edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
They are trying to prevent things escalating to a point where someone needs help bcs. in many areas it is hot, it can very fast turn into disaster.
As for towing, get ready for the huge bill!
National Park Service cited AWD owner on 4WD trail!
- Thread starter edyvw
- Start date
As for towing, get ready for the huge bill!
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
They are capable, until the are not. They have CVT, which is arguably worst transmission choice when it comes to off roading. Add to that that many Subaru folks who use vehicles for off-roading put oversized tires, which really tax transmission. Suspension is not as stout etc. Just bcs. it has good AWD, does not make it a good off-roader. Though, Subaru is more than happy to make you believe that.
See that plateau on the upper right? You have to drive up there, and back down the other side. I wouldn’t want to do that in an Outback.
Not sure about then, but it's required now. Apparently it's for a limit of 50 per day - half online and half available at the visitor center. I think for the overnight permits, they require specific overnight sites be reserved.
Day-Use Permits
All vehicles, motorbikes, and bicyclists must have a day-use permit for single day trips on the White Rim. Overnight trips do not need an additional day-use permit.
But the extent of my Canyonlands experience is Island in the Sky and The Needles - all driving on pavement. But I did see an obliterated deer on the road to The Needles on BLM land.
Because most of them are driving on what are effectively dirt roads.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
A lot of people here take them to serious off-road paths. Towing companies love them.
Here's what we drove...Shafer Trail...so not the WR b/c I didn't start it when we got to the bottom. WR is red dash here.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
LOL, true. When I see BFG K/O2 on Subaru, I start wondering when the owner will pop out on BITOG to complain about failed CVT."Overlanding"
I'm curious how they distinguish between AWD and 4WD. I'm not sure how I would classify my Range Rover. But I am confident it could tackle this trail if a Subaru made it.
Here we go with a definition: https://www.nps.gov/cany/learn/management/determination-4wd.htm
Still not sure the Range Rover would qualify, lol. It has a transfer case, and it can lock, but it is all magically controlled by a computer.
A four wheel drive vehicle is defined as a sport utility vehicle (SUV) or truck with at least 1S-inch tire rims and at least eight inches of clearance from the lowest point of the frame, body, suspension, or differential to the ground. Four wheel drive vehicles have a transfer case between the front and rear axles that locks the front and rear drive shafts together when four wheel drive is engaged. All wheel drive (AWD) vehicles do not meet this definition.
Still not sure the Range Rover would qualify, lol. It has a transfer case, and it can lock, but it is all magically controlled by a computer.
I thought the key was some sort of "low range" that allows for increased traction at low speeds.
They don't seem to mention it in their description. Low range doesn't change the amount of traction available to the tires. It does provide more control and more torque, though.
IIRC it was the Colorado River Overlook trail in the Needles District. The trailhead is right beside the ranger station so it’s no big surprise they got his plate number.
Does the trouble start because people think AWD = 4WD?
Last edited:
Subaru very clearly markets their vehicles as all-wheel drive. People are ignorant on the difference between awd and 4wd.
Well the CVT ones are kind of FWD always with some RWD engagement, and then go to 4WD when needed as there is no centre diff, only a clutch pack. Ours seems to be nearly instantaneous on gravel/ snow, with perhaps a tiny bit of front slip before the rear kicks in, but nothing like our old 06 CRV.
So it kind of is 4WD, and I've always had one front and one rear tire spinning(with it braking the spinning side) when its been stuck but I certainly don't rock crawl with it. I would point it up anything called a road or trail where you don't need a whole lot of articulation, even if its in very bad shape, but creeping up long steep rock sections is out for me! It might do it for a bit, but not all day... The overhangs are big and the whole car is big for its ground clearance, but my wife takes it down some very rough old logging roads and brings it back(with a few scars....)
My old 03 Tracker was way more fun to go on "trails" even with less ground clearance, just because it was much smaller and you can do lines than the rut makers don't use.
I wouldn't off road a crosstrek much either, but its smaller footprint, small overhangs, lower weight with basically the same drivetrain as the Outback probably makes it surprisingly good if you know what you are doing, and don't melt the torque converter....
Technically my 2015 Pilot passed the criteria. VTM lock covers the requirements outlined.
I'm pleasantly surprised that a government agency doesn't conflate AWD with 4WD but they’re going to have to change some rules as electric trucks start to flood the market . They don’t need a transfer case or low gearing to generate large amounts of torque and control at low speeds.
