Need a Gun Recommendation

[LDB]

Agree…however this weapon may have been all that this lady could effectively shoot. The OP has concerns regarding his lady being able to shoot higher caliber weapons also. If the choice is being able to hit an intruder multiple times vs possibly missing with a weapon that is difficult to handle and recoils too hard I know which I’d chose.

"It's better to hit them with a fly swatter than miss them with a cannon." The thing is, there are good option between the two in most cases. The problem, often, is the refusal to accept the requirements of using those better choices, usually size and weight. The fixation focuses on small and light and easy to conceal and carry and everything else is pushed aside. Then you have the challenges being discussed. As I and others mentioned, the S&W 9EZ is a good option that is designed from the blank paper forward as easier to load the magazine, easier to rack the slide and easier to shoot recoil wise. They did a good job on all those fronts. But it fills the hand more and is a bit heavier and many reject it for those reasons. They also make the EZ in .380 but it is enough lighter the perceived recoil is probably equal to the 9 if not higher.

 

[Eddie]

I would take her to a shooting range where she can try different guns and decided with the assistance of someone OTHER THAN her husband/soul mate. JMO.. I like the idea of starting with a small caliber if she has never shott before. Ed

 

[PontiacHO]

"It's better to hit them with a fly swatter than miss them with a cannon." The thing is, there are good option between the two in most cases. The problem, often, is the refusal to accept the requirements of using those better choices, usually size and weight. The fixation focuses on small and light and easy to conceal and carry and everything else is pushed aside. Then you have the challenges being discussed. As I and others mentioned, the S&W 9EZ is a good option that is designed from the blank paper forward as easier to load the magazine, easier to rack the slide and easier to shoot recoil wise. They did a good job on all those fronts. But it fills the hand more and is a bit heavier and many reject it for those reasons. They also make the EZ in .380 but it is enough lighter the perceived recoil is probably equal to the 9 if not higher.

My son has a Sig .380 that fits nicely in a man’s pocket and would do the trick also. But like your saying the perception or fear of a higher caliber for some folks is definitely a determining factor in firearm selection. Back to your analogy of fly swatter.

 

[Astro14]

My son has an Sig .380 that fits nicely in a man’s pocket and would do the trick also. But like your saying the perception or fear of a higher caliber for some folks is definitely a determining factor in firearm selection. Back to your analogy of fly swatter.

The problem with mouse guns is that they’re hard to control. Small grips. No weight. Fierce recoil. They suck.

I’d rather shoot one of my .45 ACP guns, they’re easier to manage than the sub compact single stacks. Even the .45 Colt is more fun to shoot than those tiny .380 guns.

The Glock 42, for example, in .380, is no fun to shoot. A Glock 19 is a far easier gun to shoot because of size and mass. A poor choice for this shooter.

The Ruger LCP - easy to carry. Hard to shoot. Not a good choice for this shooter.

It isn’t just a matter of caliber, it’s a matter of recoil. The mass, and fit, of the firearm are every bit as important as caliber.

 

[PontiacHO]

I own a 1917 .32 SW Revolver. Might be as effective to throw it an intruder as shoot it. On the other hand that won’t be the weapon I’m going for if there is a home intruder. 12 gauge - 3 inch shells with 6 shot will knock them down….

 

[billt460]

The problem with mouse guns is that they’re hard to control. Small grips. No weight. Fierce recoil. They suck.

This ^^^^^^

I purchased both of these guns shown below, because they are both well made and machined from Stainless Steel. Both are of high quality, and are good examples of their parent guns.

But the fact is they are what they are. Nothing more than a novelty. Range toys that are fun to play with..... For a few rounds.

The Bauer .25 is an excellent copy of the Baby Browning .25 Automatic pocket pistol. The Bond Arms .45 Colt / .410 Derringer is also very well machined, fit , and finished.

The .25 must have a 30 pound trigger pull. And the Bond Arms Derringer kicks like a drunk mule with 3" .410 loads. I can't even imagine trying to change magazines in that little Bauer at night in a self defense situation. You end up fumbling around enough just trying to reinsert it at the kitchen table when you're done cleaning it.

Just cocking the hammer on the Bond Arms with large hands is a lesson in futility. With both guns "accuracy" diminishes to nothing at any distance beyond across a card table........

Yet I have seen both of these guns recommended for self defense purposes on various firearm threads at one time or another. Personally I can't think of 2 WORSE weapons to be saddled with, to get out of a dangerous situation.

