New scientific study about brain and immune system

[Mystic]

Trust me, I am not stressing out. I will have a very good laugh if this new discovery ultimately results in important new medical advances.

The only thing I did was report the new discovery. I made no personal attacks on anybody.

I predict that before long this discovery will be reported by most if not all major news agencies. So when it gets reported on the news on TV, somebody can come up with something cute like 'click baiting.' It is already being reported all over the internet. Google it.

 

[d00df00d]

Dude.

I implied that the headline was clickbait.

Not the content of the article. Not your reporting of it. Just the headline.

That's it. Seriously.

 

[Mystic]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Dude.

I implied that the headline was clickbait.

Not the content of the article. Not your reporting of it. Just the headline.

That's it. Seriously.


Dude:

I realize that you think that 'clickbait' is really clever and all of that. Of course the various websites are trying to get people to go to their sites. But this medical discovery could prove to be extremely important and many are saying that textbooks will have to be rewritten. So the information is very important and not merely some stunt to get visitors to various websites. So 'clickbait' seems to be improper terminology for what they are doing. The various websites are trying to get the information of this medical discovery out to the general public. What else are they supposed to do? Not report it?

Now it is true that they are still going to have to confirm that the human brain contains this link and not just mouse brains. But why would the human brain be that different from the brains of the mice? It is extremely difficult to find this link between the brain and the immune system. That is why it went undiscovered so long.

I don't think it has been confirmed that the human brain has the link like mouse brains, but again why should the human brain be so different?

 

[Benito]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
But why would the human brain be that different from the brains of the mice?


Because we are more evolved?

 

[bbhero]

Guys... Maybe this is a big discovery .. Maybe not. But being someone who lives with multiple sclerosis this MAY be a big deal. Maybe not. But it makes sense to me. This stuff is real. This is not hypothetical to me. Try being 23 yrs old.. Athletic enough to dunk a basketball with two hands.. Yes I'm a white guy.. And yes I could really jump darn well.. And seemingly do all kinds I'd stuff.. Then go totally blind in the course of five days in my left eye.. Not be able to get out of the car before I went to the bathroom all over myself.. Vertigo so bad I could hardly walk...legs hurt so bad from spasticity that I could hardly stand it or walk very far..this isn't hypothetical. Its real.
Having said all that. I am still very fortunate to be able to do all I can do. I can still do a fair amount. But I still have bad days that sometimes turn into weeks. But I've had very good stretchs too. I am still very very fortunate. But again, is this discovery a big deal?? Maybe, maybe not. I am always wary if the latest news. Time will tell.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Guys... Maybe this is a big discovery .. Maybe not. But being someone who lives with multiple sclerosis this MAY be a big deal. Maybe not. But it makes sense to me. This stuff is real. This is not hypothetical to me. Try being 23 yrs old.. Athletic enough to dunk a basketball with two hands.. Yes I'm a white guy.. And yes I could really jump darn well.. And seemingly do all kinds I'd stuff.. Then go totally blind in the course of five days in my left eye.. Not be able to get out of the car before I went to the bathroom all over myself.. Vertigo so bad I could hardly walk...legs hurt so bad from spasticity that I could hardly stand it or walk very far..this isn't hypothetical. Its real.
Having said all that. I am still very fortunate to be able to do all I can do. I can still do a fair amount. But I still have bad days that sometimes turn into weeks. But I've had very good stretchs too. I am still very very fortunate. But again, is this discovery a big deal?? Maybe, maybe not. I am always wary if the latest news. Time will tell.

It's a huge discovery. If it's confirmed in humans, it could be revolutionary.

Here's hoping it does something for you.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Benito
Originally Posted By: Mystic
But why would the human brain be that different from the brains of the mice?


Because we are more evolved?

"More evolved" is another term that doesn't really mean what people think it means.

You're right in the broad sense, of course. There is a lot we don't share with mice. I get the impression that this particular feature (vessels that carry immune cells into and out of the cerebrospinal fluid) is the kind of thing that we would have as well, just because it's a basic architectural detail. We won't know until we look.

 

[bbhero]

I agree buddy. I agree. But I'm not getting all excited just yet. Time will tell. .

