Need some help from some plumbers regarding toilet

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blue_goose

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Ok let me give a short run down, father in law replaced my bathroom floor with Pergo a week or so ago...when we go to put the toilet back what do we see but this:

IMAG0950.jpg


Look at that flange! Those slots that are 12 and 6 should be more at 1 and 7 or 2 and 8 in order for the bolts to be able to be seated correctly no??

I am in a townhouse that was built in the 80's and finding all sorts of stuff that was really done on the cheap and not much attention to detail...So the builders just screwed it in any haphazard way and when toilet was attached it had to be put on with the bolt heads just BARELY hanging on.


If I try to put the toilet back on now it is well..lets just say it is at a severe angle so that the bolts have enough seating in the flange in order to grab on......if I try to put the bolts right near the edge so it is not TOO crooked the keep slipping out and popping up so not getting it to lock down


So to my question...about 6 inches down the hole the is a seam where it looks like the flange (yes it is all one piece from top where the bolts go to about 6- 8 inches down.

Should a plumber with the right tools be able to replace this piece and put a new flange in that is oriented correctly?? I undid the 4 phillips head screws that go into the subfloor but I could not budge it
frown.gif


So I'm hoping a someone here either a plumber or a good handyman would know if this is a fixable issue?


Also last but not least, I emptied the toilet of water because of the attempts I was making putting it on...it is going to sit until next Monday when I can get someone to look at it (about 5 or 6 days) Should I be worried about sewer gas? We had the toilet off for about 3 or 4 days when we put the floor in and did not detect any sewer smells

Ok ramble off..hope I can get some help here!

Sincerely

A Pretty frustrated goose

Goose
 
Large diameter wood screws, is what I'd use through the toilet holes, if the sub floor has some strength. Similar to the ones you took off the flange. I guess even something like a lag bolt even into 3/4 chip board will plenty strong.
Predrill a hole at the right size and it should hold for alot of side force on the seat.
IME for ABS pipe you will never ever get the flange seperated without cutting the pipe. That looks like PVC but I imagine its similar.
 
Yes, I think you are right about the hole alignment. But, it worked in the past, correct.

I would look for an easier solution before I paid someone to glue in a new flange (a diy project if you have easy access below the floor).

First, consider a large washer on the bolt. You may have to grind part of it off on the "outside" flange area. It will then grab a bigger part of the flange.

Next, consider one of the MANY styles of metal repair flanges that simply screw over the old flange.

http://www.quickfixplumbingproducts.com/ A big box store might have this, but a good plumbing supply will have lots of diy repair options without replacing the entire flange.

9c92_1.jpeg
 
Just went through this exact issue with my bathroom after the wife put tile down. My flange was not attached to the pipe underneath at all. Try pulling all its screws, you might be pleasantly suprised that you can rotate it.

Also get the extra thick wax ring, it covers a multitude of sins.
 
I am not a plumber, but I replaced a few toilets in my lifetime. Use the repair flange as pictured above. I used one to fix a broken flange. Lowes' and HD carries them.
Since you have laminate floor, you will benefit from a taller flange anyway.

Make sure to use a re-enforced wax ring, not a plain wax ring. Difference in price is minimal, but it will save you a lot of grief.

I always run a bead of silicone between the outside of the bowl and floor. Makes it look finished and prevents water from pooling under the toilet when you mop the floor.


PS looks you already have a repair flange (right side of your photo) It does not have "ears", so put in the correct position and pre-drill the PVC.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Just went through this exact issue with my bathroom after the wife put tile down. My flange was not attached to the pipe underneath at all. Try pulling all its screws, you might be pleasantly suprised that you can rotate it.

Also get the extra thick wax ring, it covers a multitude of sins.


Some rings can be rotated. OP has a cheap one-piece PVC flange where ring is molded with the rest of the flange.

It needs to be set properly when glued.
 
I've also found that better quality commodes will have a longer horn cast into the porcelain that extends down into the waste stack better. Longer horn = less chance of leakage. My upstairs bathroom has a cheaper toilet with a shorty horn. It's a pain to get it leak free.

Joel
 
If you have a sawzall you can cut 3 or 4 lines in the existing flange with out going through the pipe below, stuff a rag in the pipe chisel out the old flange and replace w/ new flange takes 15-20 mins. Don't silicone a water closet to the floor as you will not be able to remove it w/ out taking your laminate floor w/ the water closet, or breaking the porcelain water closet when you have to remove it. Water closets should always be grouted underneath, grout will from a water seal and provides support for the water closet. plus w/ grout you will be able to remove the water closet it the future w/ out breaking it.
 
