I have a 1965 Sunbeam Tiger with an early 289 Ford V8, performance Cam & flat tappets. I have been told to use a High ZDP (Zinc) oil, like PENN 1 10W40, to keep the Cam and Tappets from wearing. The previous owner was using Castrol GTX 5W30 for street use, but the original builder used RED-2001 10W40 for Auto Cross racing. Can I use Havoline 10W40 for street use without undue wear on the Cam & Tappets, or should I change to the high ZDP race oil like PENN grade 1?
Havoline 10W40 use for HiPo 289 with flat tappets
- Thread starter tlslack
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I use Havoline 10w-40 once in a while, they and other blenders seemed to keep older cars in mind when formulating these oils. Pennzoil in particular is noted to be good for muscle cars.
I'm not the best person to respond, but I'm first, lol.
A safe route would be 15w40 HD oils, or even better, Rotella 10w30....maybe my 1st choice...decent on cold too. "USA" has some cold areas.
Valvoline VR-1 is a good bet, but only 10w30 and 20w-50....I blend the two viscs of Valvoline Racing Synthetic to taste, you could too, but 10w30 should be fine under 300hp at modest rpms.
Again, I'm not the best to ask. However, Mobil 1 High Miles comes to mind as another high additive oil. RP Race oils are supposed to be good. Brad Penn of course and Schaeffer's too.
AMSoil and Redline could be overkill...in a non-turbo, imo.
Just don't put any additives in your oil.
I'm not the best person to respond, but I'm first, lol.
A safe route would be 15w40 HD oils, or even better, Rotella 10w30....maybe my 1st choice...decent on cold too. "USA" has some cold areas.
Valvoline VR-1 is a good bet, but only 10w30 and 20w-50....I blend the two viscs of Valvoline Racing Synthetic to taste, you could too, but 10w30 should be fine under 300hp at modest rpms.
Again, I'm not the best to ask. However, Mobil 1 High Miles comes to mind as another high additive oil. RP Race oils are supposed to be good. Brad Penn of course and Schaeffer's too.
AMSoil and Redline could be overkill...in a non-turbo, imo.
Just don't put any additives in your oil.
Look this over. It gives some additive info and is a decent primer for a new member.
http://www.pqiamerica.com/
http://www.pqiamerica.com/
I haven't viewed the Havoline 10w40 PDS lately but the SM stuff (if they haven't changed the 10/40 over to SN) looked decent. 900z & 1000p, if memeory servces me right. I really like the look of Havoline 'heavy weight' oils on paper. The dose of moly it contains is nice too.
Regarding your application, you need the valve spring and cam specs. The valve springs specs are more important than the cam specs. A decent rule of thumb is anything more than 100lbs. closed and 300lbs. open (spring pressure) WILL require the use of an oil with GREATER levels of z & p than current PCMO (SM/SN)oils offer. If your spring pressures are below that, an SM oil will work fine for any use other than breakin.
As I have stated before, I have used SM oil for 5K miles in my flat tappet 283 V8. No ill effects did I note. I chose to run Valvoline VR-1 (street legal version) 10-30, just for peace of mind.
Audie Junkie had a good recommnedation in the Rotella 10-30. If it's easy to find for you, I would use it with full confidence.
If it's a solid lifter cam (you didn't note hydrallic or solid flat tappets) I would look for something other than a diesel oil.
Like the Brad Penn 1 you mentioned.
Otherwise, if the previous owner used GTX 5w30 on the street, then I'm sure the valve spring/cam specs are pretty mild. But deffinitely check.
(When I saw the post I was thinking a 'K' code engine)
Regarding your application, you need the valve spring and cam specs. The valve springs specs are more important than the cam specs. A decent rule of thumb is anything more than 100lbs. closed and 300lbs. open (spring pressure) WILL require the use of an oil with GREATER levels of z & p than current PCMO (SM/SN)oils offer. If your spring pressures are below that, an SM oil will work fine for any use other than breakin.
