New Jersey Gun Buy Back Program

OVERKILL

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This seems a tad desperate? http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/201...ck_program.html
Quote:
The state Assembly passed a bill today that would expand gun buyback programs across New Jersey in an effort to curb the number of firearms on the streets. The bill would require the state Attorney General to establish a statewide program allowing residents to anonymously surrender guns in exchange for a monetary reward. The vote was 53-22-5. "Gun violence claims live every day," said Assemblyman John McKeon (D-Morris), a sponsor of the measure. "In some communities, it is an all all-too-common reality. We realize a gun buyback program alone will not eliminate gun violence, but it can help enhance public safety by reducing the number of firearms in circulation." The Attorney General's Office launched a gun buyback initiative in 2012. Since then, it's held 10 events throughout the state, recovering nearly 16,000 firearms, including 7,300 handguns and 1,900 illegal guns. This bill (A2895) would require the office to hold at least nine gun buybacks a year. The northern, central, and southern parts of the state would hold three each. One program in each region would be hosted in an urban area with a high crime rate. "A gun in the hands of a violent or disturbed individual is a bad combination," said Assembly Speaker Vincent Prieto (D-Hudson), another sponsor. "This can help keep guns from falling into the wrong hands by creating a controlled environment where individuals looking to get rid of their weapons can do so safely and anonymously." The program would be funded by forfeiture funds received by the Attorney General,; private donations from corporations, small businesses, and individuals; and any other funds that may become available to the Attorney General. To become law, the bill now needs to pass the state Senate and be signed by Gov. Chris Christie. It's unclear how the Republican governor would approach the bill. Christie, a potential candidate for president in 2016, has drawn fire over the last year for vetoing a handful of bills aiming to tighten New Jersey's already strict gun laws in the wake of the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting.
 
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I wish they would stop worrying about guns owned by ordinary law abiding citizens and start worrying about the guns owned by criminals and gangs and terrorists.
 

OVERKILL

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Originally Posted By: Mystic
I wish they would stop worrying about guns owned by ordinary law abiding citizens and start worrying about the guns owned by criminals and gangs and terrorists.
Mystic, are you implying that gang members and criminals won't magically grow a conscience and hand in their firearms when a program like this is created? wink I find it almost amusing that such a notion is successfully pandered on the public and believed to achieve its mission. And as Rand pointed out to me when we talked earlier: Hey, now criminals can steal guns and turn them in for profit! An even greater win for them!
 
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They should specify that only criminals can turn in guns. They could still keep the part about turning in the guns anonymous but require that to receive a check you must present 2 forms of picture ID. This way people turning in guns would recognize this as a government program. They could also make illegals exempt from any of these rules like they do with welfare programs. They should also expand the program to include RPG's, knives, IED's, cannons and military grade biological weapons. The next step would be to pass a law that bans criminals from having guns and taking things that don't belong to them. With computers now, there's no end to the number of new laws that could be created even if all they had to do was enforce the old ones. Who want's last years laws, anyhow.
 

JHZR2

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The FBI says that somewhere north of 100k guns are stolen every year. By definition, that means that they are going into the hands of criminals. I wouldn't doubt that most are sold on to others who have other uses for them. But if they are able to be sold to a ready customer who is not yet another criminal, how is that bad? There are also folks who inherit or otherwise obtain guns and don't want them. Not sure why they wouldn't sell them to a sporting goods store, but some folks just don't think about their own options. NJ has lots of bad and stupid gun laws on the books. We take part in a variety of efforts to get them overturned (for what it's worth). Something like this is far from any concern or issue, and one of the better ideas going.
 

