Need a CHEEP replacement for an Orange Can-O-Death
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I pay less for Napa Golds (Wix) than what I see Frams retailing for at most auto parts stores.
ST is good.
I think the supertech at $2.50 at Walmart is a good replacement for a Fram which cost a little more. I can't imagine someone not willing to pay 1.17 more for an ACDelco, but it's possible the suoertech is the same thing. The nice thing about this aplcation is there's no bypass in the filter to worry about.
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Supertech from walmart.
Originally Posted By: gofastman
For a Pontiac Bonneville with a 3.8.
Would Super-Tech be an upgrade from the current Fram?
Its going on an extreme penny pincher's car (not mine)and
Im trying to steer they guy away from Fram filters.
ST is better and cheaper than fram
For a Pontiac Bonneville with a 3.8.
Would Super-Tech be an upgrade from the current Fram?
Its going on an extreme penny pincher's car (not mine)and
Im trying to steer they guy away from Fram filters.
ST is better and cheaper than fram
My concern with the ST is the quality of the filter. I noticed the recent stock of ST for my application contained what appeared to be exposed glue at the edges of the base plate. That was alarming to me as I have not seen any other filter like that.
As a result, I think a quick stop to Kmart and buy a Purolator Classic for $5 OTD would be wise.
As a result, I think a quick stop to Kmart and buy a Purolator Classic for $5 OTD would be wise.
Originally Posted By: gofastman
And the ST is better than the fram one?
For the price yes. I do not like them but if it isn't for your vehicle and for s penny pincher i would recommend it.
And the ST is better than the fram one?
For the price yes. I do not like them but if it isn't for your vehicle and for s penny pincher i would recommend it.
JHZR2
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Id go ac delco and not think about it a second more!
ST at WM for $2.50, and the one i bought today was stamped "Made in the USA"
NAPA proselects, aka silvers* My local NAPA sells em for like $1.97. However, last year, i used one for 3 months, hacjked it open, and ntocied the media as starting to crimple and bog down. It did have a bypass and metal endcaps though! FOr such a cheap price! This is a 95 neon.
Hacking open ac delcos, for my car, VERY sturdy, strong and filtered extremely well! NApa golds are really good. The super techs , indeed have cardboard endcaps just ike frams..the problem is, fram estra guards have that plastic bypass..my neone showed oil pressure problems every single time i ever used one, imediatly after installing it after and oil change, and reving the engine over.
Autozone used to have ther own house brand fo oil fitlers, for a few bucks,,see if they have those, I used on once, and neer had an issue!
Hacking open ac delcos, for my car, VERY sturdy, strong and filtered extremely well! NApa golds are really good. The super techs , indeed have cardboard endcaps just ike frams..the problem is, fram estra guards have that plastic bypass..my neone showed oil pressure problems every single time i ever used one, imediatly after installing it after and oil change, and reving the engine over.
Autozone used to have ther own house brand fo oil fitlers, for a few bucks,,see if they have those, I used on once, and neer had an issue!
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Id go ac delco and not think about it a second more!
I noticed at the GM dealer, that most of, if not all the AC Delco filters have the E-core just like the Supertech, so I am wondering if there is any difference in media or if they are the same filter.
Id go ac delco and not think about it a second more!
I noticed at the GM dealer, that most of, if not all the AC Delco filters have the E-core just like the Supertech, so I am wondering if there is any difference in media or if they are the same filter.
Originally Posted By: ziggy
NAPA proselects, aka silvers* My local NAPA sells em for like $1.97. However, last year, i used one for 3 months, hacjked it open, and ntocied the media as starting to crimple and bog down.....Autozone used to have ther own house brand fo oil fitlers, for a few bucks,,see if they have those, I used on once, and neer had an issue!
I was going to suggest NAPA silver, too. I'm surprised yours didn't hold up that great though.
But I've never actually inpected a used NAPA Silver ( Now called Pro-Select ).
Ya. AZ still has Valuecraft ( = Ecore, STP, Supertech, Champ, and AC/Delco new style ) for dirt cheap behind the counter. You have to ask for them. IMO, much better than Fram orange. I use them.
NAPA proselects, aka silvers* My local NAPA sells em for like $1.97. However, last year, i used one for 3 months, hacjked it open, and ntocied the media as starting to crimple and bog down.....Autozone used to have ther own house brand fo oil fitlers, for a few bucks,,see if they have those, I used on once, and neer had an issue!
I was going to suggest NAPA silver, too. I'm surprised yours didn't hold up that great though.
