need help - do i have ATF or CHF11s in my P/S?

[pjr710]

Ok guys. I went to change my PS this weekend and was expecting it to be CHF11s .. but i think it's ATF. I have a 2007 bmw 335i coupe. If you're not familiar i have a cap that has imprinted ATF and a sticker over it that says CHF11s. Everyone says to use CHF11s including stealership for my vin.

However when I siphoned out some fluid i put a light under it and you can see it's red .. so is this ATF? I never changed the PS fluid and i'm the second owner, i don't believe the first owner did either.

1. what does ATF smell like?
2. What should i do? replace with ATF?
3. If i replace with CHF11s ... am I risking anything?
4. If I did replace with CHF11s I was going to siphon out old fluid from reservoir, put new fluid in, disconnect my return line and put it in a catch can, then cycle the rack until new fluid came out the return line. are there any nooks and crannys that would retain the old fluid? Am i risking anything if some ATF mixed with chf11s? (assuming what i have now is atf) .. here's a video of how I'd change it except I'd keep my car off https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPUr2UY-h8c&t=190s

My car has 120k.

 

[maxdustington]

Pic #3 made me laugh.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

ATF smells like fish

You probably have ATF in there as I've never seen any brand of CHF or any of their knockoffs dyed red.

If you need the CHF 11S, you can also use CHF 202. It is a newer spec CHF, and it is also green. It also costs a bit less than 11S. Walmart and Amazon jacked up the price of their Prestone European Power Steering fluid that is compatible with CHF 11S, so it is no longer the good deal it once was.

The best deal on CHF 11S seems to be this Febi-Bilstein brand from Amazon

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Pic #3 made me laugh.

Volvo had a long-running mistake in their owners manuals in the early 2000s. The manual says the PS systems take ATF when in fact they had the CHF

 

[pjr710]

Yea pic #3 is insane.

It definitely smells foul ... is it safe to assume it's ATF?

I have a ton of CHF11s I bought because I was going to do the turkey baster method.

So if it is ATF .. and I replace it with CHF11s .. am I risking anything?

As mentioned I plan on using the method where i disconnect the return hose and cycle the new fluid through, then reconnect - I'd imagine this would get MOST of the old fluid out but not sure...

 

[LotI]

CHF11S is green so that's not what you have. It's an amazing fluid with a VI of 313 so it's worth the swap back.

 

[ChiTDI]

Why not do a complete flush?
Use the CHF and know you are good to go.

 

[kschachn]

Like was mentioned already, CHF11S does not smell like ATF and is greenish in color. I'd probably flush all of the existing fluid out and put in CHF11S or CHF202. I've used the Fuchs Titan equivalent and it seems... equivalent.

 

[pjr710]

Yea I would do the full flush .. just figuring out if the method i was going to do ... disconnecting the return hose ... would do a full flush

 

[kschachn]

Never mind, you already knew what I was going to say.

 

[Kira]

Just to chime in, get the red out and convert to the CHF11S or 202 ASAP.

My 2002 V70's PS pumps' moaning was one of the reasons the previous owner decided to sell. The system was full of red ATF.
I recall having gotten ~40,000 miles of trouble free driving after flushing.
Then, 50 miles into a highway trip the pump began to growl. It was a 1 minute crescendo to a conversation halting rumble.

The previous owner had his pals service the car so no telling what red stuff went in but the aforementioned Volvo owner's manual error was still in effect.
I even contacted Volvo but the error remained in print for years.

The junkyard replacement ($40, thank Heavens) was from a 2001 and dripped the pale green fluid when it was handed to me.

A dealership near me showed me their stash of Castrol ATF when I asked what they used in PS pumps.

 

[pjr710]

Originally Posted by Kira
Just to chime in, get the red out and convert to the CHF11S or 202 ASAP.

My 2002 V70's PS pumps' moaning was one of the reasons the previous owner decided to sell. The system was full of red ATF.
I recall having gotten ~40,000 miles of trouble free driving after flushing.
Then, 50 miles into a highway trip the pump began to growl. It was a 1 minute crescendo to a conversation halting rumble.