 

[Mystic]

I am sorry to hear about your illness. Hopefully, this new discovery will help medical researchers develop cures for various illnesses such as yours and other illnesses like autism. I see a young boy with high function autism quite often. It is kind of sad. But realistically it will probably be awhile before they are able to make use of the new knowledge.

I am sorry this thread was taken off course. People who have an illness like you are probably very happy to hear about exciting new discoveries like this. But this is kind of the new normal here at this website I guess. People will try to disrupt a post where somebody merely reported a new medical discovery and did not attack anybody here. I guess it is just our very polarized society.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Always best to go back to the primary source: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature14432.html

Abstract:
Quote:
One of the characteristics of the central nervous system is the lack of a classical lymphatic drainage system. Although it is now accepted that the central nervous system undergoes constant immune surveillance that takes place within the meningeal compartment, the mechanisms governing the entrance and exit of immune cells from the central nervous system remain poorly understood. In searching for T-cell gateways into and out of the meninges, we discovered functional lymphatic vessels lining the dural sinuses. These structures express all of the molecular hallmarks of lymphatic endothelial cells, are able to carry both fluid and immune cells from the cerebrospinal fluid, and are connected to the deep cervical lymph nodes. The unique location of these vessels may have impeded their discovery to date, thereby contributing to the long-held concept of the absence of lymphatic vasculature in the central nervous system. The discovery of the central nervous system lymphatic system may call for a reassessment of basic assumptions in neuroimmunology and sheds new light on the aetiology of neuroinflammatory and neurodegenerative diseases associated with immune system dysfunction.


Basically, they figured out how the immune system's cells move in and out of the fluid that surrounds the brain. This isn't the kind of "connection" that most people will think of when they read clickbait headlines -- but yes, very significant indeed.


I agree. *If* they find the same thing in humans as they did in mice. Here's hoping.

 

[Benito]

So how long will that be? It's not really news until we have that confirmation. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush.

 

[d00df00d]

Even if it isn't eventually confirmed for humans, it'll still have been big news. For one thing, it validates the techniques the researchers used. It also enhances our understanding of the mouse models. If the gravy train ends there, that'll be unfortunate, but at least the ball will be a few yards down the field from where it was.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Benito
So how long will that be? It's not really news until we have that confirmation. A bird in hand is better than two in the bush.


Well, there is no telling how long it could take.

But the discovery shows a new pathway to research. Following that path could lead to other discoveries and pathways.

Could even lead to accidental discoveries like the pacemaker.

Nobel prize-winning biochemist Albert Szent-Györgyi: 'A discovery is said to be an accident meeting a prepared mind'

Science is so much better than anecdotes.

 

[Benito]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Even if it isn't eventually confirmed for humans, it'll still have been big news. For one thing, it validates the techniques the researchers used. It also enhances our understanding of the mouse models. If the gravy train ends there, that'll be unfortunate, but at least the ball will be a few yards down the field from where it was.


If you've ever read or listened to Dr Caldwell Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic, you may have heard that when he explained to his colleagues what the root cause of heart disease was, they all said it didn't change anything because of how the system was set up for surgery, statins, research etc as well as what patients were willing to do. The medical profession wasn't going to let go of what made them money in exchange for dispensing advice to patients about their diet.

1500 people die a day from cancer in the US, and that's the second leading cause of death after heart disease.

I've always wondered what is the root cause of the higher incidences of diseases we see as well as new ones we never saw before or think we saw before. The mainstream medical profession has just or is now actually coming round to what some people were saying about diet's effect on diabetes, heart disease and cancer. What will they say in 10 years time about the newer diseases?

I've also heard so many incidences of medical science telling us what is safe and is not safe at the level of an individual component. Perhaps they should take a leaf out of the tribology mantra that it's not an individual component but how it all works together. If that's true of an internal combustion engine, think how true it must be for a human being.

The money pours into finding treatments for diseases once they have occurred. Very little money, and perhaps more importantly time, is set aside for understanding root causes and changing lifestyles.

