Nearly arrested
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JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I was disturbed in that he asked me for my social security number. Is that allowed?
Dude, you are caught stealing batteries and you complain about the SSN?
You are lucky to not be in jail.
Did you read my OP?????
I was not stealing batteries. The town dump is for used oil only. People leave all kinds of other stuff there that the town has to deal with. Batteries are one of them. If I was removing abandoned fluorescent light bulbs would the result be the same, or is it because the battery may have some perceived value?
What part of OIL ONLY don't you understand?
Be in jail? For what crime? Taking something from a HAZMAT dump? LOL! People come scrapping trash looking for metal all the time. At least I wasnt pulling stuff from somebody's garbage can.
And again, what is the basis that SSN shouldbe used for ID? The SS card says not to be used for ID. Every entity under the sun is moving away from using SSN because it is personally identifiable information. The Federal Government has training and all kinds of regulations for safeguarding PII, yet the cop can just take my SSN, write it in his little notebook and walk around with it???!?
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I was disturbed in that he asked me for my social security number. Is that allowed?
Dude, you are caught stealing batteries and you complain about the SSN?
You are lucky to not be in jail.
Did you read my OP?????
I was not stealing batteries. The town dump is for used oil only. People leave all kinds of other stuff there that the town has to deal with. Batteries are one of them. If I was removing abandoned fluorescent light bulbs would the result be the same, or is it because the battery may have some perceived value?
What part of OIL ONLY don't you understand?
Be in jail? For what crime? Taking something from a HAZMAT dump? LOL! People come scrapping trash looking for metal all the time. At least I wasnt pulling stuff from somebody's garbage can.
And again, what is the basis that SSN shouldbe used for ID? The SS card says not to be used for ID. Every entity under the sun is moving away from using SSN because it is personally identifiable information. The Federal Government has training and all kinds of regulations for safeguarding PII, yet the cop can just take my SSN, write it in his little notebook and walk around with it???!?
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I was disturbed in that he asked me for my social security number. Is that allowed?
Dude, you are caught stealing batteries and you complain about the SSN?
You are lucky to not be in jail.
Did you read my OP?????
I was not stealing batteries. The town dump is for used oil only. People leave all kinds of other stuff there that the town has to deal with. Batteries are one of them. If I was removing abandoned fluorescent light bulbs would the result be the same, or is it because the battery may have some perceived value?
What part of OIL ONLY don't you understand?
Be in jail? For what crime? Taking something from a HAZMAT dump? LOL! People come scrapping trash looking for metal all the time. At least I wasnt pulling stuff from somebody's garbage can.
And again, what is the basis that SSN shouldbe used for ID? The SS card says not to be used for ID. Every entity under the sun is moving away from using SSN because it is personally identifiable information. The Federal Government has training and all kinds of regulations for safeguarding PII, yet the cop can just take my SSN, write it in his little notebook and walk around with it???!?
You were removing property that did not belong to you in hopes of making a profit. That is stealing.
Verb: Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: "thieves stole her bicycle".
Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
I was disturbed in that he asked me for my social security number. Is that allowed?
Dude, you are caught stealing batteries and you complain about the SSN?
You are lucky to not be in jail.
Did you read my OP?????
I was not stealing batteries. The town dump is for used oil only. People leave all kinds of other stuff there that the town has to deal with. Batteries are one of them. If I was removing abandoned fluorescent light bulbs would the result be the same, or is it because the battery may have some perceived value?
What part of OIL ONLY don't you understand?
Be in jail? For what crime? Taking something from a HAZMAT dump? LOL! People come scrapping trash looking for metal all the time. At least I wasnt pulling stuff from somebody's garbage can.
And again, what is the basis that SSN shouldbe used for ID? The SS card says not to be used for ID. Every entity under the sun is moving away from using SSN because it is personally identifiable information. The Federal Government has training and all kinds of regulations for safeguarding PII, yet the cop can just take my SSN, write it in his little notebook and walk around with it???!?