The previous owner had his pals service the car so no telling what red stuff went in but the aforementioned Volvo owner's manual error was still in effect.
I even contacted Volvo but the error remained in print for years.

The junkyard replacement ($40, thank Heavens) was from a 2001 and dripped the pale green fluid when it was handed to me.

A dealership near me showed me their stash of Castrol ATF when I asked what they used in PS pumps.


So you believe i have ATF in there now? I am going to believe I do ... if so what's confusing is that it would have been installed from the factory that way ... b/c I and the previous owner never changed the PS fluid.

Do you think switching from ATF to CHF could cause issues if the system is used to ATF?

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by pjr710
So you believe i have ATF in there now? I am going to believe I do ... if so what's confusing is that it would have been installed from the factory that way ... b/c I and the previous owner never changed the PS fluid.

Do you think switching from ATF to CHF could cause issues if the system is used to ATF?

Who knows what it has in it now. If it looks red (which it does to me) then it isn't CHF11S, that's not red. What it smells like is another clue.

Mechanical devices don't get "used" to anything. Their seals and other components in contact with the fluid are designed to be compatible with specific formulations, if you deviate from that it is uncertain what the outcome will be. My old E34 has that same green label on the reservoir lid as yours does but without peeling it off it doesn't appear to have the molded-in ATF designation underneath. BMW built both as far as I can tell and what the differences were between the two systems I have no idea. But in the absence of any other information I'd go with the cap requirement as shown. So if I suspected there was ATF in there and the cap said CHF11S, I'd flush out the existing fluid (whatever it was) and put in CHF11S. But maybe that's just me.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Go by the sticker. The cap is just a mass produced part. BMW wasn't going to spend $$ on a "CH SF11s" cap when the 5 cent sticker performs the same job.

I suspect there's a chance that Pentosin sells factory fluid with red dye so that the dealerships know whether or not it was changed by the owner.

 

[pjr710]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by pjr710
So you believe i have ATF in there now? I am going to believe I do ... if so what's confusing is that it would have been installed from the factory that way ... b/c I and the previous owner never changed the PS fluid.

Do you think switching from ATF to CHF could cause issues if the system is used to ATF?

Who knows what it has in it now. If it looks red (which it does to me) then it isn't CHF11S, that's not red. What it smells like is another clue.

Mechanical devices don't get "used" to anything. Their seals and other components in contact with the fluid are designed to be compatible with specific formulations, if you deviate from that it is uncertain what the outcome will be. My old E34 has that same green label on the reservoir lid as yours does but without peeling it off it doesn't appear to have the molded-in ATF designation underneath. BMW built both as far as I can tell and what the differences were between the two systems I have no idea. But in the absence of any other information I'd go with the cap requirement as shown. So if I suspected there was ATF in there and the cap said CHF11S, I'd flush out the existing fluid (whatever it was) and put in CHF11S. But maybe that's just me.


Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
Are you the original owner? If not, I suspect the previous owner paid for a PS service and the dealer had the techs flush with ATF to save money or that was all they had in stock at the time.

Go by the sticker. The cap is just a mass produced part. BMW wasn't going to spend $$ on a "CH SF11s" cap when the 5 cent sticker performs the same job.






I'm the second owner ... previous owner was legit and not cheap and to my knowledge never replace it .. neither did I which is why I assumed it came this way from factory.

I called the stealership they said if they did a flush they wouldn't care about what was in there now, they would just put in what the VIN calls for .. and my VIN calls for CHF11s.

So i guess I'm just going to do a full flush with CHF11s

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted by pjr710
So i guess I'm just going to do a full flush with CHF11s

I'd agree with that, to be on the safe side. I haven't seen any of the CHF11S equivalents being coloured red, so it's probably a fair assumption that something inappropriate is in there. My god daughter went through a similar mess with her Benz, where someone put ATF in there, and the original spec was that odd Texaco spec, fortunately back speced to CHF11S or equivalent. And her pump groans, too.