That said, they both have a place in a gun collection...... Not in a waistband or pocket. Unless you want to end up dead.

 

[Al]

So, if several 9mm bullets didn’t stop the perp, why did you recommend something even less effective for self defense?

BC you can find cases where .22 bullets stopped a perp, or .380 stopped a perp. I will rely all day long on 13 hardball rounds stopping one. If you are uncomfortable with that..your choice.

The most likely is shooting from the hip at 4 yards one hand. I am OK with that or any other senario with my Max. Thats me.

 

[Astro14]

BC you can find cases where .22 bullets stopped a perp, or .380 stopped a perp. I will rely all day long on 13 hardball rounds stopping one. If you are uncomfortable with that..your choice.

The most likely is shooting from the hip at 4 yards one hand. I am OK with that or any other senario with my Max. Thats me.

My point was this: OP wants a carry weapon for his wife.

You recommended something much less effective, something that isn’t a weapon at all.

 

[Al]

Respectfully disagree. The LCP is not enjoyable to shoot and difficult to shoot well.

I have put many thousands of rounds down range with my old LCP. I found it comfortable to shoot. The Max, not so much. But I can empty a mag with it and in a gun fight, you won't feel a thing.

 

[Astro14]

I have put many thousands of rounds down range with my old LCP. I found it comfortable to shoot. The Max, not so much. But I can empty a mag with it and in a gun fight, you won't feel a thing.

Let’s go back to the original question, please, let’s stop talking about what works for you, and all your training.

What would be a good choice for the OP’s wife, and how he described her?

The LCP is a terrible choice, for her, even though you like yours.

It has worse recoil than the P365 that she tried and couldn’t handle.

I think my P365 is the ideal carry gun. The perfect balance of capacity, power, and size. But I didn’t recommend it for her, because it fails to meet the OP requirements.

 

[LDB]

One more time for the S&W 9 EZ to rent and try out.

 

[Al]

It (LCP) has worse recoil than the P365 that she tried and couldn’t handle.
Thats incorrect I own both. She could put the 15 round mag in. Gets you a totally full grip. If she can't handle a P365 she can't handle a 9mm of a carriable type.
She needes to be evaluated person by a qualified firearm instructor-period. Possibly the P365 .380
I think my P365 is the ideal carry gun. The perfect balance of capacity, power, and size. But I didn’t recommend it for her, because it fails to meet the OP requirements.

 

[Al]

My wife and I have a concealed carry permit. We rarely carry. I do when we go to our synagogue which is a few times a year. Here is the thing overlooked—element of surprise. Sometimes a criminal has it and good luck pulling a pistol out of a purse before he takes his crowbar and you end up in the ER. There is more to self defense than being proficient with firearms. My wife has a brown belt in Krav Maga. Look at it on YouTube if you never heard of it.

Exactly. The odds of a woman being able to defend herself by pulling a firearm out of her pocket book and defending herself is effectively zero. Not sure I with $4000+ of training could do it. making it accessible in a vehicle is dooable, defending herself in a bedroom behind a bed is dooable. Sending a woman out with a firearm in a pocketbook is a recipe for disaster in many times with a few exceptions.

I teach defensive firearms but with the exception of these "dooable" situations I would rather she take an NRA Seminar "Refuse to be a Victim" which I teach. I will though admit that a gun in a purse could work in slooow developing situation. But again Training. Most people would be ineffecive a large percentage of encounters without training.

 

[leadcounsel]

My wife and I have a concealed carry permit. We rarely carry. I do when we go to our synagogue which is a few times a year. Here is the thing overlooked—element of surprise.

It's good you have the permit but it does no good if you refuse to carry. The excuse of "element of surprise," is just that. Have better situational awareness. Also, I could show hundreds of videos where someone carrying a gun in an environment that was attacked, managed to draw surreptitiously or otherwise and save lives by defeating the attacker. You mention church. There's a famous example a few years ago where a murderer came in and shot someone, and a alert member of congregation drew his Sig P229 and made a safe headshot ending the attack. Just remember YOU might not be the direct victim, but in the area of a shooting and can save lives. It's not your obligation to save others, don't get me wrong, but it's good to have that option.

Sometimes a criminal has it and good luck pulling a pistol out of a purse before he takes his crowbar and you end up in the ER. There is more to self defense than being proficient with firearms. My wife has a brown belt in Krav Maga. Look at it on YouTube if you never heard of it.