 

[NHHEMI]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well...I have known there was some kind of connection. I have Multiple Sclerosis. The relationship between the two can be cantankerous at times. Right now.. I need a break through. I miss my real, regular job that I did and can still do. I am a RN. But due to my unknown condition day to day.. I lost the ability to work on a scheduled basis. 75% of the time I still can do my job but not on someone else's schedule. So I work in a different role. I want to do what I know I can do. Just hard now. Has been for almost two years now. But it will work out in the longer run. Just hard being patient sometimes.


Guys... Maybe this is a big discovery .. Maybe not. But being someone who lives with multiple sclerosis this MAY be a big deal. Maybe not. But it makes sense to me. This stuff is real. This is not hypothetical to me. Try being 23 yrs old.. Athletic enough to dunk a basketball with two hands.. Yes I'm a white guy.. And yes I could really jump darn well.. And seemingly do all kinds I'd stuff.. Then go totally blind in the course of five days in my left eye.. Not be able to get out of the car before I went to the bathroom all over myself.. Vertigo so bad I could hardly walk...legs hurt so bad from spasticity that I could hardly stand it or walk very far..this isn't hypothetical. Its real.
Having said all that. I am still very fortunate to be able to do all I can do. I can still do a fair amount. But I still have bad days that sometimes turn into weeks. But I've had very good stretchs too. I am still very very fortunate. But again, is this discovery a big deal?? Maybe, maybe not. I am always wary if the latest news. Time will tell.


I can 100% understand where you are coming from. I was diagnosed with MS( relapsing variety )back in 2009. Unfortunately, it hit my eye sight( left eye as well )and I can no longer safely do the work I was( construction and finish carpentry ). I also just do not have the energy, stamina, or strength I once did because of it. As you say, you never know from day to day how you will be doing or feel either. I have a lot of pain in my legs I have to take pain med's for to cope with too( started within last year sadly ).

It is a million times worse for me when it is hot and humid as well. I never cared for the heat but now it literally is dangerous for me. Only 2X's I have ever been in an ambulance where MS related episodes in the heat. The shots I have to take 3X's a week really do a number on me as well( severe flu like symptoms )but I will trade that off for not being wheel chair bound.

MS sure does hit you hard that is for sure. Like you, although I was 41 when it hit me not just 23 like you, I never really was sick or hurt much before either. Pretty healthy all my life. It sure came out of the blue when it took me down as you experienced.

Best of luck with it and I hope you make it through your life without really being crippled up by it. 7 years now for me this month and knock on wood I have stayed pretty stable overall.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Benito
If you've ever read or listened to Dr Caldwell Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic, you may have heard that when he explained to his colleagues what the root cause of heart disease was, they all said it didn't change anything because of how the system was set up for surgery, statins, research etc as well as what patients were willing to do. The medical profession wasn't going to let go of what made them money in exchange for dispensing advice to patients about their diet.

1500 people die a day from cancer in the US, and that's the second leading cause of death after heart disease.

I've always wondered what is the root cause of the higher incidences of diseases we see as well as new ones we never saw before or think we saw before. The mainstream medical profession has just or is now actually coming round to what some people were saying about diet's effect on diabetes, heart disease and cancer. What will they say in 10 years time about the newer diseases?

I've also heard so many incidences of medical science telling us what is safe and is not safe at the level of an individual component. Perhaps they should take a leaf out of the tribology mantra that it's not an individual component but how it all works together. If that's true of an internal combustion engine, think how true it must be for a human being.

The money pours into finding treatments for diseases once they have occurred. Very little money, and perhaps more importantly time, is set aside for understanding root causes and changing lifestyles.

Can't agree with that last bit; I know there's plenty of research on those points. Whether it's popularized is another matter -- "pill cures disease" is a lot catchier than "team of researchers figure out one piece of a complex network of interrelated causal factors."

Other than that, I'm with you. The medical industrial complex is a big ship to steer, and we certainly have a lot to learn.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: Benito
If you've ever read or listened to Dr Caldwell Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic, you may have heard that when he explained to his colleagues what the root cause of heart disease was, they all said it didn't change anything because of how the system was set up for surgery, statins, research etc as well as what patients were willing to do. The medical profession wasn't going to let go of what made them money in exchange for dispensing advice to patients about their diet.

