napa gold oil filters vs purolator classic filters

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I know everyone's probably seen it but lets revisit a wix filter spec page to help you out. Its all very straightforward and simple.

Product Specifications



Part Number: 51358
UPC Number: 765809513587
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 2.782 (71)*
Outer Diameter Top: 2.685 (68)*
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed:
Thread Size: 20X1.5 MM
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=6/20
Burst Pressure-PSI: 265
Max Flow Rate: 8-10 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21
Operating Temp. (min): 0
Operating Temp. (max): 0
Capacity: 0
 
Also assuming its true that the most damaging particals are between 5 an 10 microns, it sure would be nice to know what fram is capable of at those sizes.
listing it as 99% at 20+ seems to be playing it pretty safe as far as accountability goes.
 
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Also assuming its true that the most damaging particals are between 5 an 10 microns, it sure would be nice to know what fram is capable of at those sizes.


It's been quoted somewhere on here.

Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
listing it as 99% at 20+ seems to be playing it pretty safe as far as accountability goes.


Again, if ANY oil filter (regardless of brand) is specified to be "99% efficient at 20 microns", then obviously the efficiency will be much less at 5 or 10 microns.

The efficiency % quoted at 20 microns is kind of an industry practice. So the filter that is better at 20 microns will also be better below 20 microns.
 
Some filters are listed at 25 microns or greater. I have 4 old p1 filters I picked up for a couple bucks. Says based on ISO 458-12 at 40 microns. I've seen more modern filters listed at 25 or 40.

The fact is fram states
So if 1% are between 20 and 30 microns and 98% are 30 and above, well, which ones slid on by.

Fram does not state its efficiency is 99% at 20. Must be for a reason.
 
^Because clearly common sense can help one deduce the larger the particle the greater the percentage of efficiency.
whistle.gif


OR do they need to tell you a specific percentage, eg 99.7% @ 25 micron; etc. since clearly anything LARGER than 20 micron will filter better than 99%?

That is Fram's claim. ANYTHING greater than 20 micron WILL be filtering 99% or better the larger the particle.

There is no argument but pure waste of internet space.

BACK to the topic at hand:

I'd use a Napa Gold / Wix > Purolator Classic hands down. The Classics have proven to have a persistent tearing problem. Kind of like some people failing to conclude with simple logic that > 20 micron might just mean what it suggests.
smile.gif
 
Your right common sense can help one determine that the larger the partical the the better the filtration. That's why wix and Purolator state at 20 microns. FRAM states at greater than. No point saying 20+ if it filters 99% at 20.
The fact that cannot be refuted is fram states it filters 99% of particals greater than 20 microns not 99% of 20.
 
FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency of PH8A, 3387A, and 4967 or equivalent FRAM TG or XG models under ISO 4548-12 for particles greater than 20 microns

This is what FRAM actually claims so my typeos above can be forgiven for the fact this is what was meant.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Originally Posted By: sayjac
Napa Gold spin-on can be had here for ~$3.60, at local Napa twice yearly sale.


Definitely worth stocking up during the sale.

Great filters at a great price.


Agreed. And because the sale is twice yearly, spring and fall, I don't have to stash many.

The local store was talking about making it once yearly, but thus far they've stuck with semi annual. Hope they continue that.
 
Dude,
Ask me a direct question about filtration. You want the beta ratio at every particle size tested for a given part number? I would be happy to supply but ONLY if you then request the same info from WIX of a comparable part number and publish them side by side.
 
Wow, with all due respect, you do not even know me sir.
1. We could not possibly make claims in print on boxes that are not true. Our competitors would be eating us alive in court if we did so. You have to have provable engineering data to support any claims on the box. Ask any lawyer, they will tell you the same.
2. I am not a salesman. I am a 35 yr ASE master technician who has owned a repair shop and worked in the auto parts industry in a variety of engineering, technical and marketing jobs.
Ask a direct question about a defined part number and I will gladly give you the information.
 
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency of PH8A, 3387A, and 4967 or equivalent FRAM TG or XG models under ISO 4548-12 for particles greater than 20 microns

This is what FRAM actually claims so my typeos above can be forgiven for the fact this is what was meant.


The Fram statement is the correct and more accurate. The other companies you mention imply greater than when they say at 20. No one can test for exactly 20 micron only particles, the powder they add in the multi pass test has more variation than 1 micron. So Fram is right.
 
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
FRAM Group testing of average filter efficiency of PH8A, 3387A, and 4967 or equivalent FRAM TG or XG models under ISO 4548-12 for particles greater than 20 microns

This is what FRAM actually claims so my typeos above can be forgiven for the fact this is what was meant.



The Fram statement is the correct and more accurate. The other companies you mention imply greater than when they say at 20. No one can test for exactly 20 micron only particles, the powder they add in the multi pass test has more variation than 1 micron. So Fram is right.
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
They are saying that all particles that are 20 microns or larger are captured. Simple as that. That also means that for every 100 particles that hit the filter, only 1 will get through that is 20 microns or larger.

If any particle 20 microns or larger is getting through, it's most likely a 20 micron particle instead of a 50 micron particle.

Remember, the efficiency test is done per ISO 4548-12 which dictates what sized particles are used in the test. They can't fudge around that. Purolator also quotes ISO 4548-12 ... but what does WIX quote? They don't say ... humm, who knows HOW they do their efficiency testing?
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Not quite, and I respectably disagree.