I always encourage self defense training, I've had years in various martial arts styles (striking and judo type). No offense to any women, but a woman trained in Krav Maga is not going to stop a man with a pipe or a gun (a ranged weapon). Men are just inherently stronger for starters. Ever seen a woman defeat a man, in your entire life, in any physical event or fight? I've never seen it. If it has occurred it's an anomaly. I've watched women who were supposedly great fighters just get overpowered in sparing matches against men of far lesser training.

I casually watch boxing and MMA, and the difference of males and females is night and day. In fact, famously, there have been only a few females fighting males in events but women lose and lose badly. One was in 2021, in MMA. Most famously probably was a female world champion fighter who got KO'd by a male nobody amateurs. Lucia Rjiker was dubbed the greatest female boxer and kickboxer - literally the female Mike Tyson - and she lost badly against amateur an male Muay Thai fighter. You can research it.

Excellent to know how to fight, absolutely. But it's a delusion to think a woman Krav Maga fighter is going to stand any hope against a male with a weapon. Martial arts are excellent but should NOT (edited to add "NOT") replace firearms ownership, training, and carrying where lawful. Instead of 5 years in Krav Magra, take 2 years in that and 3 years of dedicated firearms training in lieu.

Get more training for both of you and carry those guns, they are unrivaled tools of self defense.

 

[leadcounsel]

Exactly. The odds of a woman being able to defend herself by pulling a firearm out of her pocket book and defending herself is effectively zero. Not sure I with $4000+ of training could do it. making it accessible in a vehicle is dooable, defending herself in a bedroom behind a bed is dooable. Sending a woman out with a firearm in a pocketbook is a recipe for disaster in many times with a few exceptions.

I teach defensive firearms but with the exception of these "dooable" situations I would rather she take an NRA Seminar "Refuse to be a Victim" which I teach. I will though admit that a gun in a purse could work in slooow developing situation. But again Training. Most people would be ineffecive a large percentage of encounters without training.

I 100% disagree with this advice and if I were in your class, I would leave.

Watch real world shootings around the globe, usually caught on CCTV surveillance. People, routinely, draw concealed firearms and fend off attackers. I don't want to violate the terms on this site but one famous one is on Youtube ASP channel. Go find this video which 100% proves the opposite of the methods you teach your students. This woman probably saved a life or lives of a bunch of children and women outside a school. Go to Youtube, find this video.

Mama Bear Makes Robber Take Room Temperature Challenge | Active Self Protection​

 

[leadcounsel]

I have put many thousands of rounds down range with my old LCP. I found it comfortable to shoot. The Max, not so much. But I can empty a mag with it and in a gun fight, you won't feel a thing.

I again, respectfully disagree. I would put my training, ownership, and experience around and with firearms at top 15% in the nation. I've fired almost every common platform made, to include fully automatic, trial guns, subguns, explosives, M2s, M249s, M240s, and 10s of thousands of rounds thru Dillon Miniguns. I own a lot of guns too, and have shot countless rounds, a staggeringly large number. I'm also no weakling, and served extensively in several tip-of-the-spear infantry units on combat rotations. Just for context.

A Ruger LCP is about the worst possible recommendation for a recoil sensitive novice needing a gun for self defense. I own the original Keltec of the same design Ruger copied. It's a terrible gun to train on. The recoil is atrocious and painful on the hand and finger. Poor trigger too. It's small, hard to get a good grip on, and manipulate. This, combined with the non-existent sights, makes shots inaccurate and follow-up shots worse. The .380 is a fair choice from a full sized 4-5" gun, but from a mouse gun it is at the low end of the acceptable penetration requirements of the FBI and it benefits more from FMJ than HP b/c it won't reliably reach speeds needed for expansion + penetration. Also, very low capacity. As a result it remains my last choice of carry, I almost never carry this except when it is the only thing I can conceal (think, swim trunks at the beach).

Firearms proficiency requires training. A person must feel confident and well trained, able to hit a target under stress, and use a caliber reliably sufficient to stop a threat.

Let's look at the LCP. It's a recoil blowback 10 oz pistol that fires a .380 out of a 2.75 inch barrel. It's too small to get a good grip on, so light the recoil is punishing. A user simply will no digest enough thousands of rounds to get proficient. Finally, the .380 from a mouse gun is anemic on the low end of the scale of performance.

OP, do not bother with mouseguns in .380 (or 9mm), they are not a good choice.

 

[leadcounsel]

Here are my personal NO BS recommendations for a novice adult, based on my experience.
1. Get training, and deal with the recoil. It's part of shooting guns. Stop being whiney about it.
2. Of hammer vs. stiker, I recommend hammer for a novice. There are exceptions based on training and demonstrated comfort and proficiency. But especially for novices, strikers are a big liability IMHO.
3. That leaves us with this relatively short but excellent list of hammer fired guns.

