Need thick-sided 5w30 recommendations

[Silverado12]

FWIW I've had good service with NAPA brand (Valvoline) 5w30 full synthetic. It works well (as in no consumption issues) in all my Fords (3 Mustang GTs) and my Silverado 6 cylinder and has the Dexos approval. It goes on sale about twice a year for around 20 bucks for a 5 quart jug. Good value and good oil.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Gokhan
This is a GDI engine. Therefore, stay away from any Euro oil, including Pennzoil Platinum Euro. No Euro oil currently has LSPI protection. In fact, Euro oils are the worst when it comes to LSPI induction since LSPI is caused by high calcium and virtually all Euro oils have high calcium.
Wrong. Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 Formula has only about 1000ppm of calcium. Euro L 5w30 is not that bad either, at about 1600. Euro L 0w30 has only around 1400ppm.

I doubt any all-calcium oil would pass the LSPI test, especially the 1600 ppm one. I think you may need magnesium to suppress LSPI in addition to low calcium. There is a reason why none of these oils are SN PLUS.

 

[4wd]

This is the anti LSPI M1 lineup … but if you are chasing a higher HTHS in a 30 … we'll, you know the 1000 in ESP might be ALARP
Having said that the 10w30 HM is higher HTHS

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Gokhan
This is a GDI engine. Therefore, stay away from any Euro oil, including Pennzoil Platinum Euro. No Euro oil currently has LSPI protection. In fact, Euro oils are the worst when it comes to LSPI induction since LSPI is caused by high calcium and virtually all Euro oils have high calcium.
Wrong. Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 Formula has only about 1000ppm of calcium. Euro L 5w30 is not that bad either, at about 1600. Euro L 0w30 has only around 1400ppm.

I doubt any all-calcium oil would pass the LSPI test, especially the 1600 ppm one. I think you may need magnesium to suppress LSPI in addition to low calcium. There is a reason why none of these oils are SN PLUS.


GM doesn't seem to think it's a problem in the Corvette (which is DI) as it's factory fill is the dexos2 Mobil 1 ESP Formula 0w40, and a recent UOA on here showed it has about 1600ppm of calcium combined with a low amount of magnesium of around 100.

 

[4wd]

So Vette engine cross pollination with a 1.4L Cruze or not ?

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Gokhan
This is a GDI engine. Therefore, stay away from any Euro oil, including Pennzoil Platinum Euro. No Euro oil currently has LSPI protection. In fact, Euro oils are the worst when it comes to LSPI induction since LSPI is caused by high calcium and virtually all Euro oils have high calcium.
Wrong. Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 Formula has only about 1000ppm of calcium. Euro L 5w30 is not that bad either, at about 1600. Euro L 0w30 has only around 1400ppm.

I doubt any all-calcium oil would pass the LSPI test, especially the 1600 ppm one. I think you may need magnesium to suppress LSPI in addition to low calcium. There is a reason why none of these oils are SN PLUS.

I believe both of those 5W30s are dexos2, which also includes an LSPI test. Not sure about the 0W30. My memory is that magnesium was LSPI neutral...sodium was a major accelerant in the presence of calcium while ZDDP helped mitigate LSPI.

 

[Jimmy_Russells]

Originally Posted by dlundblad
Originally Posted by Jimmy_Russells
There are literal millions of cars rolling around Europe with gasoline engines and low saps "diesel" oil, why is this a bad thing again?


Different levels of sulfur in fuel than what's in the US?


Except that's not true anymore. Sulfur levels were lowered Jan ‘17 and then lowered again this month. They now average about 2ppm higher than central Europe.

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Gokhan
This is a GDI engine. Therefore, stay away from any Euro oil, including Pennzoil Platinum Euro. No Euro oil currently has LSPI protection. In fact, Euro oils are the worst when it comes to LSPI induction since LSPI is caused by high calcium and virtually all Euro oils have high calcium.
Wrong. Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 Formula has only about 1000ppm of calcium. Euro L 5w30 is not that bad either, at about 1600. Euro L 0w30 has only around 1400ppm.

I doubt any all-calcium oil would pass the LSPI test, especially the 1600 ppm one. I think you may need magnesium to suppress LSPI in addition to low calcium. There is a reason why none of these oils are SN PLUS.

I believe both of those 5W30s are dexos2, which also includes an LSPI test. Not sure about the 0W30. My memory is that magnesium was LSPI neutral...sodium was a major accelerant in the presence of calcium while ZDDP helped mitigate LSPI.



Dexos2 is NOT LSPI compliant. Gen2 will be.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by Brigadier

Dexos2 is NOT LSPI compliant. Gen2 will be.

I started a thread on this topic some time ago...both dexos1 Gen 2 and dexos2 include LSPI mitigation tests.

https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/fli-article/the-new-gm-dexos2-its-complicated/

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Again forget about the KV100. The new Valvoline ADVANCED is a great oil. I was worried about HTHS and kV100 since the Nissan 2.5 can be noisy. I ran 10w30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability in the summer and Fall. I previously liked Magnatec untill they changed to formula from their initial semi-syn release and was immediately disappointed with the full syn.

