My new oil cooler/warmer setup

[supton]

Originally Posted by zorobabel

Originally Posted by Avery4

Unrelated question- When I do an oil change, what would you do about the oil in the cooler and in the lines? I'm thinking I will fire the engine for a second with the filter off after I change the oil before screwing the new filter on to flush any old oil out of the cooler and lines. I may even try modifying an old filter to screw on before firing it to direct the oil into my drain bucket instead of all over my garage floor. Unless you have a better idea?

You could install a 3 way fitting with a removable plug at a low point in the oil hose. Or attach a vacuum pump, or regular pump to the filter mount to clear the oil hoses. Or if you could possibly insert a small hose in the oil hose, vacuum the oil out. The KISS option is to just leave the oil in the hose alone.

I vote KISS and ignore. Are you going to run the oil until it's chunky, or until it still has life left but it feels like time? If you're changing with "lots" of life left, then a little bit left behind won't hurt anything. There's always some left behind inside the engine.

 

[Avery4]

Originally Posted by zorobabel

Originally Posted by Avery4

Unrelated question- When I do an oil change, what would you do about the oil in the cooler and in the lines? I'm thinking I will fire the engine for a second with the filter off after I change the oil before screwing the new filter on to flush any old oil out of the cooler and lines. I may even try modifying an old filter to screw on before firing it to direct the oil into my drain bucket instead of all over my garage floor. Unless you have a better idea?

You could install a 3 way fitting with a removable plug at a low point in the oil hose. Or attach a vacuum pump, or regular pump to the filter mount to clear the oil hoses. Or if you could possibly insert a small hose in the oil hose, vacuum the oil out. The KISS option is to just leave the oil in the hose alone.

Thank you. To be clear, the oil in the hoses isn't what I'm worried about, the oil in the cooler is. And I couldn't drain the cooler with a drain plug in the hose because the fittings on it are pointing up. I think my best bet would be to start it for a second with the filter off so the oil pump pushes clean oil through the cooler to flush any old oil out. Easy, quick, and doesn't run the risk of creating leaks like disconnecting lines and such could. Realistically 1/2 or 3/4 quart of old oil probably wouldn't make any difference as often as I change it though.

 

[zorobabel]

For some reason I was picturing the cooler with the fittings pointing down. Starting the engine with the filter off could be very messy, and I would not feel good about running the engine with no oil flow.

 

[Avery4]

Originally Posted by zorobabel

For some reason I was picturing the cooler with the fittings pointing down. Starting the engine with the filter off could be very messy, and I would not feel good about running the engine with no oil flow.

Thanks. I agree that starting the engine with the filter off could get very messy, which is why I'm thinking about how I can modify an old oil filter to direct the oil into my bucket to prevent a mess. As for running the engine without oil flow, I would probably only need to run it for 1-2 seconds to flush the old oil out, which isn't much more than the time it takes to fill an empty filter. But then the question becomes whether 1-2 seconds without oil flow is more harmful than a bit of used oil getting left in the system. The other option is to disable the fuel and crank the engine over to push clean oil through the cooler rather than actually starting it. The other benefit to doing it this way is I'm not as likely to make as big of a mess since the oil won't be spraying out as fast and I can stop as soon as I see clean oil, so I won't waste much new oil. I will probably try this method first and only start the engine if the oil isn't flowing out at a decent rate cranking the engine over.

 

[il_signore97]

Originally Posted by Avery4

Originally Posted by zorobabel

For some reason I was picturing the cooler with the fittings pointing down. Starting the engine with the filter off could be very messy, and I would not feel good about running the engine with no oil flow.

Thanks. I agree that starting the engine with the filter off could get very messy, which is why I'm thinking about how I can modify an old oil filter to direct the oil into my bucket to prevent a mess. As for running the engine without oil flow, I would probably only need to run it for 1-2 seconds to flush the old oil out, which isn't much more than the time it takes to fill an empty filter. But then the question becomes whether 1-2 seconds without oil flow is more harmful than a bit of used oil getting left in the system. The other option is to disable the fuel and crank the engine over to push clean oil through the cooler rather than actually starting it. The other benefit to doing it this way is I'm not as likely to make as big of a mess since the oil won't be spraying out as fast and I can stop as soon as I see clean oil, so I won't waste much new oil. I will probably try this method first and only start the engine if the oil isn't flowing out at a decent rate cranking the engine over.

I actually ran this very same setup on my brother's old Pontiac Vibe 1.8L 1ZZ-FE Toyota engine that we supercharged. We had a blower on it that made an extra 70 HP or thereabouts, and we also used it to tow a trailer, so I wanted to ensure that the oil was kept at the right temperature no matter how hard we were beating on it. I had almost the exact same braised plate heat exchanger plumbed to the filter adapter on the oil side and to the heater circuit on the coolant side. Worked very well for its purpose. But now to answer your question: Don't bother starting the car with no filter on. What a disaster that will be, and what a complete waste it is as well. You will not be doing the engine any good by trying to drain a few extra ounces of oil from the cooler and lines. Honestly, just change the oil as normal and be happy. My experience with this setup was great. We ran this thing for years and years before my brother decided to get rid of the car and upgrade, supercharged and all, with zero issues. We changed the oil every 10,000 km, did not ever try to drain the extra old oil out or anything like that, and never worried about it. In all honesty, there is old oil left in the engine that can never be drained in every car, and no one worries about that either. So my vote from experience is to enjoy your new setup and don't risk running the engine without a filter. Not worth it at all and nothing material to gain from it.

