New lakespeed test!!! Havoline 10W-30 Conventional VS Supertech 10W-30 Full Synthetic

[RDY4WAR]

OK now I can have honest and legitimate questions and critique.

1) Why does he say "wear" all the time? I mean the numbers are so low, they are really nothing. Which is GREAT. I think he just uses the term generically, as do any and all reports. The comparison says one is a gain, meh. We cannot say this, it MAY be statistically significant or it may not. This test does not prove this.

Because wear is what most concerns the general public and the only parameter many even think about.

2) Lower temps with synthetic oil.

Not uncommon.

3) More power with synthetic oil.

Also not uncommon.

4) What are the actual coatings on his rings? I am really intrigued. He said the Si (up?) shows in the UOA from rings , but not elsewhere in the engine. What metal(s)? Ti? I think he said Ti.

I know the composition, but... I'm not burning that bridge. You have the hints, but it's not all of it.

5) He still has too much non value added filler in his video, but I am willing to accept that's a personal dislike. Yacking and referencing other videos.

I agree. His videos could be half the length and still provide all of the information contained within.

6) He works well with his guy at the start, so I am human.

Don is a good guy with a lot of experience in engine building. He's a regular on Lake's Hidden Horsepower videos.

7) Amsoil, HPL and others have a good thing. They, yes are blenders, but have extensive testing ability. Not that he proved or mentioned this, but it's a takeaway - yet he does prove you don't have to have such a facility. Also he mentions SWRI. Amsoil uses them as well for 3rd party.

Agreed

8) I Love love love his "application dictates chemistry". I have been there since 2000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The biggest takeaway from his videos, IMO.

9) Nails it on racing oils and not using them in your daily. People ask me this all the time, I having been saying the same for years.

Generally yes... though I did go 16.9k miles on HPL Bad Ass Racing 0W-20. That's HPL though, not like VR1 or Driven XP.

10) Yes I do pay a sponsor fee here.

And we're glad to have you here.

 

[factorytuned2012]

Super tech comes from 3 suppliers. Wonder if it was Warren, Mobil or pennzoil.

 

[userfriendly]

Super tech comes from 3 suppliers. Wonder if it was Warren, Mobil or pennzoil.

It could be from Petro-Canada for all you know. A dollar a litre by the rail car load.

 

[OilStainedNapkin]

Super tech comes from 3 suppliers. Wonder if it was Warren, Mobil or pennzoil.

Source?

 

[factorytuned2012]

Source

 

[dnewton3]

No self-respecting lab tech or QAE would endorse his methodology or conclusions.

Sample sizes are simply too small; it’s anecdotal “science” meant for YT. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg …

I do not doubt his credentials. But those credentials clearly don’t include any meaningful form of understanding DOE protocol.

If he attempted to submit these “test results” for SAE review he’d be laughed at all the way back to his niche on YT.

 

[OilUzer]

I used Chevron Supreme 5W-30 and 10W-30 from Costco for MANY years. All the cars are still running fine and burn none! Sold one of them.

I thought Supreme was all dino but when I joined bitog, found out that the CS 5W-30 is a blend but the jug didn't say syn-blend.

Conclusion:
Reasonable OCIs will take care of oxidation bogeyman. Most of us aren't racing!

 

[DFWoilguy]

I used Chevron Supreme 5W-30 and 10W-30 from Costco for MANY years. All the cars are still running fine and burn none! Sold one of them.

I thought Supreme was all dino but when I joined bitog, found out that the CS 5W-30 is a blend but the jug didn't say syn-blend.

Conclusion:
Reasonable OCIs will take care of oxidation bogeyman. Most of us aren't racing!

I remember when I lived in WA a decade ago. The WM in Puyallup had Chevron Supreme for like $12-13?? for a 5qt jug !! Boy I miss those days lol

 

[Glenda W.]

I used Chevron Supreme 5W-30 and 10W-30 from Costco for MANY years. All the cars are still running fine and burn none! Sold one of them.

I thought Supreme was all dino but when I joined bitog, found out that the CS 5W-30 is a blend but the jug didn't say syn-blend.

Conclusion:
Reasonable OCIs will take care of oxidation bogeyman. Most of us aren't racing!

Great oil. I used it for years in the 80’s and early 90’s in SBC’s.

 

[ka9mnx]

Facial expressions at it's finest...

 

[doublebase]

The biggest take away I took from this latest video is to look at the bottom of the oil container. Unfortunately I did just that yesterday changing my son’s oil (Pennzoil Euro 5W30), and it did look like there was some stuff there at the bottom of the empty container.

