Isn't there still still a website that shows the old Wix data before it was white washed? I can't quite recall
napa gold oil filters vs purolator classic filters
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Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Is that a form of discrimination ^^
Yep. It appears I purchase filters based upon color alone!
901Memphis: I think there is one, some reseller in the U.S. Dave Newton knows what it is, if I recall correctly.
Is that a form of discrimination ^^
Yep. It appears I purchase filters based upon color alone!
901Memphis: I think there is one, some reseller in the U.S. Dave Newton knows what it is, if I recall correctly.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Marco620
The Napa Gold is a closet Fram Ultra possibly...
As much as I respect Wix/Napa Gold filters it's not the same thing. The Wix is a cellulose based filter with some synthetic blended into the media while the Fram Ultra is a full microglass media filter with far superior specs.
The Wix/Napa Gold are much closer in comparison to the Fram Tough Guards which have superior filtration specs already.
Well to say they gram has superior specs.
What are those"far superior specs" I mean real not imagined or made up. Last I checked, FRAM doesn't share much of that info at all like wix does.
The "flow" info WIX shows means nothing without some missing information - ie, the oil viscosity/temperature and delt-p across the media. If you want to compare real flow performance on oil filters, you would need data like this for all filters in the comparison. No company publishes this info ... SuperBusa was fortunate enough to talk Purolator into doing a test to get the data.
PureOne Flow vs Delt-P Data [Link]
The WIX beta ratio information (efficiency) has all been "white washed" now showing them all to be 95% @ 20 microns. It didn't use to be that way. Frankly, the "specs" WIX shows is nothing special, and some of it is not even useful - like the "flow" spec.
Ok I can accept that wix has white washed or whatever. Show me the proof that FRAM has superior specs. I could use the same line yall use for FRAM and say if wix didnt live up to its claims that their competitors would be all over it and so it must be accurate and all the nonsense yall come up with.
Yall do not know what frams specs are and your not gonna know cuz their not gonna reveal it. Motorking saying so is not proof.didn't the Kirby vacuum sales man ever knock on your door and give you his spill or haven't you bought cars and had to hassle with the over zealous sales man. Jay has sold you guys an ideal.
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Marco620
The Napa Gold is a closet Fram Ultra possibly...
As much as I respect Wix/Napa Gold filters it's not the same thing. The Wix is a cellulose based filter with some synthetic blended into the media while the Fram Ultra is a full microglass media filter with far superior specs.
The Wix/Napa Gold are much closer in comparison to the Fram Tough Guards which have superior filtration specs already.
Well to say they gram has superior specs.
What are those"far superior specs" I mean real not imagined or made up. Last I checked, FRAM doesn't share much of that info at all like wix does.
The "flow" info WIX shows means nothing without some missing information - ie, the oil viscosity/temperature and delt-p across the media. If you want to compare real flow performance on oil filters, you would need data like this for all filters in the comparison. No company publishes this info ... SuperBusa was fortunate enough to talk Purolator into doing a test to get the data.
PureOne Flow vs Delt-P Data [Link]
The WIX beta ratio information (efficiency) has all been "white washed" now showing them all to be 95% @ 20 microns. It didn't use to be that way. Frankly, the "specs" WIX shows is nothing special, and some of it is not even useful - like the "flow" spec.
Ok I can accept that wix has white washed or whatever. Show me the proof that FRAM has superior specs. I could use the same line yall use for FRAM and say if wix didnt live up to its claims that their competitors would be all over it and so it must be accurate and all the nonsense yall come up with.
Yall do not know what frams specs are and your not gonna know cuz their not gonna reveal it. Motorking saying so is not proof.didn't the Kirby vacuum sales man ever knock on your door and give you his spill or haven't you bought cars and had to hassle with the over zealous sales man. Jay has sold you guys an ideal.
Oh ya your probably getting your filters free though. Good price for sure. Lol
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Is that a form of discrimination ^^
Yep. It appears I purchase filters based upon color alone!
901Memphis: I think there is one, some reseller in the U.S. Dave Newton knows what it is, if I recall correctly.
