New Experience - Crown Vic - Breaks Itself!

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Originally Posted By: ekpolk

As for this part, I remain in disagreement. The engineers who designed this thing, an otherwise nice car, should not have designed in the ability for one part, used as designed, to damage another part that is being used as designed. I'm sorry, but that's just not right.


They could have easily put a limit on how far the front seat could move. Would you accept that limitation?
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
As I noted earlier, I stand six-ft overall, but I do have an "odd layout" -- very long trunk, and yes, short legs. When I came through here (Pensacola) in the early 80s for flight school, I almost got disqualified -- for sitting height of all things!


No offense, but based on your description, I get a mental image of Fred Flintstone.
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Originally Posted By: ekpolk

Brian:

Look, I have no particular desire to lock horns with you; you've been a long-time valuable participant here. And this comment has ZERO to do with the "A" next to my name -- if you catch my drift.


!!!!!!!
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
As for this part, I remain in disagreement. The engineers who designed this thing, an otherwise nice car, should not have designed in the ability for one part, used as designed, to damage another part that is being used as designed. I'm sorry, but that's just not right.

They could have easily put a limit on how far the front seat could move. Would you accept that limitation?

Of course. Yes. Really, again, I'm not harpooning the CV. Overall, I'm very impressed with this car. The ability to smash its own cup holder -- a curious, but fairly trivial annoyance. The gas mileage -- well, with a V-8 sucking gas like it does, the thing ought to be able to inflict whiplash with one flick of the driver's toe, but, ahem, it doesn't. OTOH, coming from a Camry-hybrid, I'm obviously spoiled. Other than those "gripes," it's an absolutely lovely car. I want mine back, fixed perfectly of course, but I won't be cryin' too loudly until next week when the body and paint work are done.

Tomorrow morning at "zero dark thirty," I will leave for ATL in the CV, driving my youngest daughter to spend a summer week with a friend who moved away last year. Will be interesting to see how the CV does on a smooth highway trip.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk

Of course. Yes.


So, if there were a limitation on how far the seat could be moved forward--to prevent it from colliding with the open cupholder--you'd be OK with it.

What about a driver who really needs that seat to move further up in order to reach the pedals, and is willing to live with the limitation that they cannot have the cupholder open when the seat is moved up that far?

I think what you see as a flaw is really the result of an engineering compromise to accommodate shorter drivers; especially given how trivial it would be to engineer the power seat to not move up so far.

Quote:
The gas mileage -- well, with a V-8 sucking gas like it does, the thing ought to be able to inflict whiplash with one flick of the driver's toe, but, ahem, it doesn't.


The effect that mine (a 1997 CVPI, ex-VSP) has on other drivers more than makes up for it's lack of acceleration and poor fuel economy
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You are using it wrong. I saw that on a rental crown vic, I was moving the seat forward snd up to get underneath it and heard the cracking sound of stressed plastic as the cupholder flexed upwards (instead of just pushing in).

I rent cars almost weekly, I see some strange things that make it through QC. I have had 3 different ford Edges that had rattles when I got them due to unsnapped interior panels - different ones in each case - of course I had to fix them. Typically these cars had less than 5K on them. One edge that the hood wouldn't close all the way due to some maladjustment.

I had a Ford Edge that if you started out with the display in a mode with the left LCD showing AWD power distribution, the system would hang and go into endless boot loops. The only way out was to turn the car off and change the mode before starting the engine or else the display would go back to rotating between the ford logo, the AWD distribution graph and going blank and starting all over again. When it was in this mode, none of the radio buttons worked.

I used to frequently rent Grand Prix's - about 1 out of every twenty cars would have the intermittant wiper speed adjustment backwards compared to the label on the stalk. It was also not uncommon to get Grand Prix's that the torque converter would continuously lock and unlock about every 5 seconds at steady throttle in top gear on flat road.

I rented a Grand Prix GXP one time that would stall if you floored it for a second and then let off. Great for pulling out into heavy traffic.
 
Jeez, guys. We're all members of a website about motor oil. Pages and pages and pages of threads devoted to MOTOR OIL! And people are getting on him about obsessing about an automotive interior quirk that almost resulting in breaking a cupholder?
 
That's the same cupholder that is in my work truck. I think they've been using it for 20 years. Can't say I blame them for reaching into the parts bin for a car at the end of its lifespan.


I really like the CV. But let's face it, it's a dinosaur. I think there's still room in the marketplace for a few dinosaurs to roam around, but Ford doesn't seem to think so.
 
Originally Posted By: brianl703
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

!!!!!!!


