New guy here with a quick question

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VCT is enable and I have the stock cams in her.

I think I'm going to step up to a 0W30 or 5W30 this weekend, run another test after I put 4,000 miles on her, and go from there.


Sound good?

Thank you again guys for the responses.
 
The only thing heavier oil should cause (as in my reasoning) is a delay in VCT if VCT is visc dependent. Otherwise it's a parasitic loss issue. This doesn't mean that there aren't other side effects, but if the same engine is sold in Canada and doesn't come with a warning sticker saying "don't drive in -XXc, you'll shoot your eye out, kid" ..then I'm sure that the visc of a 5w-40 in NJ hovering around 32F shouldn't mean squat.
 
Maybe try SSO 0W-30. Very thing 30-weight, 'recommended' in 20-weight apps. Was a very recent recent UOA on this same engine/oil combo, and it was good.
 
Your typical Xw-20 oil has a High Temp High Shear viscosity (HTHS) of around 2.6.

How much have you increased your engine's torque and power? 50% or so?
My suggestion is that you increase the HTHS value by a similar margin.

If my 50% guess is close, you'd need an HTHS of about 4 to retain roughly the same film thickness and protection. (I doubt the two scale perfectly, but we're just trying to get in the ballpark.) Remember, when in doubt, it's best to err on the side of 'thicker.' Thick oil cannot begin to hurt the engine, whereas insufficient viscosity can allow real damage.

Within the M1 world, 10w-40HM (4.1), 0w-40 (3.7), 15w-50 (4.5), or 5w-40TDT (3.9) would be reasonable choices. Of course there are dozens of other brands and grades that would work equally well. Redline's oils are highly thought of; their 0w-40 (4.0) or 10w30 (3.8) are both close to our hypothetical 4.0 target.

My two cents.
 
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Hmm.. power / torque is up roughly 80%. You figure the avg. GT is putting down 265whp and I'm around 480whp now.

I'm not running cats so emissions is not a worry.
 
Here's our good friend, the Stribeck Curve.

Stribeck Curve.gif


It plots wear and oil film thickness as a function of RPM, load, and oil viscosity (HTHS).


Let's assume your stock engine, running xW-20 oil, was operating somewhere around 40~50 (on the horizontal axis) when under maximum stress. This may well be a pessimistic guess, but since we don't know, "better safe than sorry!"

You've gone and nearly doubled torque. This should have a similar effect on bearing load. Suddenly, you're operating in the 20~30 zone, and the oil is starting to give way. To make things worse, the supercharger will be produing max torque at relatively low RPM. Since high RPM helps maintain oil film, his further divides the formula's number, moving you further to the left.

Now, there are anti wear additives in the oil (like ZDDP, Moly, etc.) that allow hardened steel surfaces (like those found in cam gear) to survive continued operation in the mixed/boundary zone. I don't know how effective these additives will be when plain bearings suffer oil film collapse. Plain bearings not built of steel and are not (IMO) really designed to survive much rubbing together.

Since we don't know how much safety margin your car had to begin with (how far to the right of the ~35 danger zone), we don't know exactly how much thicker an oil you should run.

Without a better understanding of specifics, I'd suggest you double the HTHS of the oil you run. This gets you into the xW-40w/50w zone, with HTHS values near 5. M1's thickest is 15w-50, close at 4.5. Redline's 10W-40 measures 4.8, and I might be tempted to toss in a quart of something even thicker.

Over time, with UOA analysis to guide you, you could probably work your way down to a thinner mix. This would recover a few of the HP that the thick oil will rob your engine. But for now I'd be inclined to be safe. Go find some syrup for your car!
 
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Originally Posted By: Geonerd
Here's our good friend, the Stribeck Curve.

Stribeck Curve.gif


It plots wear and oil film thickness as a function of RPM, load, and oil viscosity (HTHS).


Let's assume your stock engine, running xW-20 oil, was operating somewhere around 40~50 (on the horizontal axis) when under maximum stress.

You've gone and nearly doubled torque. This should have a similar effect on bearing load. Suddenly, you're operating in the 20~30 zone, and the oil is starting to give way. To make things worse, the supercharger will be produing max torque at relatively low RPM. Since high RPM helps maintain oil film, his further divides the formula's number, moving you further to the left.

Now, there are anti wear additives in the oil (like ZDDP, Moly, etc.) that allow hardened steel surfaces (like those found in cam gear) to survive continued operation in the mixed/boundary zone. I don't know how effective these additives will be when plain bearings suffer oil film collapse. Plain bearings not built of steel and are not (IMO) really designed to survive much rubbing together.

Since we don't know how much safety margin your car had to begin with (how far to the right of the ~35 danger zone), we don't know exactly how much thicker an oil you should run.

Without a better understanding of specifics, I'd suggest you double the HTHS of the oil you run. This gets you into the xW-40w/50w zone, with HTHS values near 5. M1's thickest is 15w-50, close at 4.5. Redline's 10W-40 measures 4.8, and I might be tempted to toss in a quart of something even thicker.

Over time, with UOA analysis to guide you, you could probably work your way down to a thinner mix. This would recover a few of the HP that the thick oil will rob your engine. But for now I'd be inclined to be safe. Go find some syrup for your car!


HaHa!!

I'm looking at the Redline 40 weight now.. I'm not worried about the few hp the oil will eat. ..the VCT functionality is worry'n me now though.
 
Originally Posted By: VistaBlueGT

I'm looking at the Redline 40 weight now.. I'm not worried about the few hp the oil will eat. ..the VCT functionality is worry'n me now though.

You should contact Red Line to see what they say.

-Dennis
 
Ya know, I'm afraid I've made a bit of a monkey of myself!
I was so fixated on supercharger boost and increased piston pressure, I completely forgot about inertial stresses.
blush.gif


The force required to sling the con-rod and piston up and down rises rapidly (exponentially, I believe) with RPM, soon overwhelming any combustion pressure stresses. Your engine's crank bearings will hopefully be designed to stay in the hydrodynamic zone at redline, when max oil film stress occurs.

I'm still a little worried about low RPM, high (boosted) torque situations. Some increase in HTHS still seems prudent, but a doubling it likely overkill.

What did the Redline Oil folks say?

-Moo
 
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Redline just got back to me..

They said their 5W20 would be fine, but if I was worried about it to go with their 5W30.. but not to go with the 40 weight due to stock clearances.

So I guess I'm back to 30 weight oil. Other then extreme cold conditions, would there be any reason for me to run the 0W30?
 
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