I dont see the reasoning for clearances in a street engine that would require 20W50.
New flat tappet engine?
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Originally Posted By: Gene K
I dont see the reasoning for clearances in a street engine that would require 20W50.
This FE Ford Big block engines(352,390,460) uses very high weight valve springs compared to say a sb chevy engine. Lots of pressure on the cam. The rec of builders for a stock sb chevy was 30w for many years. Modern engines with roller valve-train have diff needs. 20w50 is the correct oil for this app, even if it's a DD. I'm sure 30w would be "ok", but why use the wrong oil?
I dont see the reasoning for clearances in a street engine that would require 20W50.
This FE Ford Big block engines(352,390,460) uses very high weight valve springs compared to say a sb chevy engine. Lots of pressure on the cam. The rec of builders for a stock sb chevy was 30w for many years. Modern engines with roller valve-train have diff needs. 20w50 is the correct oil for this app, even if it's a DD. I'm sure 30w would be "ok", but why use the wrong oil?
Originally Posted By: porkchop01
I emailed Castrol with questions about my new engine and this is what I got back from them. Sounds like a pretty good response to me, Might be a castrol user again in the very near future.
Thank you for contacting Castrol.
The new formula Syntec 20W-50 for classic cars is actually API SM. The statement "Recommended for Classic Cars" should be visible in the middle of the back label.
Note that the Zinc levels (actually the Sulfur and Phosphorus levels) in the API SM / ILSAC GF-4 viscosity grades are defined by a table of requirements but in basic terms 20W-50 is not held to the same requirements as the lower viscosity grades (5W-20, 0W-30, 5w30, 10w30); 20W-50 can be higher.
Current Syntec 20W-50 (for classic cars) is actually a modern premium quality API SM product that has been Zinc boosted to Zinc levels that are reminiscent of Zinc levels from historic API categories such as SG when flat tappet cams with high spring loads were common in the fleet. For reference, note that the API SM category has the most rigorous passenger car engine oil (PCO) test performance requirements in the history of the API PCO categories.
The level of Zinc in the new Syntec 20W-50 is a minimum of 1200 ppm, which will provide excellent anti-wear protection for the cam and lifters in a flat-tappet cam engine.
Castrol consumer Relations
I hate to sound like a Valvoline salesman, given OVERK1LL's rather rude statements above, but isn't this what VR1 is? It's Synpower with 1200 ppm zinc and a blue die pack. And it comes in 20w-50. We've come full circle! VR1 was right.
I emailed Castrol with questions about my new engine and this is what I got back from them. Sounds like a pretty good response to me, Might be a castrol user again in the very near future.
Thank you for contacting Castrol.
The new formula Syntec 20W-50 for classic cars is actually API SM. The statement "Recommended for Classic Cars" should be visible in the middle of the back label.
Note that the Zinc levels (actually the Sulfur and Phosphorus levels) in the API SM / ILSAC GF-4 viscosity grades are defined by a table of requirements but in basic terms 20W-50 is not held to the same requirements as the lower viscosity grades (5W-20, 0W-30, 5w30, 10w30); 20W-50 can be higher.
Current Syntec 20W-50 (for classic cars) is actually a modern premium quality API SM product that has been Zinc boosted to Zinc levels that are reminiscent of Zinc levels from historic API categories such as SG when flat tappet cams with high spring loads were common in the fleet. For reference, note that the API SM category has the most rigorous passenger car engine oil (PCO) test performance requirements in the history of the API PCO categories.
The level of Zinc in the new Syntec 20W-50 is a minimum of 1200 ppm, which will provide excellent anti-wear protection for the cam and lifters in a flat-tappet cam engine.
Castrol consumer Relations
I hate to sound like a Valvoline salesman, given OVERK1LL's rather rude statements above, but isn't this what VR1 is? It's Synpower with 1200 ppm zinc and a blue die pack. And it comes in 20w-50. We've come full circle! VR1 was right.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: 660mag
Originally Posted By: Gene K
I dont see the reasoning for clearances in a street engine that would require 20W50.
This FE Ford Big block engines(352,390,460) uses very high weight valve springs compared to say a sb chevy engine. Lots of pressure on the cam. The rec of builders for a stock sb chevy was 30w for many years. Modern engines with roller valve-train have diff needs. 20w50 is the correct oil for this app, even if it's a DD. I'm sure 30w would be "ok", but why use the wrong oil?