But a good oil ( and high flow filter) will address most all engine woes.

Now its 5w30 Valvoline Advanced. It's ARCO tested and ARCO approved in a difficult engine.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
This is a GDI engine. Therefore, stay away from any Euro oil, including Pennzoil Platinum Euro. No Euro oil currently has LSPI protection. In fact, Euro oils are the worst when it comes to LSPI induction since LSPI is caused by high calcium and virtually all Euro oils have high calcium.

ACEA admits that they have failed to include LSPI protection and they are currently working hard on it to catch up with ILSAC.

https://www.infineuminsight.com/articles/specification-updates/acea-sequences-revisions-underway/

If you want thick oil with LSPI protection, there is Chevron Delo XSP 5w30 and 5W-40:

https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=493724&docFormat=PDF
https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=493727&docFormat=PDF


I guess they don't use GDI in Europe.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Bullwinkle007
Kendall euro 5w30 at 100c is 12.2. Full saps LL01 approved

I do not believe Kendall Euro GT-1 5w30 is Longlife-01 approved despite the official sounding statement:
Quote
GT-1 Full Synthetic Euro Motor Oil is fully approved for service fill under the following OEM specifications:

The form of the wording on the MB approval statement is not correct and it doesn't show up on the official list, neither do the VW approvals. Therefore I'd take the Kendall statement to be weasel-wording for all of them. I take that statement to mean it is approved by Kendall, not the automobile manufacturer.

In fact, it looks like the PDS now only recommends it for LL-04.

 

[wemay]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
This is a GDI engine. Therefore, stay away from any Euro oil, including Pennzoil Platinum Euro. No Euro oil currently has LSPI protection. In fact, Euro oils are the worst when it comes to LSPI induction since LSPI is caused by high calcium and virtually all Euro oils have high calcium.

ACEA admits that they have failed to include LSPI protection and they are currently working hard on it to catch up with ILSAC.

https://www.infineuminsight.com/articles/specification-updates/acea-sequences-revisions-underway/

If you want thick oil with LSPI protection, there is Chevron Delo XSP 5w30 and 5W-40:

https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=493724&docFormat=PDF
https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=493727&docFormat=PDF


Virtus_Probi covered this in a previous thread...

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4711287/dexos2_includes_an_LSPI_test??

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by Brigadier

Dexos2 is NOT LSPI compliant. Gen2 will be.

I started a thread on this topic some time ago...both dexos1 Gen 2 and dexos2 include LSPI mitigation tests.

https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/fli-article/the-new-gm-dexos2-its-complicated/


Read very, very carefully:

Notice it says "lubricants for GM's NEW dexos2 specification, which covers diesel engines, WILL HAVE TO pass an LSPI test..."

"Fortunately for lubricant formulators, the dexos2 specification is set so that there will be new viscosity classes. The old viscosity grades will remain for backward compatibility and will not need, for instance, to demonstrate
LSPI performance. The new viscosity grades, such as SAE xW-20, will have to meet LSPI and other requirements."

And there are no 20 weights listed here: https://www.gmdexos.com/owner/brands/dexos2/index.html

^^ So it seems a dexos2 Gen2 is on it's way....

"Elswhere in the world, GM requires dexos1 for gasoline engines and dexos2 for diesel engines."

^^ dexos2 Gen1 is already in play. Given there is no date on this article, the time reference is impossible to tell.

"For the NEW dexos2 specification, due out this year...."

d2G2....this is the one with the LSPI test.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by Brigadier
Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
Originally Posted by Brigadier

Dexos2 is NOT LSPI compliant. Gen2 will be.

I started a thread on this topic some time ago...both dexos1 Gen 2 and dexos2 include LSPI mitigation tests.
https://www.fuelsandlubes.com/fli-article/the-new-gm-dexos2-its-complicated/

Read very, very carefully:
Notice it says "lubricants for GM's NEW dexos2 specification, which covers diesel engines, WILL HAVE TO pass an LSPI test..."
"Fortunately for lubricant formulators, the dexos2 specification is set so that there will be new viscosity classes. The old viscosity grades will remain for backward compatibility and will not need, for instance, to demonstrate
LSPI performance. The new viscosity grades, such as SAE xW-20, will have to meet LSPI and other requirements."
And there are no 20 weights listed here: https://www.gmdexos.com/owner/brands/dexos2/index.html
^^ So it seems a dexos2 Gen2 is on it's way....
"Elswhere in the world, GM requires dexos1 for gasoline engines and dexos2 for diesel engines."
^^ dexos2 Gen1 is already in play. Given there is no date on this article, the time reference is impossible to tell.
"For the NEW dexos2 specification, due out this year...."
d2G2....this is the one with the LSPI test.

