Are 10mm and .40 the same cartridge??? (ducking quickly)
10mm = 0.39370078740157477
.40 = 10.16mm
10mm = 0.39370078740157477
.40 = 10.16mm
Neophyte question 10mm/.40
- Thread starter Pablo
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Shell casing is longer in the 10mm IIRC.
Well, you know the 22 long rifle and the 223 are also the same bore diameter...... The 40 has been known in the past as the Feeb 40 because the FBI decided that the 10 mm was too hard to handle for their agents. The S&W 40 is more tame, it is basically a 9mm Para case that has no taper so a larger bullet fits in it. The 10 mm works fine in a glock 20 but tends to tear anthing else up.
So are you saying you could fire a .40 cart. in a 10mm?
Check out the "difference" here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_mm_Auto
Just have to trust the source.
Good read on .40 here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_S&W
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_mm_Auto
Just have to trust the source.
Good read on .40 here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.40_S&W
wantin - good read from wiki!
Quote:
Are 10mm and .40 the same cartridge??? (ducking quickly)
10mm = 0.39370078740157477
.40 = 10.16mm
They use the same bullets. The casing are different lengths which is obvious by now.
"The S&W 40 is more tame, it is basically a 9mm Para case that has no taper so a larger bullet fits in it."
Interesting since the bases of the casings are different diameters and .40 slides can be used for 9mm (with conversion barrels), but not the other way around.
"So are you saying you could fire a .40 cart. in a 10mm?"
If the round was held tightly to the breach face by the extractor...yes. However, it probably would not cycle the gun due to lack of energy and head space. Special magazines/barrels/springs can convert some guns back and forth, mostly 1911 type.
"Just have to trust the source."
It reads good to me.
The botton line (frankly) is that a 10mm is not a good choice for a neophyte. I'm not being negative here, the best thing for a new shooter is to shoot a lighter recoiling round a lot, like thousands of times.
yes, that's right. You may be well off with a 9mm since there are cheap practice ammo and it is not difficult to manage. There are discussions on "stopping power" but I think its a bit theoretical. 9mm works fine and you can have it in a smaller package. .45 in a 1911 is also proven beyond doubt but is is a larger piece. A .45 in a small frame is tough.
What matters is that you feel comfortable and have practiced so much that you don't have to think when using it, no matter if it's in competition or in a protection situation(try to avoid the last one)
And seriously, pull the bullet and look at them: Theres a very small difference between 9 and 10 mm. If you want power beyond 9, 10, 40, 45, you really need to look at rifles or shotguns. And for home protection you cant beat the shotgun: It is safer for you and family, more intimidating for the bad guy, easier to handle in a stressful situation etc.
And with any dangerous equipment: Make sure that no unauthorized persons, kids, burglars, can get hold of it-that may cause tons of grief and limit freedom in the future.
What matters is that you feel comfortable and have practiced so much that you don't have to think when using it, no matter if it's in competition or in a protection situation(try to avoid the last one)
And seriously, pull the bullet and look at them: Theres a very small difference between 9 and 10 mm. If you want power beyond 9, 10, 40, 45, you really need to look at rifles or shotguns. And for home protection you cant beat the shotgun: It is safer for you and family, more intimidating for the bad guy, easier to handle in a stressful situation etc.
And with any dangerous equipment: Make sure that no unauthorized persons, kids, burglars, can get hold of it-that may cause tons of grief and limit freedom in the future.
Thanks guys. I am well aware that a 10mm is not a gun for a newbie. I was looking for the differences in cartridges with a .40.
i've got a 10mm Glock and i love it. after shooting it the 9mm Glock feels like a BB gun. if you do get a 10mm go to www.doubletapammo.com and stock up. they make awesome full power loads.
think of a 10mm as a .40 magnum. they are not directly interchangeable because of the mechanical workings of the semi-auto pistol. .38 and .357 are interchangeable because revolvers are so danged simple and don't need recoil to function.
You can shoot 40 smith out of a 10mm revolver for that very reason. Smith and Wesson makes a nice 10mm revolver.
They are the same size bllet but the 10 mm has a considerable recoil-much more than a .40. Plus the ammunition is probably harder to get and more expensive.
If I were you I would stick to the .40 cal. After you do a lot of shooting you really (or at least I cannot) can't tell the difference in recoil between a 9 mm or a .40 cal. In fact the recoil of a normal size .45 seems about the same as a .40 cal to me. The .357 does have a somewhat more intense recoil but really not bad, unless you try to shoot some sort of silly lightweight .357.
Probably the worse recoil from a handgun I ever experienced in my life was from a tiny, very lightweight 5 shot .38 Special. It kicked so hard you just about had to aim at the ground to hit the target. The woman who owned the gun was probably using standard or even high power .s8 Special rounds in it. She was trying to sell the gun. I did not buy it.
I have shot 2 .44 magnums. One was loaded with 250 grain rounds travelling at about 1500 fps and the other was loaded with light .44 magnum rounds. Neither was really all that bad to shoot, but I don't like magnums very much because there is too much muzzle flash in the dark and they are too loud.
I much prefer 9 mm, .40 cal, .38 Special (regular size gun), and .45 handguns. A person really would have a hard time finding a better handgun than a .40 cal or a .45; maybe SIG or Glock.
If I were you I would stick to the .40 cal. After you do a lot of shooting you really (or at least I cannot) can't tell the difference in recoil between a 9 mm or a .40 cal. In fact the recoil of a normal size .45 seems about the same as a .40 cal to me. The .357 does have a somewhat more intense recoil but really not bad, unless you try to shoot some sort of silly lightweight .357.