Ford spec'd a 30-weight for the 460 in the trucks.
IMHO, a 15w40 or 5w40 would be more than adequate.
This is a stock rebuild, not a max-effort setup with quick ramps, heavier springs and wilder lobes. At least that's the impression I got from the OP's initial post.
Originally Posted By: Gene K
I dont see the reasoning for clearances in a street engine that would require 20W50.
This FE Ford Big block engines(352,390,460) uses very high weight valve springs compared to say a sb chevy engine. Lots of pressure on the cam. The rec of builders for a stock sb chevy was 30w for many years. Modern engines with roller valve-train have diff needs. 20w50 is the correct oil for this app, even if it's a DD. I'm sure 30w would be "ok", but why use the wrong oil?
Ford spec'd a 30-weight for the 460 in the trucks.
IMHO, a 15w40 or 5w40 would be more than adequate.
This is a stock rebuild, not a max-effort setup with quick ramps, heavier springs and wilder lobes. At least that's the impression I got from the OP's initial post.
Originally Posted By: 660mag
This FE Ford Big block engines(352,390,460) uses very high weight valve springs compared to say a sb chevy engine. Lots of pressure on the cam.
The 460 is not a FE they are part of the 385 engine series which also included the 429(only two engines in this group)...
Fords also have a much larger cam lobe than a SBC and unlike the Chev, rarely suffer from cam failure with the stock springs...
Here's what Ford recommended for their engines in 1969, I don't have '70 specs but I doubt they are any different...
Note this includes ALL engines, no particular group is singled out as requiring different oils... Same applied to my '69 Ranchero(sold) with a 302 as it does to my '69 Fairlane with a 428 Cobra Jet...
This FE Ford Big block engines(352,390,460) uses very high weight valve springs compared to say a sb chevy engine. Lots of pressure on the cam.
The 460 is not a FE they are part of the 385 engine series which also included the 429(only two engines in this group)...
Fords also have a much larger cam lobe than a SBC and unlike the Chev, rarely suffer from cam failure with the stock springs...
Here's what Ford recommended for their engines in 1969, I don't have '70 specs but I doubt they are any different...
Note this includes ALL engines, no particular group is singled out as requiring different oils... Same applied to my '69 Ranchero(sold) with a 302 as it does to my '69 Fairlane with a 428 Cobra Jet...
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: 660mag
This FE Ford Big block engines(352,390,460) uses very high weight valve springs compared to say a sb chevy engine. Lots of pressure on the cam.
The 460 is not a FE they are part of the 385 engine series which also included the 429(only two engines in this group)...
Fords also have a much larger cam lobe than a SBC and unlike the Chev, rarely suffer from cam failure with the stock springs...
Here's what Ford recommended for their engines in 1969, I don't have '70 specs but I doubt they are any different...
Note this includes ALL engines, no particular group is singled out as requiring different oils... Same applied to my '69 Ranchero(sold) with a 302 as it does to my '69 Fairlane with a 428 Cobra Jet...
And the 385 series engines spec'd a 30-weight IIRC in later years. I believe it was 10w30 in the trucks as I mentioned above for the 460.
And yes, I cannot recall a Ford engine with a failed cam lobe that wasn't inflicted by some other part failure.... Like a roller lifter breaking the dog-bone and turning sideways.
Originally Posted By: 660mag
This FE Ford Big block engines(352,390,460) uses very high weight valve springs compared to say a sb chevy engine. Lots of pressure on the cam.
The 460 is not a FE they are part of the 385 engine series which also included the 429(only two engines in this group)...
Fords also have a much larger cam lobe than a SBC and unlike the Chev, rarely suffer from cam failure with the stock springs...
Here's what Ford recommended for their engines in 1969, I don't have '70 specs but I doubt they are any different...
Note this includes ALL engines, no particular group is singled out as requiring different oils... Same applied to my '69 Ranchero(sold) with a 302 as it does to my '69 Fairlane with a 428 Cobra Jet...
And the 385 series engines spec'd a 30-weight IIRC in later years. I believe it was 10w30 in the trucks as I mentioned above for the 460.
And yes, I cannot recall a Ford engine with a failed cam lobe that wasn't inflicted by some other part failure.... Like a roller lifter breaking the dog-bone and turning sideways.