Sounds like a great idea, but I've never seen a toiled grouted to the floor. It would slide around on the laminate floor's surface anyway I'd think?
 
Its actually the slotted holes at 9 and 3 which carry the T-head screws that hold the terlet down. I like to see the middle of the narrow part of the slot right at 9 and 3, (which would put the fat part of the slot at about 10 and 4) but yours looks like it should work OK to me.
 
It looks like the T-bolts will grab enough of the slot to tighten down. I agree it's a little askew, but it looks like it would work. As others have said, it worked before, right?

Make sure you use a spacer flange to bring it a little higher, you do not want leakage with a laminate floor, trust me. And use a thicker wax ring with a built in flange. Put the wax ring on the horn of the toilet, not in the flange. Seal around the toilet with tub and tile caulk, not grout.
 
I prefer not to caulk around the base of a toilet, with the idea that if the wax ring does leak, I want to see it leak out under the toilet and I can fix it. Is there something wrong with this logic?
 
Looks like you need a "jumbo" wax ring with metal reinforcements. Spend the 4 bucks instead of 99 cents here. Also you need a new repair flange. When you have the toilet out, is a great time to replace any internals on the toilet if they are "iffy". I usually do the rubber washers, and upgrade to a fill valve if you still have a float valve. You can upgrade a whole toilet for less than 10-15 bucks.
 
Pergo in bathroom = very bad idea. I had it in a kitchen. Looked nice not a good idea. Dish washer leaked major mess.Fixed it. Sink leaked another major mess. After 10 years had the kitchen tiled.
 
It did work in the past and how it did I have no idea...the guy who originally replaced the toilet must have had a rabbits foot in his pocket to be able to get the bolt head to grab enough to hold....my FIL put it on last week but looking down at it the toilet was pointing to a persons right foot a bit.....well more than a bit...you could tell it just wasn't right...so we left it and it work for awhile until one side popped out last night...he has put in quite a few toilets and when he first looked at the flange he said "that ain't right"

Ursae, that is a Flange Repair ring that is designed to replace a metal ring that is corroded etc..I don't think it will help in this situation

It might be the camera angle but I swear it is almost impossible to get those bots to line up anywhere near the cent and not pop out....

Part of the issue seems that once I place the toilet over the bolts when I go to attach the nut the bolt spins and moves around a bit and when you have like zero room for error that is a problem.

Lots of varied answers here, thank you. So I guess being able to pull the old flange off at that seam that is about 4-6 inches down is a "pipe" dream? (no pun intended)

Like said, I'm trying to get the plumber out here next Monday to tackle this.......I gotta ask, should any plumber be able to come up with a solution here? Or am I totally out of luck without having to tear the whole floor up??
frown.gif



Goose
 
Nothing's wrong with it. I've seen it done both ways (with and w/o) the caulking. I prefer caulking. If toilet needs to be removed, silicone can be pre-cut.

You should be able to install that repair flange right over your existing one. Just pre-drill the PVC flange and screw it down.

If you have access from below, you can always cut off the pipe with the existing flange, install a coupler and glue a complete new flange in. It is not that big of a deal.

Use a reinforced wax ring with an extended throat, and you'll be all set.

You might be over-analyzing it.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
I prefer not to caulk around the base of a toilet, with the idea that if the wax ring does leak, I want to see it leak out under the toilet and I can fix it. Is there something wrong with this logic?


The proper way to do this is to seal around the front and sides of the toilet, leaving the back with no caulk so you can see a leak if it occurs. A toilet with no caulk looks unfinished, and can let a spill from the sink or tub under the toilet that can cause problems later. Plumbing 101
smile.gif
 
Thanks, hate2work....I will ponder that idea next toilet fix. But, I don't see what problems it would cause later. Maybe some mold or odors....yea, okay, odors from "bad" fluids leaking under there...gotcha.


While googling around looking at all the different repair kits, I stumbled on a site where they (pros) were arguing if the flange (new installs) is supposed to be sitting on top of the finished floor or flush with the finish floor. This one thread was talking about tiled floors and the pros said it is common to mount the flange on the sub floor, then tile flush up to it.

I was going to maybe recommend an extender kit to help with the OP's problem. I don't know what to think now.

2006-3-13_plumbing_089_w550.jpg


Also, here is a youtube video that might work for the OP:
 
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