napa gold oil filters vs purolator classic filters

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
...I missed this. Can you link this information? Who is this independent source? Please, for the greater good......

As with most who frequent this board, thinking you can figure it out. And no, history as indicator, a link will not be provided.

As for "independent" source, much like the now unending debate about the meaning of > sign here, it would depend on your interpretation of the meaning of the word independent.

I'll say my interpretation of 'independent' would NOT include the 'mystery' source.

And to correct some information posted previously, Champ did not buy Fram. Neither did Fram buy Champ. Rank Group bought Champ Labs first, later also purchased Fram. Subsequent to that, Rank rolled up Champ under the Fram filtration banner.

 

[steveh]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Garak the Wix XP efficiency is exactly as the beta ratios are expressed, with 50% efficiency @ 20 microns using iso 4548-12, as verified by me through an independent source. They are "barely 50%" efficient too if I quote the results.

If you don't want to believe that I can't help you but I jumped through some hoops on my own for the greater good of BITOG even though no one welcomes the information with open arms
My guess would be honest Jay whispering in this guys ears because he is going to repeat everything like a parrot. Jay finds suckers like this to do his dirty work. Jay posted one time that the best Wix could do is 80% Wix claims 95%. So if this is true why doesn't Fram have Wix in court over this claim. Jay always tries to use this sales pitch when he makes claims about Fram.

 

[Bigdaddyeasy]

Originally Posted By: steveh
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Garak the Wix XP efficiency is exactly as the beta ratios are expressed, with 50% efficiency @ 20 microns using iso 4548-12, as verified by me through an independent source. They are "barely 50%" efficient too if I quote the results.

If you don't want to believe that I can't help you but I jumped through some hoops on my own for the greater good of BITOG even though no one welcomes the information with open arms
My guess would be honest Jay whispering in this guys ears because he is going to repeat everything like a parrot. Jay finds suckers like this to do his dirty work. Jay posted one time that the best Wix could do is 80% Wix claims 95%. So if this is true why doesn't Fram have Wix in court over this claim. Jay always tries to use this sales pitch when he makes claims about Fram.


Lol I believe your right. "honest jay" haha I like that. Lots repeat parrots around here.

 

[Bigdaddyeasy]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Your right, I take everything a sales man says as a grain of salt. Show me the proof don't just throw noise pollution my way.


All I can say is that you shouldn't believe anyone's claims ... not even WIX! ... because you have no proof that they are right or wrong either. Performance claims from Fram, WIX or anyone else who make oil filters could erroneous. So just why would you believe WIX but not Fram? Seems a bit biased I'd say ... you a WIX shill?

Did you even read those thread links I gave you?

So, my suggestion for you is to:

1) buy your own ISO 4548-12 test bench (only $225,000), or

2) have an independent lab do some ISO 4548-12 testing for you at ~$5,000 per filter. I've looked into both of these options, so if you want the source of the bench or the test facility just let me know.

The ONLY way you will believe anything is for you to prove it to yourself. You will obviously believe nobody or any information given to you by people who have researched the subjected matter.

At least wix puts the info out without the misleading language. They can be held accountable to some claims ie. Efficiency 2/20=6/20 flow rates per individual filters listed and Bp or burst pressure rates etc. FRAM gives an extremely unclear spec in a way they ingenuously anticipated your average Joe would interpret to be 99% at 20. The reality ,however, being @ greater than 20. Really they don't have to account for anything. All they have to do is be capable of filtering 99% of microns larger than 20. Between 20 to infinity.

I know you just don't get that. We've been over it and over it now. Your like the old lady that swallowed the fly. I don't know why you swallowed the LIE and all the rationalizations to cover it, perhaps you'll....
Keep throwing your money away.

 

[ExMachina]

Besmirching Jay motorking's character is spectacularly unfair. No basis for that Bigdaddyeasy and steveh.

Fram has made quality products for several years now at least. Their current line has solid engineering. Fram Ultra and ToughGaurds are my current favorites from what I can gather.

 

[Oil Changer]

From your engineering background, experience, or what you read on the Internet?

Using any filter that exceeds OEM requirements will not let your engine live one second longer.

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
Fram Ultra and ToughGaurds are my current favorites from what I can gather.

 

[ExMachina]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
From your engineering background, experience, or what you read on the Internet?

Basically all 3.
Tech articles, reasoned physics arguments, you know, usual engineering stuff.
All you have is anecdotal, old-wives-tales, so is that better?

 

[Nate1979]

Quit feeding the anti-Fram trolls. They are not worth the effort.

 

[Oil Changer]

No, it is not better. I have close to two decades of hands-on experience proving that all one needs is a filter that honestly meets OEM specifications. Anything else is simply Internet chatter.

Engineers. PPPfffttt!! Like the book smart with no experience engineers that lined out the road we're rebuilding but shut us down for three days because their math didn't work because they lack the fundamental experience to realize it before hand.

Originally Posted By: ExMachina
All you have is anecdotal, old-wives-tales, so is that better?

 

[goodtimes]

I'll relief pitch. It's just nomenclature, @ and > than mean the same thing when talking efficiency of oil filters by the standard tests. At 20 or greater than 20 mean exactly the same thing here. You are getting the efficiency rating starting with 20 micron particles, and whatever else is in the powder they throw in during the same test. One writer in a tech dept is looser and says @, another is more accurate and says greater than. If you aren't willing to change a view, that's OK too. But there is no conspiracy theory here. Fram has someone to answer questions here, which in itself says a lot. Even if he does it on his own time, or not, he is an insider others don't give to the people here.