Lol
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Is that a form of discrimination ^^
Yep. It appears I purchase filters based upon color alone!
901Memphis: I think there is one, some reseller in the U.S. Dave Newton knows what it is, if I recall correctly.
Lol
^^^ Since nobody can make you "happy" with the information they have, maybe you should change your signature ... again. Maybe "I'm discouraged" would fit better! LoL
OK, last time ... read these threads. If you don't believe the FU is pretty up there in efficiency and flow, then I guess you lose out and can go use something a bit lower in performance.
Here is a post from Motorking that has some technical info that might make you happy ... but of course you think he's lying about this stuff.
Motorking Post [Link]
Another Motorking Post [Link]
There was also a post or two from Motorking on the flow rate of the FU that showed it was very good, and it should be since it's a full synthetic media. But I've spent enough time spoon feeding you info to try and make you "happy". If you don't believe it then who really cares?
OK, last time ... read these threads. If you don't believe the FU is pretty up there in efficiency and flow, then I guess you lose out and can go use something a bit lower in performance.
Here is a post from Motorking that has some technical info that might make you happy ... but of course you think he's lying about this stuff.
Motorking Post [Link]
Another Motorking Post [Link]
There was also a post or two from Motorking on the flow rate of the FU that showed it was very good, and it should be since it's a full synthetic media. But I've spent enough time spoon feeding you info to try and make you "happy". If you don't believe it then who really cares?
OK, I have one more spoon full of FU info left ... found the flow info from Motorking. Go read from this post and beyond.
Read from this Post .... [Link]
I've done all I can ... the baby food jar is empty now, and I'm tired of making airplane noises as I do my feeding. LoL
All in jest of course!
Read from this Post .... [Link]
I've done all I can ... the baby food jar is empty now, and I'm tired of making airplane noises as I do my feeding. LoL
All in jest of course!
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But I've spent enough time spoon feeding you info to try and make you "happy". If you don't believe it then who really cares?
Now I just had to hear this ... so I could be happy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM
This could help too ... http://24hoursofhappy.com/
But I've spent enough time spoon feeding you info to try and make you "happy". If you don't believe it then who really cares?
Now I just had to hear this ... so I could be happy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM
This could help too ... http://24hoursofhappy.com/
I also would just put in here that I have really learned a lot from Jay on this website. We're lucky to have his contributions. As others have said, nobody else comes on here and humors us whack jobs. I have always stayed away from Fram, just never been my thing. I have always used GM filters on my GM cars. Right now I am running a UPF48R. However, I have learned (and personally observed) that the UPF48R is a Champ labs product, a re-labeled Mobil 1. Also, ACDelco regular filters are Champ lab products. I was glad when Champ labs bought Fram because I can appreciate supporting a company that actually takes the time to communicate with some of its choosiest consumers.
Originally Posted By: CapitalTruck
I was glad when Champ labs bought Fram because I can appreciate supporting a company that actually takes the time to communicate with some of its choosiest consumers.
Wasn't it the other way around?
I was glad when Champ labs bought Fram because I can appreciate supporting a company that actually takes the time to communicate with some of its choosiest consumers.
Wasn't it the other way around?
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
^^^ Since nobody can make you "happy" with the information they have, maybe you should change your signature ... again. Maybe "I'm discouraged" would fit better! LoL
OK, last time ... read these threads. If you don't believe the FU is pretty up there in efficiency and flow, then I guess you lose out and can go use something a bit lower in performance.
Here is a post from Motorking that has some technical info that might make you happy ... but of course you think he's lying about this stuff.
Motorking Post [Link]
Another Motorking Post [Link]
There was also a post or two from Motorking on the flow rate of the FU that showed it was very good, and it should be since it's a full synthetic media. But I've spent enough time spoon feeding you info to try and make you "happy". If you don't believe it then who really cares?
Your right, I take everything a sales man says as a grain of salt. Show me the proof don't just throw noise pollution my way.
I never said fu was a bad filter. I'm sure its sufficient. Just probably not as spectacular as your imagination has it.the rest of FRAM, well,they just make me hungry to think about. Can't get the French donut outa my mind.
