Mobil 1 15w50 would work great in this application... I am not a big Mobil fan but the 15W50 is truly a great oil.
My rod bearings after a HPDE
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Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Mobil 1 15w50 would work great in this application... I am not a big Mobil fan but the 15W50 is truly a great oil.
I ruined a motor at the track - rod knock - with that Mobil 1 15w50 oil.
And you were able to POSITIVELY conclude that it was the oil's fault?
You may remember the 302 failure I posted recently. Whilst it was a lubrication failure, it was not a failure of the oil.
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Mobil 1 15w50 would work great in this application... I am not a big Mobil fan but the 15W50 is truly a great oil.
I ruined a motor at the track - rod knock - with that Mobil 1 15w50 oil.
And you were able to POSITIVELY conclude that it was the oil's fault?
You may remember the 302 failure I posted recently. Whilst it was a lubrication failure, it was not a failure of the oil.
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Mobil 1 15w50 would work great in this application... I am not a big Mobil fan but the 15W50 is truly a great oil.
I ruined a motor at the track - rod knock - with that Mobil 1 15w50 oil.
I highly doubt that you ruined your motor with this oil. Everyone likes to blame the oil instead of looking at human error.
Originally Posted By: Boss302fan
Mobil 1 15w50 would work great in this application... I am not a big Mobil fan but the 15W50 is truly a great oil.
I ruined a motor at the track - rod knock - with that Mobil 1 15w50 oil.
I highly doubt that you ruined your motor with this oil. Everyone likes to blame the oil instead of looking at human error.
At least one person has reinforced that this is obviously a result of oil starvation, and this seems to be the what makes the most sense to me considering the pictures. Other than that, Mitch is the only person to specifically question what oil temperatures were before speculating GC was too thin or advising to run a thicker oil. As a result I am definitely installing at least an oil temp gauge.
I am a bit confused reading the responses with the advice of running a thicker oil..are you guys implying that this incident was a result of too thin a oil? Or is this just a general statement aside from oil starvation being the likely cause? I do agree that using a grade higher viscosity is safer at the track for those who don't have the ability to monitor oil temperatures.
aquariuscsm: I have noticed that the Z32 owners who recommend using thick oils such as 15w50 or 20w50 on the forum (not even for racing, rather daily driving) are generally from hotter climates such as California or Texas...sometimes this is misleading when posted on the forums as facts. For example people like myself who live in NY, still see low temps at night or mornings all the way till mid summer...wouldn't want to cold start a car with that viscocity..In addition this is not optimal for the VTC system. Besides, is there any proof here that viscosity was the issue?
As for the quote from Specialty Z, of course they have a very good reputation in the Z world...but is there any oil temperature data to back this advice? Otherwise I think it is more a function of old school thinking.
I have also noticed from browsing this forum, that people often concentrate solely on the fact that oil pressure goes up using thicker oil, and therefore = a good thing...but what about the flow rate?
Anyhow being this is a forum dedicated solely to lubricants, I like seeing posts with more reasoning backing the statments made.
I am a bit confused reading the responses with the advice of running a thicker oil..are you guys implying that this incident was a result of too thin a oil? Or is this just a general statement aside from oil starvation being the likely cause? I do agree that using a grade higher viscosity is safer at the track for those who don't have the ability to monitor oil temperatures.
aquariuscsm: I have noticed that the Z32 owners who recommend using thick oils such as 15w50 or 20w50 on the forum (not even for racing, rather daily driving) are generally from hotter climates such as California or Texas...sometimes this is misleading when posted on the forums as facts. For example people like myself who live in NY, still see low temps at night or mornings all the way till mid summer...wouldn't want to cold start a car with that viscocity..In addition this is not optimal for the VTC system. Besides, is there any proof here that viscosity was the issue?
As for the quote from Specialty Z, of course they have a very good reputation in the Z world...but is there any oil temperature data to back this advice? Otherwise I think it is more a function of old school thinking.
I have also noticed from browsing this forum, that people often concentrate solely on the fact that oil pressure goes up using thicker oil, and therefore = a good thing...but what about the flow rate?
Anyhow being this is a forum dedicated solely to lubricants, I like seeing posts with more reasoning backing the statments made.
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If you've got starvation (which I agree, is what it definitely looks like) then the lubricant itself is the least of your worries. Find out why you are having starvation.
As far as oil goes, I'm a big fan of HDEO 40-weights; 5w40 for example. Just due to their robustness.
As far as oil goes, I'm a big fan of HDEO 40-weights; 5w40 for example. Just due to their robustness.
unless that first rod on the left is the last to see oil pressure i would say bearing material falure
Originally Posted By: VG30DETT
....... and most serious guys tracking this car have an accusump installed to prevent this.
That pretty much summed up the fix to keep this from happening again.
If going lean/preignition were causing this there would be other signs showing up before you would trash a bearing. Your plugs and pistons would give that away.
....... and most serious guys tracking this car have an accusump installed to prevent this.
That pretty much summed up the fix to keep this from happening again.
If going lean/preignition were causing this there would be other signs showing up before you would trash a bearing. Your plugs and pistons would give that away.
mod the oil pan with a kick out, so it will have 2 more qts.
An oil temp gauge and an oil pressure gauge are diagnostic tools. The temp gauge tells you if the oil is getting too thin, and the pressure gauge tells you that the oil is (or is not) being picked up and distributed correctly.