Top Pick:
CZ 75D (PCR) compact (no light rail) or PO1 (light rail) (aluminum frames), or CZ P07 (polymer frame). This is a top recommendation, top tier class of hammer fired pistol, ultra reliable, slim, excellent size/weight and controls ergonomics, that have endured rigorous testing from a top shelf gunmaker. I prefer decockers but the CZ75 is available with a safety instead. Chosen by military and police around the world for 5 decades. I like the PO7 because it is lighter, has a better trigger, and a generous trigger well, excellent for gloved cold weather carry. Another is the benefit of changing the safety designs, either decocker or safety.

Look no further than this. Quite arguably the best handgun ever made, and surely on the short list. I would place this in my personal top 5 for carry/defense.

An arguable tie, but a bit fatter and harder to carry, is the SIG P229 9mm. The larger version of this, the P226, beat the Beretta M9 in the 1980s trials and should have been the US Military choice, but Beretta came in cheaper so Beretta won. Regardless, the P226 was chosen by Special Operations for 40 years. The P229 is the same gun but smaller for concealed carry (essentially an M11). Also, the P-series has been chosen by military and police around the world for many decades. One of my main carry guns is the P229 in .40 caliber. I recognize it is a bit fatter than the typical carry gun. This comes with or without a rail (the benefit of being slimmer and lighter for carry).

3rd recommendation is going to be an HK USP compact 9mm. It's essentially a scaled down version of the Mark23, designed for the Navy SEALS in the 90s I believe. If an award has to go to the most durable handgun made, it is the HK USP. HK has on display a documented USP that has fired some 209,000 rounds without parts failure, and the typical gun is rated for something like 50,000 rounds or some absurdly large number. Regardless, ultra excellent design and craftsmanship. Somewhat easier to rack the slide due to design as well. One big advantage of this is the benefit of changing the safety designs. I acknowledge it is a thicker gun as well, but that is offset by the profound excellence of the firearm. The rail is proprietary and requires special lights, but Olight makes affordable ones and there are adaptors. Many people do not carry a rail light (bulk/cost) anyway so it's a moot point.

A 4th option would be a hump-back style .38 SW revolver, such as the model 442. Get a pre-lock one if possible. I would not fire .357s out of this, but instead .38 or .38 + P. There will be some recoil and flash, and the sites stink. Range is going to be point-blank. The main advantage is this is dummy proof and would be almost impossible to jam outside of neglect. The huge advantage is point-shooting, which women might be particularly prone to be victim of someone grappling and laying on top of. A semi-auto might jam if pushed against a target (such as the belly of a attacker) as it might push the slide out of battery and disable the gun. A revolver like this will work and offer 5 effective shots of .38 special. It's the simplest of platforms for a number of training reasons.

Earlier I recommended a striker fired gun but I think that's more of an advanced design, so I retract that to a degree. However, I do almost daily carry my Walther PPS, and trust my life to it. But I am highly trained. The above guns are my best recommendations for this situation.

 

[ripcord]

Another thing to consider is the female anatomy (not those you chowder head), clothing and how that impacts the way they will carry their handgun. Women have shorter torsos, flared out hips and shorter arms, ect. This can limit their options for how they carry a handgun. Before choosing a handgun, she should be checking out holsters and carry methods which will impact the choice of weapon.

Another software over hardware issue.

 

[Revving2Redline]

My wife and I have a concealed carry permit. We rarely carry. I do when we go to our synagogue which is a few times a year. Here is the thing overlooked—element of surprise. Sometimes a criminal has it and good luck pulling a pistol out of a purse before he takes his crowbar and you end up in the ER. There is more to self defense than being proficient with firearms. My wife has a brown belt in Krav Maga. Look at it on YouTube if you never heard of it.

It's good stuff. All the arts are good but I think in the streets Krav Maga is pretty effective. I kick boxed but wasn't great at it but I did burn calories and made friends

 

[leadcounsel]

Another thing to consider is the female anatomy (not those you chowder head), clothing and how that impacts the way they will carry their handgun. Women have shorter torsos, flared out hips and shorter arms, ect. This can limit their options for how they carry a handgun. Before choosing a handgun, she should be checking out holsters and carry methods which will impact the choice of weapon.

Another software over hardware issue.

You'd be surprised @ripcord