Elkpolk did not intend for his comment to mean that.


Brian:

Thanks for the backup on that. For everyone's clarity, what I was intending was to encourage positive, well-informed discussion, without coming off as a heavy-handed admin who will take action against other members who have the gumption to disagree. For everyone's edification, I will almost never take editorial action in a thread in which I have participated in the discussion. I hope the reason is obvious.

Now, moving on to the trip. Yesterday, I put ~700 on the CV driving to Atlanta and back (dropping kid off to spend a week with a friend). The car was a great highway cruiser. Per the computer (I did not bother trying calculations -- I won't have the car long enough to make a difference), I was averaging about 22.5 mpg -- not bad for a heavy V-8 car driven at almost 80 mph consistently. EPA for this car is 24 hwy. Between that number, and my observations, it's clear that, for better or worse, the Ford engineers have HEAVILY biased the programming of the engine and trans computers for economy, and NOT performance. The car is not a slug, but it clearly lacks the "go" factor I would hope to get from a V-8, even a slightly small one (4.6L).

The seating was also encouraging. The backseat, at least according to my 14 year-old who took it over, was a winner. She was comfortable, liked the way it smelled and "squeaked". I reminded her that she had never enjoyed the luxury of "exclusive ownership" of the Camry's back seat, and that its leather was squeaky and good-smelling when new. She remained unimpressed with my counter-point.

The front seat is ALMOST as good as the one in the Camry. My needs are odd. Beyond my odd shape, I have two herniated disks in my neck -- which makes me "sensitive" to say the least. The headrest in the Camry fits me perfectly, supporting my head at just the right angle for all-day comfort. The headrest in the CV is too high, and too forward. I feared severe neck discomfort on a long trip, but this did not materialize. Not as comfortable as I'd have liked, but not a problem either. While I would not choose them first, I could live with the CV's seats, and well at that.

Now for the fun part. The entertainment factor, which I frankly hadn't really thought about. To save duplication of effort, I will just quote here the relevant portion of a PM I already sent Brian about this.
Originally Posted By: ekpolk
It was as priceless, simply priceless. And this CV doesn't even have the most obvious "sinister cop car cues." It's burgundy red, has alloy wheels and a chrome grille. That said, I did install my large GPS unit and my trusty Valentine-One detector prominently on the windshield. So to some, it probably looked like an "unmarked" car with some "cop stuff" on the dash.

After observing several quite humorous, near-panic responses on the way up to ATL, I started thinking (often a dangerous thing...). This was a rendezvous-drop operation at a huge mall in North ATL, and I noticed a Home Depot next door. I briefly entertained the idea of getting some black electric tape so I could "install" some "faux hidden bluelights" along the top of the windshield and rear glass. But I decided that was just a little too evil...

The best response happened on the way home. Heading down I-85 doing 79-ish myself, I got intercepted from behind by a pack of speeders who were probably averaging 95-ish. Seeing me, they seemed to abruptly slow, presumably for the CV checkout. They apparently dismissed me as a civilian, and resumed their high-speed cruise. I checked the area, and the V1 being silent, I decided to have some fun -- I accelerated to their speed, and started tailing them at about 1/4 mile, and then started gradually closing. All of a sudden, they all quickly dropped to about 72-ish. Silly, if you think about it, since if I were a cop, I'd have had them nailed already, easily. I followed them for a couple miles, and then passed them myself. I guess after they stopped sweating, they finally dismissed me for good, and relit the afterburners.

Hey, I never really considered how a CV comes with built-in entertainment!


This sort of evil amusement could go a long way toward making up for a broken cup holder...
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That is odd about the cup holder. I've been trying to think of a similar quirk I've encountered and just can't remember any. I guess it's an end of life oversight by Ford...why throw money and hours at a car that's going out of production.

One thing I have seen a lot of is features that can't hold up to rental duty. We used to get a lot of off lease, former rental, and corporate cars at an auction I worked at. Jeep Commander rear folding seats were the worst. About one out of every three or four was stuck or had some other issue.

I'm actually surprised that you got such low fuel economy on a mostly highway trip. My dad gets over 25 MPG out of these cars when he rents them, and has gotten 30 MPG before out of one loaded Grand Marquis (sunroof, leather, every option pretty much). He usually drives right around 65 MPH though and rarely goes above 70. Nothing will get him to do 80 MPH, so that's probably why he gets a few more MPG. My dad is a fellow hybrid owner, but he always goes straight for the largest Ford sedan he can get when renting.
 
