New AC R-1234yf - Is toppin off smart?

[zzyzzx]

Not to mention that 134a was introduced according to the EPA as an ozone friendly refrigerant, and 1234yf 100 times more friendly then that, so why are they saying its such a crime to discharge it.

Because the patent ran out on it. Gotta switch to newer, much more expensive stuff every single time.

 

[RooflessVW]

Because the patent ran out on it. Gotta switch to newer, much more expensive stuff every single time.

Ding ding ding

 

[alarmguy]

I blindly have added refrigerant to vehicles for a very long time and topped off systems. But not R-1234yf.
I have with gauges topped off my two HVAC systems for my home somewhere between 3 and 4 ton units each, well actually only one needed it, though at my home I used gauges. This was after a few years of incompetent AC mechanics checking my system and scratching their heads, as much as to suggest a new system, been working perfect for maybe 5 years now.

So not knowing this R-1234 thing, all I know in the past with vehicles, I like the low pressure side to be cold and sweating, I mean, if your system is working well I wouldnt for the sake of it top anything off.

 

[Jake_J]

No, you want to completely evacuate and recharge to a known proper amount. You can't do that with the A/C Pro garbage.

I've used A/C Pro and it's worked well but you need to know what you're doing. The tiny bit air you introduce into the system is not a problem, you need to be certain it's actually low on charge and stop adding once it's blowing cold around 40F. A/C Pro is just R-134a in a more convient form so it's not garbage.

 

[Jake_J]

Because the patent ran out on it. Gotta switch to newer, much more expensive stuff every single time.

R-134a was adopted because it solved the problem of R12 eating a hole in the ozone layer, however R-134a is still bad for the enviroment because of it's very high global warming potential (which is about 1,400 times worse than CO2). In the early 00's automakers knew that R-134a was an imperfect solution and would eventually need to be replaced by something better. It's still in the early days of R-1234yf and the aftermarket isn't really there yet which explains the crazy prices it commands.

 

[Fabulous50s]

I know of several 30+ year old cars still blowing cold air on R12.

Refrigerant slowly passing through rubber hoses us a real thing, however there are exceptions which defy all logic.

1234yf is not the best Refrigerant, just like 410a isn't either, higher operating pressures etc.

If you think the condenser is leaking, adding a couple OZ won't last long. I'd be more apt to wash the condenser with solvent and see if it isn't rust road grime.

 

[BrandonV]

Now you’re changing the situation to cover your answer. Recovering the refrigerant absolutely was the topic. If the OP wants an accurate charge in his system, then recover and refill by weight was the professional recommendation.

You said recovery equipment wasn’t worth it because of the cost of refrigerant.

That means we are talking about a system that has refrigerant.

Which, under Federal Law, needs to be recovered, regardless of cost. If you had an actual EPA 609 license to buy refrigerant, and to work on auto AC systems, you would already know that.

You already stated that recovery wasn’t worth it.

Recovery is worth it, DIY or Professional, to avoid committing the crime.

Dumping refrigerant into the atmosphere is like dumping used oil into a nearby stream. No matter how much you want to rationalize it, or explain it away, you’re committing a criminal act.

Yup. Refrigerant should always be recaptured. Interestingly HFO-1234yf has a GWP lower than 1 which puts it below carbon dioxide. I wonder if they'll ever change the rules on recovery.

 

[ssaaff]

My local mechanic had this device that would replace old refrigerant and oil for 30$.
Definitely worth it

 

[nthach]

No, you want to completely evacuate and recharge to a known proper amount. You can't do that with the A/C Pro garbage.

Not to mention AC Pro will trash a shop’s recovery machine and the polymeric stop leak in it will react to even the smallest trace of moisture and gunk up your system. AC Pro is only for cars that will go to the junkyard.

Only thing that belongs in the AC loop is refrigerant and the specified oil. That’s it. Before blindly adding refrigerant, check your pressures and temps.

 

[nthach]

Because the patent ran out on it. Gotta switch to newer, much more expensive stuff every single time.

Chemours, Honeywell, Ineos and Arkema are still making R-134a and other HFCs. While banned by the EU for mobile HVAC, the EPA hasn’t banned it… yet. And there’s still billions of HVAC/refrigeration systems using R-134a. The Chinese will flood the market eventually when the US/British/French no longer make it. Oddly enough, Eneos nor Arkema are making the HFO class. Honeywell and Chemours are and the sole global source is Texas and Louisiana.

Mercedes and Toyota wanted the industry to go towards CO2, R-744. Their reasoning - lots of CO2 that can be fractionally distilled from the air and it’s cheap. But the industry went towards R-1234yf.

 

[kschachn]

I blindly have added refrigerant to vehicles for a very long time and topped off systems. But not R-1234yf.
I have with gauges topped off my two HVAC systems for my home somewhere between 3 and 4 ton units each, well actually only one needed it, though at my home I used gauges. This was after a few years of incompetent AC mechanics checking my system and scratching their heads, as much as to suggest a new system, been working perfect for maybe 5 years now.

What else do you need besides a gauge? A gauge is pretty useless without this other piece of equipment. Two pieces actually.