The cure for oil that is not being picked up and distributed correctly is better baffling in the pan, kickouts in the pan, and Accusump, better oil pump and/or pickup(s), or all.
The cure for oil that is too hot is more cooling not thicker oil. That is, put an oil cooler in the system to keep the oil at or below 285dF while running the snot out of the car continuously in 100+dF temps.
The cure for oil that is not being picked up and distributed correctly is better baffling in the pan, kickouts in the pan, and Accusump, better oil pump and/or pickup(s), or all.
The cure for oil that is too hot is more cooling not thicker oil. That is, put an oil cooler in the system to keep the oil at or below 285dF while running the snot out of the car continuously in 100+dF temps.
Yup, exactly. There is a modified oil pan with kickouts&baffles avaialable for my car that holds and extra quart, however some people on the Z32 forums used it without any real improvements...The accusump seems to be the cheapest working option, but I would rather put together a dry-sump system. But again for the time being I'm just going to get these gauges to see where I am at so I know when to take it easy.
The stock oil cooler on this car is a type that only cools a portion of oil based on pressure and dumps it into the sump...there is however a great kit avaialable from SPL that uses a radiator with built in heat exchanger for all of the oil flow to be cooled by the coolant. IIRC they were seeing steady oil temps of 220dF under racing conditions.
Also there may be some cues as to drainage from the heads being an issue at high rpm.
Anyway I will see how things go, and maybe if budget allows I can pursue the dry-sump endeavour.
The stock oil cooler on this car is a type that only cools a portion of oil based on pressure and dumps it into the sump...there is however a great kit avaialable from SPL that uses a radiator with built in heat exchanger for all of the oil flow to be cooled by the coolant. IIRC they were seeing steady oil temps of 220dF under racing conditions.
Also there may be some cues as to drainage from the heads being an issue at high rpm.
Anyway I will see how things go, and maybe if budget allows I can pursue the dry-sump endeavour.
I have used GC in my Neon SRT4 during an HDPE with oil temps reaching 280-290*f. I then continued using the oil for a couple more thousand miles. UOA came back normal except for high lead, which Blackstone said it was most likely from the leaded race fuel I ran during the HPDE, because all other wear metals were normal. I can post the UOA if you like, but it is a different engine. I am just trying to make the point that I used it in a turbocharged motor and also saw 280-285 degree temps.
I dont think the oil itself failed...
I dont think the oil itself failed...
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Here`s the lubrication page from the 1990-1996 Z32 FSM. It says only to use 5W30 under extremely cold conditions. It`s definitely not the oil you want to use in a 300ZX twin turbo while racing or tracking. I`m still willing to bet that`s what happened to your engine. All of the Z32 TT owners I know who race/track use 15W50/20W50.
Yes I have seen this. But it is also old and seems to not be Z specific although in the service manual. I believe the factory fill/dealer oil changes on the Z32 was dino oil which would shear out of grade sooner than synthetic so I can see why they want at least 10w30 in there. Again this depends on oil temperatures. The oil film is not the issue when only 2 bearings get damaged. How many people are all of the Z32 owners you know who track & do they have oil temps? I suspect they know each other well, and more than likely tend to run the same oil.
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One guy I know has almost 300,000 miles on his TT. He bought it brand new and has used only Pennzoil yb 20W50 and the Nissan OEM oil filters. He tracks his car on a regular basis and still has the original turbos,and factory spec compression on all 6 cylinders. Oil temp,I have no idea. I know his car is completely stock and unmodified. I`ve heard of several people who`ve spun bearings tracking their car on M1 10W30. M1 15W50 is pretty popular with the track guys,as is Amsoil 20W50.
From what I`ve been told,the USDM models came factory filled with Pennzoil dino fluids (engine,tranny,and rear differential).
From what I`ve been told,the USDM models came factory filled with Pennzoil dino fluids (engine,tranny,and rear differential).
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I don't know how useful that data is for me considering so many variables between driver, course layout, oil temps, power levels etc. I know I heard the rod knock going around the long sweeping left hand turn on the carousel section of Monticello.
What road course(s) do these guys drive at? Any more info on the guy spinning a bearing? Is his Z TT or NA?
What road course(s) do these guys drive at? Any more info on the guy spinning a bearing? Is his Z TT or NA?
Somebody has to sell an increased capacity/trap door oil pan for these things so the pickup doesn't get uncovered. If not, somebody needs to design one and get it into production...there is money to be made.
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How much oil do you put in your Z? Some say it holds something like 3.5 and others 4.5. I have to put an even 4.5 to bring the level up to the top of the cross hatch marks on the stick. I had a guy (Z-Doc) tell me if you race or do alot of extended highway runs to put an even 5 quarts in our cars.
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For regular oil changes I put 4quarts which gets to a little above half on the cross hatch marks. For that track day I added a little less than 1/2quart. Too much oil promotes foaming because of the crank counterweights battering the oil up, I believe Dr.Kuah from SPL parts noticed this effect in his data logging in his earlier experience pre-accusump.
I really wonder how Nissan designed the lubrication system on the newer Z33 or Z34's any differently, I see plenty of Z33's with R-compounds racing with no big issues. I know the major difference is the sump capacity. The Z32 really has it tight down there.
I really wonder how Nissan designed the lubrication system on the newer Z33 or Z34's any differently, I see plenty of Z33's with R-compounds racing with no big issues. I know the major difference is the sump capacity. The Z32 really has it tight down there.
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