Probably the worse recoil from a handgun I ever experienced in my life was from a tiny, very lightweight 5 shot .38 Special. It kicked so hard you just about had to aim at the ground to hit the target. The woman who owned the gun was probably using standard or even high power .s8 Special rounds in it. She was trying to sell the gun. I did not buy it.
I have shot 2 .44 magnums. One was loaded with 250 grain rounds travelling at about 1500 fps and the other was loaded with light .44 magnum rounds. Neither was really all that bad to shoot, but I don't like magnums very much because there is too much muzzle flash in the dark and they are too loud.
I much prefer 9 mm, .40 cal, .38 Special (regular size gun), and .45 handguns. A person really would have a hard time finding a better handgun than a .40 cal or a .45; maybe SIG or Glock.
Strangely enough I tried this and it did work as I fired some 40 Smith rounds in my 1086 and it fired every one in the magazine. I don't know the wisdom of this and whether it can damage my 10mm pistol. I am not worried about pressure since the 10mm operates at much higher chamber pressures and velocities somewhat duplicating .357 magnum internal ballistics as far as bullet weights and velocities attained. I was really disappointed when the 40S&W came out because the only advantage to it is it will fit in a 9mm sized gun frame, other than that it is less powerful and limited in bullet sizes it can effectively launch unless you go outside the safety parameters of the cartridge. The 40 smith case is shorter than the 10mm and it uses a small pistol primer instead of a large pistol primer. I suspect this is because of needing only to ignite smaller quantities of less powerful powders in the casing as a large pistol primer can ignite up to about 30 grains of powder in cartridges like the 44 magnum and you cannot fit anywhere near that in a 40 smith case.
Pablo,
just checked my "Cartridges of the World" (great book).
Bullet dia. Neck dia. Base dia. Rim dia. and Rim thickness are the same.
Case length for the 0.40 is 0.850"
Case length for the 10mm is 0.99"
OAL for the 0.40 is 1.135"
OAL for the 10mm is 1.26"
Barnes states that the 10mm was adopted by the FBI in the late 80s. S&W and Winchester realised that the same performance could be achieved with a shorter OAL, and developed the .40S&W.
They list the standard FBI load (10mm) as a 180gr JHP at 950fps, another 180gr JHP factory load at 1030.
For the 40S&W, they show two 180gr JHP at 990, and 1015fps
just checked my "Cartridges of the World" (great book).
Bullet dia. Neck dia. Base dia. Rim dia. and Rim thickness are the same.
Case length for the 0.40 is 0.850"
Case length for the 10mm is 0.99"
OAL for the 0.40 is 1.135"
OAL for the 10mm is 1.26"
Barnes states that the 10mm was adopted by the FBI in the late 80s. S&W and Winchester realised that the same performance could be achieved with a shorter OAL, and developed the .40S&W.
They list the standard FBI load (10mm) as a 180gr JHP at 950fps, another 180gr JHP factory load at 1030.
For the 40S&W, they show two 180gr JHP at 990, and 1015fps
There is no way you can say the 40 S&W has the same performance as the 10 MM. Referencing my Accurate Smokeless powder Loading Guide the Best the 40 can do with a 180 Grain JHP is 994(a max load) whereas the same bullet loaded in the 10MM velocity is 1290fps muzzle, I would not consider that "the same" performance and that load out of small 9mm sized frames would not be a pleasant experience and in practice would cause departments to seek more "pleasant" loads to shoot.
Hey, only repeating what I read in Cartridges of the World, a historical perspective on different cartridges.
Checked a reloading manual (Nick Harvey's) 180grn projectiles. .40 has a 4" barrel, 10mm has a 5" barrel... 25% more...a significant difference. Probably 50-80 fps in this case.
The .40 can do up to 1050fps from a 4" barrel on on 7.6 gr of 800-X powder. The 10mm 1200fps on 10.5gr blue dot.
On Bullseye, there's 50fps difference...barrel length.
On HS-6, it's 1000 ve 1050 fps.
accounting for barrel length, they are very close...closer than the range between a starting load and max load for each cartridge.
Yes 10mm is faster, but let's say by 5%...pretty "similar"
Checked a reloading manual (Nick Harvey's) 180grn projectiles. .40 has a 4" barrel, 10mm has a 5" barrel... 25% more...a significant difference. Probably 50-80 fps in this case.
The .40 can do up to 1050fps from a 4" barrel on on 7.6 gr of 800-X powder. The 10mm 1200fps on 10.5gr blue dot.
On Bullseye, there's 50fps difference...barrel length.
On HS-6, it's 1000 ve 1050 fps.
accounting for barrel length, they are very close...closer than the range between a starting load and max load for each cartridge.
Yes 10mm is faster, but let's say by 5%...pretty "similar"
Loads for 10mm in manuals are typically very conservative.
If you go to the DoubleTap ammo site, one can see that there is ~200FPS difference between the two. I like to use this site because they make truly max loads, and have access to powders that are not available to the public.
And the FBI 10mm round was "dumbed down" because the orginianl loads (.41 Mag level) were to much for the typical FBI agent, and also hard on guns.
If you go to the DoubleTap ammo site, one can see that there is ~200FPS difference between the two. I like to use this site because they make truly max loads, and have access to powders that are not available to the public.
And the FBI 10mm round was "dumbed down" because the orginianl loads (.41 Mag level) were to much for the typical FBI agent, and also hard on guns.
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