1500 people die a day from cancer in the US, and that's the second leading cause of death after heart disease.

I've always wondered what is the root cause of the higher incidences of diseases we see as well as new ones we never saw before or think we saw before. The mainstream medical profession has just or is now actually coming round to what some people were saying about diet's effect on diabetes, heart disease and cancer. What will they say in 10 years time about the newer diseases?

I've also heard so many incidences of medical science telling us what is safe and is not safe at the level of an individual component. Perhaps they should take a leaf out of the tribology mantra that it's not an individual component but how it all works together. If that's true of an internal combustion engine, think how true it must be for a human being.

The money pours into finding treatments for diseases once they have occurred. Very little money, and perhaps more importantly time, is set aside for understanding root causes and changing lifestyles.

Can't agree with that last bit; I know there's plenty of research on those points. Whether it's popularized is another matter -- "pill cures disease" is a lot catchier than "team of researchers figure out one piece of a complex network of interrelated causal factors."

Other than that, I'm with you. The medical industrial complex is a big ship to steer, and we certainly have a lot to learn.


Not so sure about the whole set up. My own doctors are not looking to perform surgery on my heart problem. (They tell me they've only seen three like it in their 50+ years.) Yes, surgery could fix it, but it's very high risk and don't want to do it until it's live or die. (And it was discovered by accident...)

And yes, they actually talked to me about diet, smoking, stress, and so on.

 

[Mystic]

Originally Posted By: Benito
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Even if it isn't eventually confirmed for humans, it'll still have been big news. For one thing, it validates the techniques the researchers used. It also enhances our understanding of the mouse models. If the gravy train ends there, that'll be unfortunate, but at least the ball will be a few yards down the field from where it was.


If you've ever read or listened to Dr Caldwell Esselstyn at the Cleveland Clinic, you may have heard that when he explained to his colleagues what the root cause of heart disease was, they all said it didn't change anything because of how the system was set up for surgery, statins, research etc as well as what patients were willing to do. The medical profession wasn't going to let go of what made them money in exchange for dispensing advice to patients about their diet.

1500 people die a day from cancer in the US, and that's the second leading cause of death after heart disease.

I've always wondered what is the root cause of the higher incidences of diseases we see as well as new ones we never saw before or think we saw before. The mainstream medical profession has just or is now actually coming round to what some people were saying about diet's effect on diabetes, heart disease and cancer. What will they say in 10 years time about the newer diseases?

I've also heard so many incidences of medical science telling us what is safe and is not safe at the level of an individual component. Perhaps they should take a leaf out of the tribology mantra that it's not an individual component but how it all works together. If that's true of an internal combustion engine, think how true it must be for a human being.

The money pours into finding treatments for diseases once they have occurred. Very little money, and perhaps more importantly time, is set aside for understanding root causes and changing lifestyles.


I sort of agree with this. I think there is a lot of research into causes of disease and so forth. But there must be a reason, for example, that autism is increasing in numbers and percentage per population, at least in the USA. Some have suggested that aluminum could be a cause. I have tried to stop drinking pop in aluminum cans.

I don't have definite information, but I believe the rates of cancer are increasing. And the rate of heart disease should be increasing in the USA, because a lot of people are overweight.

There are other things that people are being exposed to that are not natural. Like plastics for example.

Aluminum is actually common, but in nature it is highly bound up in combination with other elements.

People have increasingly disrupted the natural flow of things.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: Benito
I kind of like how this thread has gone off the original topic.

I agree that modern medicine has lost it's way. The profit motive and big pharma have played it's part in this.


Big pharma don't want cures; they can't make any money off cures.
What they want is treatment; all the money is in treatment.

 

[bbhero]

I hate to say this but..... I feel there is potentially a lot of truth in this. MS drugs now can cost $5,000 to $12,000 a month. But again, I feel there is a fair amount of truth to Merk's statement. I do not mind people making money at all. But again if illnesses are cured it would not just put big Pharm out of business but many hospitals and staff in those hospitals too.