As I have stated before, I have used SM oil for 5K miles in my flat tappet 283 V8. No ill effects did I note. I chose to run Valvoline VR-1 (street legal version) 10-30, just for peace of mind.
Audie Junkie had a good recommnedation in the Rotella 10-30. If it's easy to find for you, I would use it with full confidence.
If it's a solid lifter cam (you didn't note hydrallic or solid flat tappets) I would look for something other than a diesel oil.
Like the Brad Penn 1 you mentioned.
Otherwise, if the previous owner used GTX 5w30 on the street, then I'm sure the valve spring/cam specs are pretty mild. But deffinitely check.
(When I saw the post I was thinking a 'K' code engine)
Vr1 (non-syn) racing oil (SH) is a good start and easy find at most AP stores. Also note that Most Lawn tractor oils have high ZDDP. This is less of an issue AFTER cam wear in, and high zddp sloq proper break in. Moly is what you want to protect the cam, rockers, stems after break in. Cams still wear out in 80K-100K miles with zddp. Always have. You'll loose a lot of snap and power with the heavy diesel oils.
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My rec is Valvoline VR1 10w30. You can get VR1 at many auto parts stores, although they usually only stock the 20w50, and would have to order the 10w30. You can blend the two, but you won't necessarily end up with a 15w- at the cold end of the temperature spectrum. VR1 is such a throwback in ZDDP content that it only meets SH. SJ, SL, and SM all have lower limits. I think P in the VR1 is 1200ppm. API cut the limit on phosporous to 1000ppm starting with SJ, and 800 starting with SM.
First lets get to the most important thing, we need pictures of that little beauty.
Now, to make the oil selection simple, use either Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or the Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.
There, problem solved.
Now, to make the oil selection simple, use either Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or the Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.
There, problem solved.
USE a HDEO ,Shell Rotella OR Chevron Delo 400 or Mobil Delvac 1300 for example . Mobil 1 15w-50 or their 10w-40 motorcycle oil would also be another good choice though cost more.
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Originally Posted By: Johnny
First lets get to the most important thing, we need pictures of that little beauty.
Now, to make the oil selection simple, use either Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or the Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.
There, problem solved.
First lets get to the most important thing, we need pictures of that little beauty.
Now, to make the oil selection simple, use either Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or the Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.
There, problem solved.
The engine is an early 289 rebuilt in 1993. The Cam grind is 296-HDP Hi-Draulic Hauler, Rocker ratio 1.6:1, Intake/Exhaust lifts of 0.507/0.501", spring press of 115 lb closed. Sounds like I need the High ZDDP oil, but not sure if it schould be mineral of synthetic. Not sure what some of the previous owners used, but the original oil in 1993 was Redline 10W40 RED-2001 and the last since 2006 was Castrol GTX 5W30. Are these mineral or synthetic? I was told not to switch to synthetic after long term use of mineral oil, due to repid release of deposits and possible gasket leaks developing. Not sure if this is a real concern or not. I believe all of my gaskets are Felpro.
PS; How do I add a picture to my profile?
PS; How do I add a picture to my profile?
If you just want to post a pic, email it to a member and they will post/host it for you. lmk if you want me to do it.
tslack- that's a healthy crower hydralic for a 289! (What's your dynamic/static compression if you don't mind me asking?) If I were you, I would be in search of a dedicated hi-performance/racing oil instead of diesel oil at this point.
Since the Redline was used before, I would probably seek to use that again.
The GTX is a conventional oil. I would steer away from any SM/SN fluid and quickly, especially with that cam and spring pkg.
Regarding synthetic... really it doesn't matter, unless you are turning some RPM and building heat for extended periods of time in a racing type environment. Which you may be doing since the car was tracked previously. On the street a dino performance oil would be fine.
