantasy land F150 owner, so be it.

You stated:

Just basic googling claims you are wrong. The new standard engine in the f150 is a 2.7 turbo 6...and is the most popular engine sold since it was introduced.......................

Do you know what the trim level split is for F150s? The XLT 302a package accounts for over 50% of all F150's sold... So that "base of base models" you dismiss is over 50% of the F150's sold. Then you claim the 2.7 is the base engine for anything above that... Which also is not correct. The 2.7 can be had in Lariat trim, but not in the King Ranch, Tremor, or Platinum levels which come with a base engine of the 5.0 V8. Or the Limited or Raptor, which come with the 3.5L Ecoboost as the "base engine".

Next, if we go with wherever that snip you've provided is from (unsourced, naturally) and go with the percentage being 78% of F150's are not V8's, that would still mean that nearly 160,000 of them are in fact V8's, which using the same data sourced by Overkill would place the V8 only versions of the F150 as the 20th best selling vehicle in the US on its own, between the Equinox and Forester. (Also ahead of the Outback, Tucson, 4 Runner, Escape, and Honda Pilot) Pretty sure most would consider those to be mainstream decent selling cars...

And you still have not touched on the Ram or the GM Twins or the Tundra, and their usage of V8s at a much higher clip than Ford (though Toyota came to the dark side this year...).

 

[VTECOverRated]

Oh, where do we start... 2.7 F150 owner here to start with... if that makes me an old school fantasy land F150 owner, so be it.

You stated:


Do you know what the trim level split is for F150s? The XLT 302a package accounts for over 50% of all F150's sold... So that "base of base models" you dismiss is over 50% of the F150's sold. Then you claim the 2.7 is the base engine for anything above that... Which also is not correct. The 2.7 can be had in Lariat trim, but not in the King Ranch, Tremor, or Platinum levels which come with a base engine of the 5.0 V8. Or the Limited or Raptor, which come with the 3.5L Ecoboost as the "base engine".

Next, if we go with wherever that snip you've provided is from (unsourced, naturally) and go with the percentage being 78% of F150's are not V8's, that would still mean that nearly 160,000 of them are in fact V8's, which using the same data sourced by Overkill would place the V8 only versions of the F150 as the 20th best selling vehicle in the US on its own, between the Equinox and Forester. (Also ahead of the Outback, Tucson, 4 Runner, Escape, and Honda Pilot) Pretty sure most would consider those to be mainstream decent selling cars...

And you still have not touched on the Ram or the GM Twins or the Tundra, and their usage of V8s at a much higher clip than Ford (though Toyota came to the dark side this year...).

I genuinely don't understand how you can't just go online and look at how many are for sale.
2580 of all trims excluding XL/XLT and only 1938 XL + XLT trims within 250 miles of my area. 2020+
Stop making stuff up.