I regularly get about 27mpg on my Grand Marquis (same thing as a CV). That's all highway miles of course. I never floor it or force the car to accelerate like a madman or anything. It rarely drops down into passing gear either. I suppose that's why I get such good mpg's. No doubt the 4.6 V-8 could produce a whole lot more power, but the way Ford tuned this car I can see why it lasts nearly forever.
 
I average around 25-26 MPG out on the road doing a steady 73 MPH..Around town [we have very long traffic lights] I average around 17.5 MPG..A/C is on all the time..I have zero complaints about that.

I would get better mileage if there was no ethanol in the fuel.
 
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE
I average around 25-26 MPG out on the road doing a steady 73 MPH..Around town [we have very long traffic lights] I average around 17.5 MPG..A/C is on all the time..I have zero complaints about that.

I would get better mileage if there was no ethanol in the fuel.


The sinister smart alec part of my personality insists upon responding that you'd also get better mileage if you car weighed 1000 lbs less and had a hybrid drive system...
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^ Hybrids only get better mpg due to smaller, more efficient engines. However, without the electric bits, they'd be so horrifically underpowered nobody would buy them. If you removed the electric motors and batteries from a hybrid, and kept the shut-off at stops and such, they'd get even better mpg, as it would weigh less.
 
Originally Posted By: ekpolk

The sinister smart alec part of my personality insists upon responding that you'd also get better mileage if you car weighed 1000 lbs less and had a hybrid drive system...
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Every so often I think about getting a Ford Fusion Hybrid or a Ford Escape Hybrid..Unless I am in a Ford I can not get comfortable..I know it sounds strange but thats the way it is..Same goes for my sister,brother and some friends of mine.

BTW the rental agencies in Miami-Dade and Broward County must have bought a ton of 2011 Crown Vics..Last night in South Beach I saw at least 20 roaming the streets and several in motel parking lots along Collins Ave..Today I saw several on I-95 from Miami-Dade to North Broward.
 
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE


Every so often I think about getting a Ford Fusion Hybrid or a Ford Escape Hybrid..Unless I am in a Ford I can not get comfortable..I know it sounds strange but thats the way it is..Same goes for my sister,brother and some friends of mine.

.


All psychological to be sure.

I wonder do you or any of your extended family work for Ford or a related entity? I get the feeling it might be so.
 
Originally Posted By: JoeWGauss
[/quote]

All psychological to be sure.

I wonder do you or any of your extended family work for Ford or a related entity? I get the feeling it might be so.


No..No one in my family [or anyone I know] work for Ford..I really wish someone I know did.

Guess I had Fords for so long anything else just does not feel right.
 
Originally Posted By: JoeWGauss
Originally Posted By: CROWNVIC4LIFE


Every so often I think about getting a Ford Fusion Hybrid or a Ford Escape Hybrid..Unless I am in a Ford I can not get comfortable..I know it sounds strange but thats the way it is..Same goes for my sister,brother and some friends of mine.

.


All psychological to be sure.

I wonder do you or any of your extended family work for Ford or a related entity? I get the feeling it might be so.


I get what he's saying. Fords are easy to get used to. The controls usually make sense, the layout is pretty straight forward, the seats are comfortable (some exceptions), etc. Other people feel the same way about other brands too.

I prefer having a Ford truck as a daily driver. I've driven many different vehicles from most brands, and Ford trucks just work best for me. My boss is the same way...he buys F-150s new, drives them about 250K miles, then sells them in good running condition and gets another one.

And no, I've never worked for Ford. In fact, I've never bought a new one.
 
Originally Posted By: 01rangerxl
I get what he's saying. Fords are easy to get used to. The controls usually make sense, the layout is pretty straight forward, the seats are comfortable (some exceptions), etc. Other people feel the same way about other brands too.


I think each brand out there has its own design language. Those familiar and comfortable with one often take some time to get used to another. I used to really like GM's interior character, but they've moved away from the style that I really liked. I've also liked Toyota and Honda's design language. The ergonomics are incredibly simple.

I also really liked Acura stuff until about 4-5 years ago. I liked the triple-binacle gauges. Acura's (and Honda's) stuff is much more complex-looking now, and I don't like it as much. Both of my SUVs are from the "older" generation that still have fairly conventional-looking interiors. The '07+ MDX is the current generation and looks funky inside to me. The CR-V came out in '07 and is still the same today, but I believe the '12 model will "get funky" like many other current Hondas.

We have two Fusion Hybrids at work and they're fantastic vehicles. I don't like the ergonomics in them, though. The HVAC and radio controls are a sea of small square buttons. Give me the Camry's interior with the Fusion's driving dynamics and you'd have the perfect sedan, at least for me.
 
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