One,testing is controlled uses know sized particles, so there is a lot less "guessing". You can control for 20 microns and ISO 4548-12 is very specifc. So there is no out there. So you are correct that ISO uses specific outcomes/measurements. Then why does Fram not use that specificity or a Beta ratio which is specific to 4548-12 in their disclaimer? That whiffs of something funky (or bad marketing). It would be like Shell Oil using a different metric for their viscosity. Its close but ambiguous enough to fudge things. Thus, if you have a mix of micron particles 20-100 microns and and a filter catches 99%, it comes down to how you count that 99%. Is it by mass? Is it by a simple count? Fram could be catching an average of those particles of 99%. Thus 99.99 at 40, 99.9 at 30 and 97.5% at 20 and still meet their 99% claim. Now, Fram could be catching 99% at 20 but their marketing statement is not saying that. Considering that Purolater is a lot less wish-washy (but it is only for one specific filter), it sounds like Fram is trying to match the language. It is just like Purolator's awkward language about their replacement schedule.

Purolater:
Quote:
What does 99.9% efficiency mean? It means that 99.9% of all contaminants that pass through a PureONE oil filter are captured in the media...Based on ISO 4548-12 at 20 microns on PL30001

We can assert that purolator is stating a B100/20

Simply by using beta ratio, WIX clears up a lot more "greyness" than fram but yes, I would like the specific test rather than assuming 4548-12 (though that is fairly standard) and I see it as a lot less of a leap than Fram's jump.

If fram drops the "ISO 4548-12 for particles greater than 20 microns" and changes it to "ISO 4548-12 for particles at 20 microns" then the debate is over.

That "greater than" modifier is big issue.

Despite purolator having better statements, they still could not filter out gravel after a few hundred miles.
 
Originally Posted By: Scum_Frog
Why is FRAM even being discussed here?

The question is NAPA Gold vs Puro.

FRAM...get out of here and get your own thread
wink.gif



The statement was made that Napa Gold/Wix was a top-tier filter.

Then someone suggested that any filter with any paper media can not be considered top-tier and recommended the Fram Tough Guard or M1 filter (which are actually a blend). This then went into a filter efficiency debate as wix is clear in stating it's beta2/20=6/20 (95% at 20 microns) and Fram uses a more ambiguous statement of 99% of particles greater than 20 microns.

Purolator part of the debate is nearly nill as anyone with a rational look at recent events (documented filter failures with a deny all attitude) would have very little respect for the product and company.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
No one can test for exactly 20 micron only particles, the powder they add in the multi pass test has more variation than 1 micron. So Fram is right.


Actually, you can and you can account for some variation. The ISO 4548-12 is very specific for the particle size. Having particles of 18 microns making it past should not affect the 20 micron reading. Actually even only being speced for 20 microns, the filter should catch particles that are smaller (although fewer of those particles).
 
Originally Posted By: Motorking
Dude,
Ask me a direct question about filtration. You want the beta ratio at every particle size tested for a given part number? I would be happy to supply but ONLY if you then request the same info from WIX of a comparable part number and publish them side by side.


Ok, lets take my Toyota 1ZZ-FED engine (common for a lot of different vehicles) that uses the Wix 51394 or a Fram XG4967 (you can also list the Toughguard too if you want) I use both Wix and Fram btw so whichever is a good/better deal at the time, often OReillys offers the Bocsh (dont use) or WIX with their oil change special with the oil I prefer). So if you have the beta at 6 and 20 microns but if you have a 50% capture at a size less than 6, that is good too. Wix cites a 2/20=6/20 for that filter.

I will not use the Subaru filters as it is not as good of a context. 1) Fram only makes a hard-to-find Orange Can with the proper bypass spec and even Wix uses an odd/weak claim (15 micron nominal... so 50% at 15 or B2=15)

Also, I know you don't control the website/packaging but my issue is with the language, not with the product. Cheers
 
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Originally Posted By: FutureDoc

Purolator part of the debate is nearly nill as anyone with a rational look at recent events (documented filter failures with a deny all attitude) would have very little respect for the product and company.


01.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Scum_Frog
Why is FRAM even being discussed here?

The question is NAPA Gold vs Puro.

FRAM...get out of here and get your own thread
wink.gif


Unfortunately IMO it seems to be the norm here with the promotion of one product and/or agenda or another. Go back and reread this thread and that's how it started and then continued. So point very well taken with me.

As for the thought that > sign with efficiency is 'more accurate' than the use of @, 'I' think not. How does the Amsoil graph rate the ISO 4548-12 efficiency rating. Using the "@" symbol.

And though I'm not going to do the search to prove it, even the ultimate non-surrogate Fram authority posting here said the > sign is used because of (paraphrase) 'legal considerations'. I'll just say as an editorial opinion, I find that somewhat odd considering other manufacturers don't seem to have that same concern using @. Just me.

As for the topic, again, the NG/WIx is step/tier above the Classic in that it uses silicone adbv as compared to nitrile for the Classic. Lower tier Classic vs NG/Wix mid/midupper tier.
 
Originally Posted By: Scum_Frog
Why is FRAM even being discussed here?

The question is NAPA Gold vs Puro.

FRAM...get out of here and get your own thread
wink.gif



Woe woe easy. It wasn't I that turned it into a fram discussion. Also, no need gettin all ugly abot it. Were just debating facts here.
 
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