But I've never actually inpected a used NAPA Silver ( Now called Pro-Select ).
Ya. AZ still has Valuecraft ( = Ecore, STP, Supertech, Champ, and AC/Delco new style ) for dirt cheap behind the counter. You have to ask for them. IMO, much better than Fram orange. I use them.
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
I noticed at the GM dealer, that most of, if not all the AC Delco filters have the E-core just like the Supertech, so I am wondering if there is any difference in media or if they are the same filter.
According to someone here who recently got an email back from Champ. Labs, they are all the same now because they recently put an improved media in them and made them all the same media.
I noticed at the GM dealer, that most of, if not all the AC Delco filters have the E-core just like the Supertech, so I am wondering if there is any difference in media or if they are the same filter.
According to someone here who recently got an email back from Champ. Labs, they are all the same now because they recently put an improved media in them and made them all the same media.
In the 3950 application, I cut open the last Fram I ever bought. It had half the media the ST did and 1/3 that of a PF 1177. That was maybe 10 years ago, to long to be sure. More recent examples of almost everything now have less media. The current Purolator 10193 is closer to the old Fram than the old ST. Really anxious to get a look inside the STP 3950 on my truck now. Another Champ distributed brand.
Originally Posted By: labman
In the 3950 application, I cut open the last Fram I ever bought. It had half the media the ST did and 1/3 that of a PF 1177. That was maybe 10 years ago, to long to be sure. More recent examples of almost everything now have less media. The current Purolator 10193 is closer to the old Fram than the old ST. Really anxious to get a look inside the STP 3950 on my truck now. Another Champ distributed brand.
Just to show you that Fram really has a shortage of media, I took a new downsized Quaker State 8A (Made by Purolator, about 2/3 the size of a Fram) and a Fram 8A from my brother's truck and cut them open. The QS probably had 25% more media. The QS cost me $1.99.
In the 3950 application, I cut open the last Fram I ever bought. It had half the media the ST did and 1/3 that of a PF 1177. That was maybe 10 years ago, to long to be sure. More recent examples of almost everything now have less media. The current Purolator 10193 is closer to the old Fram than the old ST. Really anxious to get a look inside the STP 3950 on my truck now. Another Champ distributed brand.
Just to show you that Fram really has a shortage of media, I took a new downsized Quaker State 8A (Made by Purolator, about 2/3 the size of a Fram) and a Fram 8A from my brother's truck and cut them open. The QS probably had 25% more media. The QS cost me $1.99.
Originally Posted By: labman
More recent examples of almost everything now have less media.
But better media. I know you don't like Purolator, and that's not why I'm saying this, but it's the best example that I have:
The old blue P1s have about the same amount of media as the new yellow P1s but oil flows through, by gravity tests, twice as fast on the new ones. My filtration test shows it just as good, and the actual SAE rating is even better than the old blue version.
The Ecores I've seen have lots of media, and that's good, but I also look at easy of permeabiltiy and efficiency ratings. They are also pretty good on the ecores, but you can't tell by looking at just the square inches of paper.
Newer medias use more and more sythetic fibers in the blend which create very small openings for dirt to have to try to get through because they fence off the gaps left by the courser cellulose.
But since the manmade fibers are so fine, and round without rough edges, they allow oil to flow over them very easily.
The cellulose provides a good, strong base for the paper, but the synthethic fiberglass really blocks the openings allowing thinner and less media. This saves the manufacturer money and helpd keep prices down, but the efficiency ratings of the average filter just keeps going up over the years.
More recent examples of almost everything now have less media.
But better media. I know you don't like Purolator, and that's not why I'm saying this, but it's the best example that I have:
The old blue P1s have about the same amount of media as the new yellow P1s but oil flows through, by gravity tests, twice as fast on the new ones. My filtration test shows it just as good, and the actual SAE rating is even better than the old blue version.
The Ecores I've seen have lots of media, and that's good, but I also look at easy of permeabiltiy and efficiency ratings. They are also pretty good on the ecores, but you can't tell by looking at just the square inches of paper.
Newer medias use more and more sythetic fibers in the blend which create very small openings for dirt to have to try to get through because they fence off the gaps left by the courser cellulose.
But since the manmade fibers are so fine, and round without rough edges, they allow oil to flow over them very easily.
The cellulose provides a good, strong base for the paper, but the synthethic fiberglass really blocks the openings allowing thinner and less media. This saves the manufacturer money and helpd keep prices down, but the efficiency ratings of the average filter just keeps going up over the years.
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