You were removing property that did not belong to you in hopes of making a profit. That is stealing.
Verb: Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it: "thieves stole her bicycle".
JHZR2
Staff member
So who did I steal it from? It was abandoned property left at a dump. Its not like I took it from somebody's garage.
If I took 5 quarts of used motor oil would it be a big deal? After all, I could put it in my car and save $25 in cost of oil.
If I took 5 quarts of used motor oil would it be a big deal? After all, I could put it in my car and save $25 in cost of oil.
What claim to ownership could the city make on the batteries? I see none.
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:
Nearly arrested
Battery, of course, being the charge.
boo
Quote:
Nearly arrested
Battery, of course, being the charge.
boo
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
What claim to ownership could the city make on the batteries? I see none.
Exactly. I guess the thing is that the borough could take them to a scrap metal dealer to sell. IMO the ROI on this would be poor, and if they just use a HAZMAT outfit to haul stuff away, that likely costs a lot per pound.
What claim to ownership could the city make on the batteries? I see none.
Exactly. I guess the thing is that the borough could take them to a scrap metal dealer to sell. IMO the ROI on this would be poor, and if they just use a HAZMAT outfit to haul stuff away, that likely costs a lot per pound.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: bigmike
So... how much did you make on the scrap items? Just wondering if it turned out to be lucrative.
I sold the bunch of car batteries that I had at my home (from my multiple car purchases, a neighbor moving out that had two in their garage, my home alarm, etc) at 18c/lb. Had 214lb.
I had done some knob and tube pullout, so had a bunch of copper wire, some other copper tubing, some aluminum siding,
Wasnt that much stuff, mass-wise after the batteries. Still left with $67.
Beats leaving it out at the curb or dropping the batteries off at the town dump (illegally). Had a day off, and it got the junk out of my yard.
So... how much did you make on the scrap items? Just wondering if it turned out to be lucrative.
I sold the bunch of car batteries that I had at my home (from my multiple car purchases, a neighbor moving out that had two in their garage, my home alarm, etc) at 18c/lb. Had 214lb.
I had done some knob and tube pullout, so had a bunch of copper wire, some other copper tubing, some aluminum siding,
Wasnt that much stuff, mass-wise after the batteries. Still left with $67.
Beats leaving it out at the curb or dropping the batteries off at the town dump (illegally). Had a day off, and it got the junk out of my yard.
I think you were removing the Batteries so they could be disposed of in a more appropriate, Legal place
If you were stealing, the cop should charge you.
What more does he need to know.
What if he ran a check and found something in your background?
Would that influence what you are doing NOW.
It's like a cop pulling you over because of a broken tail light, then wanting to search your car. You might consent because you feel it might save you a ticket, but it CAN open a real 'Can of worms' for you if the cop feels he wants to nail someone, or feels you are guilty of something BECAUSE you are too agreeable. (This happened to me)
If you were stealing, the cop should charge you.
What more does he need to know.
What if he ran a check and found something in your background?
Would that influence what you are doing NOW.
It's like a cop pulling you over because of a broken tail light, then wanting to search your car. You might consent because you feel it might save you a ticket, but it CAN open a real 'Can of worms' for you if the cop feels he wants to nail someone, or feels you are guilty of something BECAUSE you are too agreeable. (This happened to me)
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
So who did I steal it from? It was abandoned property left at a dump. Its not like I took it from somebody's garage.
If I took 5 quarts of used motor oil would it be a big deal? After all, I could put it in my car and save $25 in cost of oil.
Wow. Are you serious? If yes then you might want to explore property ownership laws as you may not be as lucky the next time.
So who did I steal it from? It was abandoned property left at a dump. Its not like I took it from somebody's garage.
If I took 5 quarts of used motor oil would it be a big deal? After all, I could put it in my car and save $25 in cost of oil.
Wow. Are you serious? If yes then you might want to explore property ownership laws as you may not be as lucky the next time.
i feel its good to give the officer my ssn. be cause if something comes up they know iam bill jack ssn 444-555-6666 instead of bill jack ssn 999-888-7777. after all if i cant trust an officer who can i trust. i know i know some are are not trust worthy. but all officers i have dealt with are top notch up right officers.