The next jug I shook up BEFORE, and halfway full and MY LORD the color of the oil being poured got very different looking during that second half. And there appeared to be nothing at the bottom of the empty container.

From now on I will be shaking the ever living crap out of oil jugs during oil changes. Add this to my list of overthinking things.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

The biggest take away I took from this latest video is to look at the bottom of the oil container. Unfortunately I did just that yesterday changing my son’s oil (Pennzoil Euro 5W30), and it did look like there was some stuff there at the bottom of the empty container.

The next jug I shook up BEFORE, and halfway full and MY LORD the color of the oil being poured got very different looking during that second half. And there appeared to be nothing at the bottom of the empty container.

From now on I will be shaking the ever living crap out of oil jugs during oil changes. Add this to my list of overthinking things.

Just get an old paint mixer from Lowe’s/HD

There’s nothing wrong with the oil though. Blackstone did testing before and after shaking and there were minimal differences.

 

[ZeeOSix]

The biggest take away I took from this latest video is to look at the bottom of the oil container. Unfortunately I did just that yesterday changing my son’s oil (Pennzoil Euro 5W30), and it did look like there was some stuff there at the bottom of the empty container.

How old was that jug of oil? Some oil's have fall-out worse than others, even if the oil isn't very old.

 

[PontiacHO]

So the final conclusion was the test that that revealed the least amount of the “special” piston ring coating? In my mind the first sample would show the most “wear”, the second-not as much, and so as it goes. The winner is the last sample taken? If that’s his findings, he’s a bonifide stone cold genius…

 

[Pablo]

No self-respecting lab tech or QAE would endorse his methodology or conclusions.

Sample sizes are simply too small; it’s anecdotal “science” meant for YT. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg …

I do not doubt his credentials. But those credentials clearly don’t include any meaningful form of understanding DOE protocol.

If he attempted to submit these “test results” for SAE review he’d be laughed at all the way back to his niche on YT.

This is what my 35+ years as a ASQ CQE says, but you know, some PR always involved.

Those 1-2-3 ppm Fe and such? There can be no conclusions. And to his slight credit he says this. Fast and mumbly - well he implies it!

 

[kschachn]

This is what my 35+ years as a ASQ CQE says, but you know, some PR always involved.

Those 1-2-3 ppm Fe and such? There can be no conclusions. And to his slight credit he says this. Fast and mumbly - well he implies it!

Yes and same for my many years as a research technologist at a large corporation.

 

[JavierH19]

Facial expressions at it's finest...

He always gives off the impression he's micro dosing something hard.

 

[OilStainedNapkin]

I used Chevron Supreme 5W-30 and 10W-30 from Costco for MANY years. All the cars are still running fine and burn none! Sold one of them.

I thought Supreme was all dino but when I joined bitog, found out that the CS 5W-30 is a blend but the jug didn't say syn-blend.

Conclusion:
Reasonable OCIs will take care of oxidation bogeyman. Most of us aren't racing!

Thinking of going back to CS even though it’s no longer available at Costco. How long were your OCIs on it?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Regardless of the slight changes in wear metals seen and the "validity" of that, there's also a similar correlation between the HP made and the corresponding UOA wear numbers. The oils that showed less wear made more HP because there was less rubbing friction that was causing wear.

I would have liked to see the HTHS viscosity of these oil too, because even a few 10ths of HTHS might help reduce wear by providing a bit more MOFT. The VR-1 did have the highest KV100, so it probably also has the highest HTHS between the three 10W-30 (Havoline KV100 = 10.05, SuperTech KV100 = 10.2 and VR-1 KV100 = 10.8). The VR-1 made the most HP, even though there was probably a hair more oil shearing friction, but a lot less mechanical rubbing friction thereby giving higher HP and less wear.

 

[RevvCats]

I would have liked to see the HTHS viscosity of these oil too, because even a few 10ths of HTHS might help reduce wear by providing a bit more MOFT. The VR-1 did have the highest KV100, so it probably also has the highest HTHS between the three 10W-30 (Havoline KV100 = 10.05, SuperTech KV100 = 10.2 and VR-1 KV100 = 10.8). The VR-1 made the most HP, even though there was probably a hair more oil shearing friction, but a lot less mechanical rubbing friction thereby giving higher HP and less wear.

I asked Valvoline earlier this year about VR1 HTHS and 10W-30 synthetic is 3.32, because Valvoline (Castrol too) is cool like that and will actually answer technical questions unlike Mobil or Pennzoil.