 

[Oil Changer]

Anti-Fram trolls! PPPfffttt! If you Fram fanboys could prove one iota of anything you claim there would be no trolls. Prove that any Fram filter will make an engine live longer. You won't because you can't. In fact, the evidence speaks otherwise. But ssshhh! No one here gets compensated to say that.

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Quit feeding the anti-Fram trolls. They are not worth the effort.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Meanwhile, about 7 million PCMO oil changes happened this past week and I would venture to guess that for more than 80% of those OCs the owner is clueless as to what filter was installed. In addition, out of the 7 million OCs less than 0.001% will develop an oil filter related issue no matter what brand was installed. Save for some blatant defect, it really does not matter what brand you choose...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: sayjac
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
...I missed this. Can you link this information? Who is this independent source? Please, for the greater good......

As with most who frequent this board, thinking you can figure it out. And no, history as indicator, a link will not be provided.


As discussed earlier, everyone knows it was Batman's butler, 'ol Albert that had those ISO tests done in the Frankenstein lab - LoL. Guess OC was on vacation when all that talk was taking place.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: steveh
My guess would be honest Jay whispering in this guys ears because he is going to repeat everything like a parrot. Jay finds suckers like this to do his dirty work. Jay posted one time that the best Wix could do is 80% Wix claims 95%.


If he posted that, then maybe you can link to it. I don't recall him making that claim. I think it might have been the newer K&N filters after they were made outside the USA ... not WIX.

 

[Oil Changer]

Exactly! So why all the FU talk?

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Meanwhile, about 7 million PCMO oil changes happened this past week and I would venture to guess that for more than 80% of those OCs the owner is clueless as to what filter was installed. In addition, out of the 7 million OCs less than 0.001% will develop an oil filter related issue no matter what brand was installed. Save for some blatant defect, it really does not matter what brand you choose...

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
At least wix puts the info out without the misleading language. They can be held accountable to some claims ie. Efficiency 2/20=6/20 flow rates per individual filters listed and Bp or burst pressure rates etc.


Again, the "flow rate" WIX adversities really means nothing. It's a nebulous number with no qualification values that are missing (ie, oil viscosity and delta-p across the media). I truly don't think you understand any of this at all.

Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
FRAM gives an extremely unclear spec in a way they ingenuously anticipated your average Joe would interpret to be 99% at 20. The reality ,however, being @ greater than 20. Really they don't have to account for anything. All they have to do is be capable of filtering 99% of microns larger than 20. Between 20 to infinity.


LoL ... the part in red is basically what we've been trying to convince you (and others) of understanding. If 20.0001 and greater is "between 20 to infinity", then saying 99% >20 microns or greater is the same exact thing. You said it yourself, yet you still don't get it? Wow ...

Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
I know you just don't get that. We've been over it and over it now. Your like the old lady that swallowed the fly. I don't know why you swallowed the LIE and all the rationalizations to cover it, perhaps you'll....
Keep throwing your money away.


LoL ... just read what I said above ... granny.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Anti-Fram trolls! PPPfffttt! If you Fram fanboys could prove one iota of anything you claim there would be no trolls. Prove that any Fram filter will make an engine live longer. You won't because you can't. In fact, the evidence speaks otherwise. But ssshhh! No one here gets compensated to say that.


Who claimed a Fram will make an engine last longer. I think a lot of guys use higher efficiency filters because they are available and it might just be of some benefit. And it's the guys who understand filtering and performance specs and construction of oil filters the best that know which filters rise to the top and which ones are lower tier.

Bottom line, with or without any data to back it up is that a higher efficiency filter isn't going to hurt. If it cost a little more, who cares ... it's NOT your money being spent.

I really get laugh out of guys who put others down for using a product THEY don't like or don't use themselves. There are a lot of those guys here on this board, and in this thread.

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Exactly! So why all the FU talk?


Because of what I said above.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Exactly! So why all the FU talk?
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Meanwhile, about 7 million PCMO oil changes happened this past week and I would venture to guess that for more than 80% of those OCs the owner is clueless as to what filter was installed. In addition, out of the 7 million OCs less than 0.001% will develop an oil filter related issue no matter what brand was installed. Save for some blatant defect, it really does not matter what brand you choose...
There is one caveat to what I said earlier:

There is one heck of a difference between "needs" and "wants". For the vast majority on this board changing their oil at 7.5K or less they do not NEED anything other than the first filter they grab on the shelf--while that may irritate some people (including yourself), it is 100% true--however, anyone can WANT to use a top tier filter for a 5K OCI and that is fully their prerogative, but see it as it is.

For the minority of us on this board extending our OCIs something a bit more than "an ordinary filter" is needed. FOR THE MONEY, I know of no other filter than the FRAM Ultra that can SAFELY be used for a 12K+ OCI that is as EFFICIENT and that is the reason I use them. IMHO, I need them for my OCIs, otherwise, I would still be using MC filters for
PS...in case you have not figured it out, people are talking about the FRAM Ultra for the same reason that you beat WIX into the ground...it is what they perceive as "the best" and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
... however, anyone can WANT to use a top tier filter for a 5K OCI and that is fully their prerogative, but see it as it is.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
PS...in case you have not figured it out, people are talking about the FRAM Ultra for the same reason that you beat WIX into the ground...it is what they perceive as "the best" and there is nothing wrong with that.


Yep

PSS ... WIX is a good filter, BUT ... the Ultra is better. I guess the truth hurts for some people.