It depends on whether the county dump has a contract with someone to remove all the abandoned stuff, and whether the bid factor in the valuable stuff.
If they usually have $200 worth of valuable (metal, battery, etc) and they bid $500, and you take away $100 worth of valuable, then the bid may be different next time.
Or just to keep consistent enforcement so they can nail the dumpster diving thefts in other area.
If they usually have $200 worth of valuable (metal, battery, etc) and they bid $500, and you take away $100 worth of valuable, then the bid may be different next time.
Or just to keep consistent enforcement so they can nail the dumpster diving thefts in other area.
Do you own the dump JHZR2? I beleive you mentioned that it was a public facility, thus owned by all the taxpayers.
Pandabear nailed it. Whether the item that was left at the facility was legal or not leave there, it was not yours to take, period. Many companies make a living on removing these materials under contract, and part of the factor in the whole thing is the opportunity to recoup scrap fees, just as you were attempting to do.
I'm not saying that people don't scrounge through trash cans, etc... for scrap and other things. People do. Is it always legal? No. The facility we use up at our cabin used to allow scrounging through the various piles of stuff. Now it is posted with fines if you do so.
Pandabear nailed it. Whether the item that was left at the facility was legal or not leave there, it was not yours to take, period. Many companies make a living on removing these materials under contract, and part of the factor in the whole thing is the opportunity to recoup scrap fees, just as you were attempting to do.
I'm not saying that people don't scrounge through trash cans, etc... for scrap and other things. People do. Is it always legal? No. The facility we use up at our cabin used to allow scrounging through the various piles of stuff. Now it is posted with fines if you do so.
It seems to me that if it is a public dump open to the public then the public can or should be able take or scavenge whatever they want out of it within reason unless posted differently IMO. I'm not a lawyer of course nor work in the refuge department, and I'd want to get permission from the dump yard manager first.
About the SSN request, that seems to be going over the line and hate when the police overstep. I don't think you are required to do anymore than identify yourself and a state issued ID should more than suffice. Or is this the new procedure treat everyone "equally" as if they might be an illegal alien or a terrorist even when it's obvious they are not
?
About the SSN request, that seems to be going over the line and hate when the police overstep. I don't think you are required to do anymore than identify yourself and a state issued ID should more than suffice. Or is this the new procedure treat everyone "equally" as if they might be an illegal alien or a terrorist even when it's obvious they are not
Dude, we have a lot of "California" lawyer dudes here
Way to get off track, people. Whether or not taking the batteries was theft is irrelevant (for the record I see no wrongdoing).
The issue is the officer's request of the SSN. It is not needed and in my opinion a fishing trip. The OP can be identified and arrested without a SSN. If there is another person with the same name who has an outstanding warrant, additonal info can be requested at that time. There are other ways to confirm identity other than SSN.
I'm sure the cop would love to catch some wanted felon rummaging through the town dump but where does that line of thinking end? Even a guy lugging old batteries around has a right to reasonable privacy. If he was indeed committing a crime, there would be plenty of time after the arrest to search his backround further. This philosophy of "if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear" has been proven wrong so many times it is almost laughable. Things like the Patriot Act kind of take the humor away, unfortunately.
The issue is the officer's request of the SSN. It is not needed and in my opinion a fishing trip. The OP can be identified and arrested without a SSN. If there is another person with the same name who has an outstanding warrant, additonal info can be requested at that time. There are other ways to confirm identity other than SSN.
I'm sure the cop would love to catch some wanted felon rummaging through the town dump but where does that line of thinking end? Even a guy lugging old batteries around has a right to reasonable privacy. If he was indeed committing a crime, there would be plenty of time after the arrest to search his backround further. This philosophy of "if you've done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear" has been proven wrong so many times it is almost laughable. Things like the Patriot Act kind of take the humor away, unfortunately.
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