Your Fel-pro gaskets are of the best quality, so I wouldn't be concerned unless the engine was ill-cared for, but I doubt that.
Sounds like a fun ride.
Since the Redline was used before, I would probably seek to use that again.
The GTX is a conventional oil. I would steer away from any SM/SN fluid and quickly, especially with that cam and spring pkg.
Regarding synthetic... really it doesn't matter, unless you are turning some RPM and building heat for extended periods of time in a racing type environment. Which you may be doing since the car was tracked previously. On the street a dino performance oil would be fine.
Your Fel-pro gaskets are of the best quality, so I wouldn't be concerned unless the engine was ill-cared for, but I doubt that.
Sounds like a fun ride.
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Havoline is a decent oil, but I would'nt recommend it for a flat tappet motor. I used 10w40 in my flat tappet AMC 242 motor and it ran like [censored]. Stay with what was mentioned above, Rotella, Delo, or Valvoline VR1...they all have plenty of zinc. Those are what I use on both of my 6-cly motors with flat tappets....no issues.
I like the plentiful and cheap HDEO in 15-40. Those skinny rod bearings will love it, and the cam will like the extra ZDDP.
This does not eliminate the option of using an additive like Redline has. It may also be a good idea.
This does not eliminate the option of using an additive like Redline has. It may also be a good idea.
Originally Posted By: Johnny
First lets get to the most important thing, we need pictures of that little beauty.
Now, to make the oil selection simple, use either Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or the Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.
There, problem solved.
+1
First lets get to the most important thing, we need pictures of that little beauty.
Now, to make the oil selection simple, use either Shell Rotella T5 10w30 or the Shell Rotella T6 5W-40.
There, problem solved.
+1
Redline oil is about as good as you can get. The 10w40 would be a great oil is you want to spend the $$$$ . I would use HDEO oil unless you were road racing the car .
I beleive the compression is 10.5:1. The car was used for autocross and was not well care for by one of the previous owners. The last owner used it on the street, using Castrol GTX, but did not drive it much. The original Redline oil was used from 1993-2001. I am considering using Brad Penn Grade 1, 10W40, which is a para synthetic. It is a race oil available locally and recommended by local owners of older performance cars. What do you think?
Originally Posted By: Greg L
Havoline is a decent oil, but I would'nt recommend it for a flat tappet motor. I used 10w40 in my flat tappet AMC 242 motor and it ran like [censored].
There are millions of 4.0L's, 2.5L's and 258's running around just fine with SM oils.
The reason he needs a higher ZDP oil is due to his valve spring pressure, not because it's a flat tappet engine.
Havoline is a decent oil, but I would'nt recommend it for a flat tappet motor. I used 10w40 in my flat tappet AMC 242 motor and it ran like [censored].
There are millions of 4.0L's, 2.5L's and 258's running around just fine with SM oils.
The reason he needs a higher ZDP oil is due to his valve spring pressure, not because it's a flat tappet engine.
Originally Posted By: tlslack
I beleive the compression is 10.5:1. The car was used for autocross and was not well care for by one of the previous owners. The last owner used it on the street, using Castrol GTX, but did not drive it much. The original Redline oil was used from 1993-2001. I am considering using Brad Penn Grade 1, 10W40, which is a para synthetic. It is a race oil available locally and recommended by local owners of older performance cars. What do you think?
The compression is spot on for the cam, nice.
I use the Brad Penn 1 and really like it. It should serve you well. Best of luck with it.
I beleive the compression is 10.5:1. The car was used for autocross and was not well care for by one of the previous owners. The last owner used it on the street, using Castrol GTX, but did not drive it much. The original Redline oil was used from 1993-2001. I am considering using Brad Penn Grade 1, 10W40, which is a para synthetic. It is a race oil available locally and recommended by local owners of older performance cars. What do you think?
The compression is spot on for the cam, nice.
I use the Brad Penn 1 and really like it. It should serve you well. Best of luck with it.
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