Well your just feeding me the wrong kinda food. I like the gold stuff much more than the orange. Keep the airplane noises though. I really like airplanes.
^^^ Since nobody can make you "happy" with the information they have, maybe you should change your signature ... again. Maybe "I'm discouraged" would fit better! LoL
OK, last time ... read these threads. If you don't believe the FU is pretty up there in efficiency and flow, then I guess you lose out and can go use something a bit lower in performance.
Here is a post from Motorking that has some technical info that might make you happy ... but of course you think he's lying about this stuff.
Motorking Post [Link]
Another Motorking Post [Link]
There was also a post or two from Motorking on the flow rate of the FU that showed it was very good, and it should be since it's a full synthetic media. But I've spent enough time spoon feeding you info to try and make you "happy". If you don't believe it then who really cares?
Your right, I take everything a sales man says as a grain of salt. Show me the proof don't just throw noise pollution my way.
I never said fu was a bad filter. I'm sure its sufficient. Just probably not as spectacular as your imagination has it.the rest of FRAM, well,they just make me hungry to think about. Can't get the French donut outa my mind.
Well your just feeding me the wrong kinda food. I like the gold stuff much more than the orange. Keep the airplane noises though. I really like airplanes.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But I've spent enough time spoon feeding you info to try and make you "happy". If you don't believe it then who really cares?
Now I just had to hear this ... so I could be happy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM
This could help too ... http://24hoursofhappy.com/
Hahaha, that was clever and funny. Good one. I do like the song to thanks.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
But I've spent enough time spoon feeding you info to try and make you "happy". If you don't believe it then who really cares?
Now I just had to hear this ... so I could be happy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM
This could help too ... http://24hoursofhappy.com/
Hahaha, that was clever and funny. Good one. I do like the song to thanks.
Originally Posted By: CapitalTruck
I also would just put in here that I have really learned a lot from Jay on this website. We're lucky to have his contributions. As others have said, nobody else comes on here and humors us whack jobs. I have always stayed away from Fram, just never been my thing. I have always used GM filters on my GM cars. Right now I am running a UPF48R. However, I have learned (and personally observed) that the UPF48R is a Champ labs product, a re-labeled Mobil 1. Also, ACDelco regular filters are Champ lab products. I was glad when Champ labs bought Fram because I can appreciate supporting a company that actually takes the time to communicate with some of its choosiest consumers.
I like m1 filters too. I'll post the one I have on one of my cars after 15k is up. They are a little proud though ie their price tag.
One day I'll try a fu or tg just for fun.
Upf48r? What's that filter or what's the lable name. Priced cheaper than m1??
I also would just put in here that I have really learned a lot from Jay on this website. We're lucky to have his contributions. As others have said, nobody else comes on here and humors us whack jobs. I have always stayed away from Fram, just never been my thing. I have always used GM filters on my GM cars. Right now I am running a UPF48R. However, I have learned (and personally observed) that the UPF48R is a Champ labs product, a re-labeled Mobil 1. Also, ACDelco regular filters are Champ lab products. I was glad when Champ labs bought Fram because I can appreciate supporting a company that actually takes the time to communicate with some of its choosiest consumers.
I like m1 filters too. I'll post the one I have on one of my cars after 15k is up. They are a little proud though ie their price tag.
One day I'll try a fu or tg just for fun.
Upf48r? What's that filter or what's the lable name. Priced cheaper than m1??
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Ok I can accept that wix has white washed or whatever. Show me the proof that FRAM has superior specs. I could use the same line yall use for FRAM and say if wix didnt live up to its claims that their competitors would be all over it and so it must be accurate and all the nonsense yall come up with.
The difference is that Wix claims weaker filtration than is likely (and what they did before) with their main line, and claim very poor filtration with the Wix XP. No one is going to sue Wix for performing better than advertised. I can only think of one example where the Wix might make a claim of better filtration than is actual, and that's with the double long version of the 51515. I don't recall the number of the filter, but it didn't have very good beta ratios, and it's current numbers are probably optimistic. But, who is going to sue over one example that 99.9% of mechanics, let alone the general public, have ever used?