OVERKILL

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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
The FBI says that somewhere north of 100k guns are stolen every year. By definition, that means that they are going into the hands of criminals. I wouldn't doubt that most are sold on to others who have other uses for them. But if they are able to be sold to a ready customer who is not yet another criminal, how is that bad?
Well, I assume the original owner never gets the gun back right? I hadn't thought of it quite from this angle but I'm sure you can appreciate the one Rand brought to my attention about theft for the sake of turn-in sale where one doesn't have to worry about the deal going "sideways" and I'm sure the government pays better wink
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
There are also folks who inherit or otherwise obtain guns and don't want them. Not sure why they wouldn't sell them to a sporting goods store, but some folks just don't think about their own options.
I don't see a benefit here based on exactly what you stated. If somebody was looking to sell a (legitimate) firearm, why wouldn't they just take it into a local sporting goods store?
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
NJ has lots of bad and stupid gun laws on the books. We take part in a variety of efforts to get them overturned (for what it's worth). Something like this is far from any concern or issue, and one of the better ideas going.
I don't know if it is good or bad. I just don't like the direction it is heading, which seems to hint at disarmament shrug And apparently that idea has crossed the mind of at least one person at that same publication: http://www.nj.com/opinion/index.ssf/2014/09/nj_gun_buyback_programs.html
 

Astro14

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Gun buyback programs are a monumental failure in every case. They offer a paltry sum for a gun (like, $100), so they only get a few guns turned in, all from law-abiding citizens and most are single shot, hunting rifles, or grandpa's old shotgun. Look at the pile of guns in the pictures; old scoped .22 rifles, rusty shotguns, a few ancient revolvers, mostly junk that wasn't a threat to begin with. There are a few decent looking older rifles and shotguns...so, they've managed to dupe the elderly, the ignorant, and into selling them something below its market value....take advantage of your citizens, that's the plan? If NJ is able to get 15,000 guns turned in, out of the roughly 300,000,000 in circulation in the US, and none of them are from criminals, what have they done except to spend the public's money and delude themselves into feeling good...because "we have to do something"...
 
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If a gun buy-back program is the best our politicians can do then it's business as usual at city hall. When they get done with their buy-back there must be something else they can spend our tax dollars on. After all it's not their money.
 
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Thought it might be an oil buyback or something smile Oz' buyback was a raging success according to the politicians. However, they refuse to acknowledge publicly that they got less than a third of the SKS/SKK that arrived (legally) in the country. Cynically, they offered $80-100 for a semi-auto .22, with penalty of 2 years in Jail for not complying...Krico at the time was over $350, but they worked on the fact that they could shake down those who were abiding by the laws. They offered $7k for an FNFAL (L1A1), which was already illegal to own, and already subject to 2 years jail...they didn't get many of those. A local firearms museum tried to sell them a few dozen Bren's which went to court,and they were forced to pay LOL. Quite a few cops rounded out their collections by people turning up with bolt actions, pistols, all sorts of stuff that the Police just took home, as there was no payment on those...they weren't semis. In spite of the rampant success, the 10mm Glock is the favourite of the thugs and gangbangers, in spite of them never ever being sold to civilians, and thus never been able to have ever been stolen from a civilian...how do you explain that in an entirely water surrounded continent/country ?
 
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Look at prescription drug turn-in programs. The premise is if there's unused dangerous stuff in peoples' houses, it gives crooks a better chance at grabbing something useful if they break in. People get complacent about the unused cultch in their homes. If its more convenient to turn them in, more will get turned in. If a gun is (nearly) forgotten about it's not serving a home defense purpose anyway.
 
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Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
When they get done with their buy-back there must be something else they can spend our tax dollars on. After all it's not their money.
I see where you read it was funded by criminal asset seizure and private donation.
 
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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
But if they are able to be sold to a ready customer who is not yet another criminal, how is that bad?
In this case, isn't the "ready customer who is not yet another criminal" you, in the form of your taxpayer dollars being used to buy guns that aren't threads to public safety to begin with? To me, the question isn't "how is that bad?", it's "how is this a productive use of taxpayer dollars?".
 
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It is quite the feel good project for the politicians. You should see the guns that come in. Most are in horrible condition an worthless. Always good to get a gun, unused and broken, away from someone who inherited it or doesn't want it anymore. Politicians will tout XXX guns turned in!! We've made out street safer! What they don't tell you is that lots of these are useless junk; gun shop owners travel all over to hand in for more than what they could sell it for. At least in my area, the bad guys never showed up to turn their guns in for cash. Go figure! Maybe we were not offering enough cash!
 