Well, I posted about this in March 2018 and the article references a conference that occurred in April in the past tense, so I think it must be from 2017.
The whole thing is pretty darned confusing (it mentions a first generation dexos2 launching in 2000, surely not possible as dexos1 oils did not show up in GM vehicles until MY2011), but I have to agree that a careful read indicates that dexos2 is NOT a guarantee of an oil passing an LSPI test. The whole thing about older grades not needing to pass LSPI testing whenever the "new" standard is out is truly disconcerting!
My apologies to everybody for spreading misinformation!
Thanks to Brigadier for calling me out on this, I didn't read the article critically enough to truthfully say what I have been spreading on here about dexos2 and LSPI.
I have yet to see the term dexos2 Gen 2, though, and we were hearing about dexos1 Gen 2 for years before the oils showed up on the shelves.

 

[ChrisD46]

Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Gokhan
Originally Posted by Patman
Originally Posted by Gokhan
This is a GDI engine. Therefore, stay away from any Euro oil, including Pennzoil Platinum Euro. No Euro oil currently has LSPI protection. In fact, Euro oils are the worst when it comes to LSPI induction since LSPI is caused by high calcium and virtually all Euro oils have high calcium.
Wrong. Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 Formula has only about 1000ppm of calcium. Euro L 5w30 is not that bad either, at about 1600. Euro L 0w30 has only around 1400ppm.

I doubt any all-calcium oil would pass the LSPI test, especially the 1600 ppm one. I think you may need magnesium to suppress LSPI in addition to low calcium. There is a reason why none of these oils are SN PLUS.


GM doesn't seem to think it's a problem in the Corvette (which is DI) as it's factory fill is the dexos2 Mobil 1 ESP Formula 0w40, and a recent UOA on here showed it has about 1600ppm of calcium combined with a low amount of magnesium of around 100.

*If you have a turbo GDI anything I would be concerned about LSPI , If a non - turbo GDI engine then Pennzoil Euro L and Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 would be fine along with Quaker State synthetic 5W30 ... About as good as it gets for your request .

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi
My apologies to everybody for spreading misinformation!

No worries, let's make the record straight:

dexos2 does not have an LSPI test. It never has had. It's still the decade-old original specification.

I'm guessing we'll see a dexos2 Gen 2 next year or so.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by Gokhan
This is a GDI engine. Therefore, stay away from any Euro oil, including Pennzoil Platinum Euro. No Euro oil currently has LSPI protection. In fact, Euro oils are the worst when it comes to LSPI induction since LSPI is caused by high calcium and virtually all Euro oils have high calcium.

ACEA admits that they have failed to include LSPI protection and they are currently working hard on it to catch up with ILSAC.

https://www.infineuminsight.com/articles/specification-updates/acea-sequences-revisions-underway/

If you want thick oil with LSPI protection, there is Chevron Delo XSP 5w30 and 5W-40:

https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=493724&docFormat=PDF
https://cglapps.chevron.com/sdspds/PDSDetailPage.aspx?docDataId=493727&docFormat=PDF
I guess they don't use GDI in Europe.

LSPI in TGDI engines is something which has been a concern recently. They also only recently identified the cause, which is all-calcium oils. I'm sure some European models also experience it. Some models experience it more severely than others. As the article I linked states, ACEA is also working on it and will catch up with API/ILSAC on detergent technology and LSPI.

 

[Brigadier]

Originally Posted by Virtus_Probi

Well, I posted about this in March 2018 and the article references a conference that occurred in April in the past tense, so I think it must be from 2017.
The whole thing is pretty darned confusing (it mentions a first generation dexos2 launching in 2000, surely not possible as dexos1 oils did not show up in GM vehicles until MY2011), but I have to agree that a careful read indicates that dexos2 is NOT a guarantee of an oil passing an LSPI test. The whole thing about older grades not needing to pass LSPI testing whenever the "new" standard is out is truly disconcerting!
My apologies to everybody for spreading misinformation!
Thanks to Brigadier for calling me out on this, I didn't read the article critically enough to truthfully say what I have been spreading on here about dexos2 and LSPI.
I have yet to see the term dexos2 Gen 2, though, and we were hearing about dexos1 Gen 2 for years before the oils showed up on the shelves.


No worries. I was in the same boat when I first read the article, but I went back and read it more carefully, and got thoroughly confused about dexos2 and LSPI. About the 4th read thru and I noticed the subtle language used.

I wish dexos 2 oils WERE LSPI tested. I would love to use them in my GDI Santa Fe.

 

[Gokhan]

I found a more official news source. It looks like the dexos2 Gen 2 update has been delayed but it's imminent:

Other North American Specifications

General Motors' dexosâ„¢

With the update to GM's second-generation dexos1â„¢:2015 specification almost complete, there has been little further activity. As GM approves the new oils they are becoming more widely available. However, as dexos1â„¢:2015 and ILSAC GF-6 sit on different timelines, additive companies and oil marketers must make careful investment decisions.

PSA's merger with Opel means a level of uncertainty has arisen about the timing for second-generation dexos 2â„¢. Q3 2017 looks likely to be the earliest date that the specification will be finalised and GM says the oil is likely to be available in the US sometime in 2018.

https://www.infineuminsight.com/art...american-specification-update-sept-2017/