If you want proof of superior specifications, well, the Fram Ultra claims much better efficiency than the Wix XP. I suspect that Wix is sandbagging us a bit, but I would doubt that are competition to the Ultra with respect to efficiency. If you want real, scientific proof, you're going to have to pony up and get some testing done or buy one of the companies and look at the data. Alternatively, you could found a licensing organization (akin to the API) and see if you can get all filter manufacturers to comply. Although in that case, you'd probably have a pass/fail situation like API, ILSAC, ACEA, and every manufacturer certification out there.
Ok I can accept that wix has white washed or whatever. Show me the proof that FRAM has superior specs. I could use the same line yall use for FRAM and say if wix didnt live up to its claims that their competitors would be all over it and so it must be accurate and all the nonsense yall come up with.
The difference is that Wix claims weaker filtration than is likely (and what they did before) with their main line, and claim very poor filtration with the Wix XP. No one is going to sue Wix for performing better than advertised. I can only think of one example where the Wix might make a claim of better filtration than is actual, and that's with the double long version of the 51515. I don't recall the number of the filter, but it didn't have very good beta ratios, and it's current numbers are probably optimistic. But, who is going to sue over one example that 99.9% of mechanics, let alone the general public, have ever used?
If you want proof of superior specifications, well, the Fram Ultra claims much better efficiency than the Wix XP. I suspect that Wix is sandbagging us a bit, but I would doubt that are competition to the Ultra with respect to efficiency. If you want real, scientific proof, you're going to have to pony up and get some testing done or buy one of the companies and look at the data. Alternatively, you could found a licensing organization (akin to the API) and see if you can get all filter manufacturers to comply. Although in that case, you'd probably have a pass/fail situation like API, ILSAC, ACEA, and every manufacturer certification out there.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Ok I can accept that wix has white washed or whatever. Show me the proof that FRAM has superior specs. I could use the same line yall use for FRAM and say if wix didnt live up to its claims that their competitors would be all over it and so it must be accurate and all the nonsense yall come up with.
The difference is that Wix claims weaker filtration than is likely (and what they did before) with their main line, and claim very poor filtration with the Wix XP. No one is going to sue Wix for performing better than advertised. I can only think of one example where the Wix might make a claim of better filtration than is actual, and that's with the double long version of the 51515. I don't recall the number of the filter, but it didn't have very good beta ratios, and it's current numbers are probably optimistic. But, who is going to sue over one example that 99.9% of mechanics, let alone the general public, have ever used?
If you want proof of superior specifications, well, the Fram Ultra claims much better efficiency than the Wix XP. I suspect that Wix is sandbagging us a bit, but I would doubt that are competition to the Ultra with respect to efficiency. If you want real, scientific proof, you're going to have to pony up and get some testing done or buy one of the companies and look at the data. Alternatively, you could found a licensing organization (akin to the API) and see if you can get all filter manufacturers to comply. Although in that case, you'd probably have a pass/fail situation like API, ILSAC, ACEA, and every manufacturer certification out there.
He's the one that said wix has superior specs so he should be able to prove it.
I think you might really be a closet FRAM guy. First you claimed you were defending them cuz you believed there was some spooky math going around concerning the whole @ greater than 20 thing. Now your defending them because????
By the way, did futuredoc ever get you lined out on the @ greater than 20 microns thing? Or are you still confused?
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Ok I can accept that wix has white washed or whatever. Show me the proof that FRAM has superior specs. I could use the same line yall use for FRAM and say if wix didnt live up to its claims that their competitors would be all over it and so it must be accurate and all the nonsense yall come up with.
The difference is that Wix claims weaker filtration than is likely (and what they did before) with their main line, and claim very poor filtration with the Wix XP. No one is going to sue Wix for performing better than advertised. I can only think of one example where the Wix might make a claim of better filtration than is actual, and that's with the double long version of the 51515. I don't recall the number of the filter, but it didn't have very good beta ratios, and it's current numbers are probably optimistic. But, who is going to sue over one example that 99.9% of mechanics, let alone the general public, have ever used?