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Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
When they get done with their buy-back there must be something else they can spend our tax dollars on. After all it's not their money.
I see where you read it was funded by criminal asset seizure and private donation.
Actually, once monies are forfeited there is a mandate the funds be spent by law enforcement only, on law enforcement projects, no general fund deposits allowed. Not including the donations of course. So it is indeed the departments money in the fact that it could have been spent to offset a budget item for the department.
 
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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
But if they are able to be sold to a ready customer who is not yet another criminal, how is that bad?
In this case, isn't the "ready customer who is not yet another criminal" you, in the form of your taxpayer dollars being used to buy guns that aren't threads to public safety to begin with? To me, the question isn't "how is that bad?", it's "how is this a productive use of taxpayer dollars?".
My thoughts as well. Sad that many people think these programs accomplish something.
 

Win

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Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
When they get done with their buy-back there must be something else they can spend our tax dollars on. After all it's not their money.
I see where you read it was funded by criminal asset seizure and private donation.
That, by itself, is extraordinarily troubling. Asset seizure is one of the worst abuses ever forced upon the public by government. I don't know about New Jersey, but around here it is tantamount to for profit law "enforcement". It is very common for no criminal charges to ever be filed, even though assets supposedly related to criminal activity have been seized. And the usual targets are the people with the least means to resist this despicable activity. Government is like any other criminal - they don't pick out hard targets. How are you going to fight an asset seizure, when you don't have the money to hire a lawyer because your bank accounts and the few things you can sell in a hurry to raise cash have been seized? Many people just give up and go on. And the money seized goes right back into the abusive program to expand the abuse. This, and the militarization of police, are the two worst things I've seen foisted on the public in three decades of practicing. Both need to be scaled back, not ramped up. If people want to donate money to it, then fine, they can voluntarily do whatever they wish with their money. Gun buy backs are just stupid. The idea that criminals are going to turn their guns in is laughable. Why would they? Most are stupid, but they're not that stupid. As correctly pointed out by Astro, this is going to gather up junk that was no threat to begin with, or Grandpa's old shotgun and Grandma's rusty .32 revolver.
 
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Good for NJ. I'd rather have them turned into scrap by the state rather than the owner selling them via private sale to some stranger who hasn't been vetted or worse stolen. That's the purpose of these buybacks after all. It has nothing to do with expecting "criminals " to turn in their weapons.
 
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JHZR2

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Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
But if they are able to be sold to a ready customer who is not yet another criminal, how is that bad?
In this case, isn't the "ready customer who is not yet another criminal" you, in the form of your taxpayer dollars being used to buy guns that aren't threads to public safety to begin with? To me, the question isn't "how is that bad?", it's "how is this a productive use of taxpayer dollars?".
Because your premise that this is taxpayers money is inaccurate, at least thus far and at least in NJ. Im sure there is a push for tax money, but currently, "Each weapon collected in Camden cost the state of New Jersey $250 at most. In all, the state spent $156,000, none of which was directly borne by taxpayers. 'Money seized from drug dealers is now being used to make our streets safer,' Loriquet said." http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2013/01/attorney_general_will_hold_mor.html But as myself and others mentioned, it is often unwanted stuff, "Since the city pays $200 per gun, he claims most of the weapons the programs recover in Newark come from out-of-state residents looking to turn a profit, or older residents disposing of weapons long stowed away." The 1137 gun buyback did include a number of "assault" weapons. IMO, right now it may not be a perfect process, but if in the end one could monetize illegal weapons and get them out of the hands of some people, is it not better than to not? I just dont get the outlook of some that it is unsolvable, so just arm yourself and wait for the instance to return fire and take out the criminal that way. I have to believe that we havent stooped quite so low as a society that massive armament and perpetual violence is the only solution here.
 

Astro14

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This whole program is like touting "cash for clunkers" as a way to get Porsches off the streets. Nobody turns in a Porsche in a cash for clunkers deal....and no one is turning in the very weapons that the politicians want off the streets. "We've made our streets safer by taking single shot, rusty old rifles and junk out of law abiding citizens closets!" Yep, precisely the weapons that the criminal element were after.....
 
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