Originally Posted By: porkchop01
I am having a 1970 ford 390 beeing rebuilt back to new and need some advice on oil's. What should be used for break in and normal use? the engine will be stock with only a mild RV cam. Allso, the builder says they prefer 20w50 and they sell Brad Penn and Joe Gibbs oil there.Are these good choices? Any advice?
I would use one of their oils to break it in then a good 10W40 after that. If hot idle oil pressure is to low move up a grade to 20W50. FE Ford side oilers do very well on 20W50.
I am having a 1970 ford 390 beeing rebuilt back to new and need some advice on oil's. What should be used for break in and normal use? the engine will be stock with only a mild RV cam. Allso, the builder says they prefer 20w50 and they sell Brad Penn and Joe Gibbs oil there.Are these good choices? Any advice?
I would use one of their oils to break it in then a good 10W40 after that. If hot idle oil pressure is to low move up a grade to 20W50. FE Ford side oilers do very well on 20W50.
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Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Wow, 20w-40 oil was recommended above 32F.
Does anybody even make a 20w-40 anymore?
I can only think of Yamalube.....
Wow, 20w-40 oil was recommended above 32F.
Does anybody even make a 20w-40 anymore?
I can only think of Yamalube.....
How about Shell rotella 15w40 and some break in additive for first run in and then then the 20w50 (Brad Penn,Castrol,VR1)?
Originally Posted By: Lost1
As a mechanic I'd suggest going with what your engine builder recommends. He knows his engines and what works in them.
My personal choice would be VR1 conventional 20w50.
Thats kinda what im leaning towards after breakin. thanks
As a mechanic I'd suggest going with what your engine builder recommends. He knows his engines and what works in them.
My personal choice would be VR1 conventional 20w50.
Thats kinda what im leaning towards after breakin. thanks
I'd break in with the 20W50, then use a 10W30 HDEO like Rotella T5 or the Valvoline Racing (that has been free after rebate recently, check the Product Rebate section), the only 20W40 I know of is the Mercruiser marine oil, which wouldn't be a bad choice either. The FE motors didn't strike me as being hard on oil, when we did my brother's '68 F-100 360 FE engine rebuild we had to borrow a stronger engine crane because the one we had had trouble lifting that heavy motor high enough!
Originally Posted By: porkchop01
Originally Posted By: Lost1
As a mechanic I'd suggest going with what your engine builder recommends. He knows his engines and what works in them.
My personal choice would be VR1 conventional 20w50.
Thats kinda what im leaning towards after breakin. thanks
I am thinking that since you live in Texas that you will be driving this car in the spring and summer, a 20W-50 should be fine, I am sure this will not be your daily driver.
Originally Posted By: Lost1
As a mechanic I'd suggest going with what your engine builder recommends. He knows his engines and what works in them.
My personal choice would be VR1 conventional 20w50.
Thats kinda what im leaning towards after breakin. thanks
I am thinking that since you live in Texas that you will be driving this car in the spring and summer, a 20W-50 should be fine, I am sure this will not be your daily driver.
Originally Posted By: TFB1
Originally Posted By: KW
Originally Posted By: KW
porkchop01 said:
I would also go with 20w50 VR1 or Brad Penn, good oil to break it in with. After that, I would go with a 15w40 HDEO.
Those old big blocks like thick oil!
Stay away from 5w# unless you want to wipe the lobes off your cam.
Those old big blocks like thick oil!
Stay away from 5w# unless you want to wipe the lobes off your cam.
Originally Posted By: PontiacFan
Originally Posted By: porkchop01
Originally Posted By: Lost1
As a mechanic I'd suggest going with what your engine builder recommends. He knows his engines and what works in them.
My personal choice would be VR1 conventional 20w50.
Thats kinda what im leaning towards after breakin. thanks
I am thinking that since you live in Texas that you will be driving this car in the spring and summer, a 20W-50 should be fine, I am sure this will not be your daily driver.
No I wont be driving this truck daily,Its me and my sons restoration project.
Originally Posted By: porkchop01
Originally Posted By: Lost1
As a mechanic I'd suggest going with what your engine builder recommends. He knows his engines and what works in them.
My personal choice would be VR1 conventional 20w50.
Thats kinda what im leaning towards after breakin. thanks
I am thinking that since you live in Texas that you will be driving this car in the spring and summer, a 20W-50 should be fine, I am sure this will not be your daily driver.
No I wont be driving this truck daily,Its me and my sons restoration project.
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