If you want proof of superior specifications, well, the Fram Ultra claims much better efficiency than the Wix XP. I suspect that Wix is sandbagging us a bit, but I would doubt that are competition to the Ultra with respect to efficiency. If you want real, scientific proof, you're going to have to pony up and get some testing done or buy one of the companies and look at the data. Alternatively, you could found a licensing organization (akin to the API) and see if you can get all filter manufacturers to comply. Although in that case, you'd probably have a pass/fail situation like API, ILSAC, ACEA, and every manufacturer certification out there.
He's the one that said wix has superior specs so he should be able to prove it.
I think you might really be a closet FRAM guy. First you claimed you were defending them cuz you believed there was some spooky math going around concerning the whole @ greater than 20 thing. Now your defending them because????
By the way, did futuredoc ever get you lined out on the @ greater than 20 microns thing? Or are you still confused?
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
Your right, I take everything a sales man says as a grain of salt. Show me the proof don't just throw noise pollution my way.
All I can say is that you shouldn't believe anyone's claims ... not even WIX! ... because you have no proof that they are right or wrong either. Performance claims from Fram, WIX or anyone else who make oil filters could erroneous. So just why would you believe WIX but not Fram? Seems a bit biased I'd say ... you a WIX shill?
Did you even read those thread links I gave you?
So, my suggestion for you is to:
1) buy your own ISO 4548-12 test bench (only $225,000), or
2) have an independent lab do some ISO 4548-12 testing for you at ~$5,000 per filter. I've looked into both of these options, so if you want the source of the bench or the test facility just let me know.
The ONLY way you will believe anything is for you to prove it to yourself. You will obviously believe nobody or any information given to you by people who have researched the subjected matter.
Your right, I take everything a sales man says as a grain of salt. Show me the proof don't just throw noise pollution my way.
All I can say is that you shouldn't believe anyone's claims ... not even WIX! ... because you have no proof that they are right or wrong either. Performance claims from Fram, WIX or anyone else who make oil filters could erroneous. So just why would you believe WIX but not Fram? Seems a bit biased I'd say ... you a WIX shill?
Did you even read those thread links I gave you?
So, my suggestion for you is to:
1) buy your own ISO 4548-12 test bench (only $225,000), or
2) have an independent lab do some ISO 4548-12 testing for you at ~$5,000 per filter. I've looked into both of these options, so if you want the source of the bench or the test facility just let me know.
The ONLY way you will believe anything is for you to prove it to yourself. You will obviously believe nobody or any information given to you by people who have researched the subjected matter.
Originally Posted By: Bigdaddyeasy
First you claimed you were defending them cuz you believed there was some spooky math going around concerning the whole @ greater than 20 thing.
Yeah, understanding what the > symbol means is super spooky! ... as has been proven by this thread.
First you claimed you were defending them cuz you believed there was some spooky math going around concerning the whole @ greater than 20 thing.
Yeah, understanding what the > symbol means is super spooky! ... as has been proven by this thread.
Garak the Wix XP efficiency is exactly as the beta ratios are expressed, with 50% efficiency @ 20 microns using iso 4548-12, as verified by me through an independent source. They are "barely 50%" efficient too if I quote the results.
If you don't want to believe that I can't help you but I jumped through some hoops on my own for the greater good of BITOG even though no one welcomes the information with open arms
If you don't want to believe that I can't help you but I jumped through some hoops on my own for the greater good of BITOG even though no one welcomes the information with open arms
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I missed this. Can you link this information? Who is this independent source? Please, for the greater good...
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Garak the Wix XP efficiency is exactly as the beta ratios are expressed, with 50% efficiency @ 20 microns using iso 4548-12, as verified by me through an independent source. They are "barely 50%" efficient too if I quote the results.
If you don't want to believe that I can't help you but I jumped through some hoops on my own for the greater good of BITOG even though no one welcomes the information with open arms
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Garak the Wix XP efficiency is exactly as the beta ratios are expressed, with 50% efficiency @ 20 microns using iso 4548-12, as verified by me through an independent source. They are "barely 50%" efficient too if I quote the results.
If you don't want to believe that I can't help you but I jumped through some hoops on my own for the greater good of BITOG even though no one welcomes the information with open arms
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