 

[Avery4]

Originally Posted by il_signore97

Originally Posted by Avery4

Originally Posted by zorobabel

For some reason I was picturing the cooler with the fittings pointing down. Starting the engine with the filter off could be very messy, and I would not feel good about running the engine with no oil flow.

Thanks. I agree that starting the engine with the filter off could get very messy, which is why I'm thinking about how I can modify an old oil filter to direct the oil into my bucket to prevent a mess. As for running the engine without oil flow, I would probably only need to run it for 1-2 seconds to flush the old oil out, which isn't much more than the time it takes to fill an empty filter. But then the question becomes whether 1-2 seconds without oil flow is more harmful than a bit of used oil getting left in the system. The other option is to disable the fuel and crank the engine over to push clean oil through the cooler rather than actually starting it. The other benefit to doing it this way is I'm not as likely to make as big of a mess since the oil won't be spraying out as fast and I can stop as soon as I see clean oil, so I won't waste much new oil. I will probably try this method first and only start the engine if the oil isn't flowing out at a decent rate cranking the engine over.

I actually ran this very same setup on my brother's old Pontiac Vibe 1.8L 1ZZ-FE Toyota engine that we supercharged. We had a blower on it that made an extra 70 HP or thereabouts, and we also used it to tow a trailer, so I wanted to ensure that the oil was kept at the right temperature no matter how hard we were beating on it. I had almost the exact same braised plate heat exchanger plumbed to the filter adapter on the oil side and to the heater circuit on the coolant side. Worked very well for its purpose. But now to answer your question: Don't bother starting the car with no filter on. What a disaster that will be, and what a complete waste it is as well. You will not be doing the engine any good by trying to drain a few extra ounces of oil from the cooler and lines. Honestly, just change the oil as normal and be happy. My experience with this setup was great. We ran this thing for years and years before my brother decided to get rid of the car and upgrade, supercharged and all, with zero issues. We changed the oil every 10,000 km, did not ever try to drain the extra old oil out or anything like that, and never worried about it. In all honesty, there is old oil left in the engine that can never be drained in every car, and no one worries about that either. So my vote from experience is to enjoy your new setup and don't risk running the engine without a filter. Not worth it at all and nothing material to gain from it.

Cool, thanks for the info! I'm glad to hear that this setup worked well for you too. I'm thinking that as often as I change the oil (every 4K miles), whatever negative effect 1/2 quart of old oil remaining in the cooler will be way offset by the benefit of helping the oil warm up so much quicker and keeping it cooler in the summer. Like I said, installing this heat exchanger setup eliminated the condensation problem I was having in the oil because it now heats up quick enough to evaporate moisture out of the oil, even on relatively short trips. So either way I think it is a good upgrade as far as engine longevity is concerned.

 

[Imp4]

Only on BITOG would someone start their engine with no oil in it and no oil filter on in order to reduce wear on their engine.

 

[Avery4]

In my opinion someone should make an aftermarket device like this. A good size heat exchanger like the one I used with 10AN fittings on one side and 5/8 or 3/4 hose barbs on the other side, or just female threads for fittings and sell it as an oil heater/cooler for a decent price. That would be nice because it would be much less bulky without having to adapt the fittings to something that would be usable in an automotive application and would have less points of failure. On the oil side, I had to use a 3/4 NPT coupler to adapt the male side of the heat exchanger to female so I could screw in a 3/4 NPT to 10AN adapter. And on the coolant side, I had to use a 3/4 to 1/2 inch NPT adaptor to adapt the male threads on the heat exchanger to female 1/2 inch threads so I could screw a 1/2 NPT to 5/8 hose barb adapter into that. The adaptor fittings I ended up needing to use ended up being about as tall as the heat exchanger itself. This wasn't a problem in my application where I mounted it, but it would be a problem in a lot of applications. The automotive heat exchangers I found were insanely expensive and not what I needed. I found oil coolers that go in the radiator hose, but that isn't what I was looking for since I wanted something that would heat the oil up also, so that type wouldn't have worked for me since coolant doesn't flow through the rad since the engine heats up and the thermostat opens. Not to mention costing several hundred dollars more than my setup. If someone made the heat exchanger I described above and sold it for a reasonable price they would probably make a fortune!

 

[Avery4]

I have an update. Now that the whether is warming up, the oil seems to run a couple degrees warmer than it did during the winter. During the winter the oil seemed to run a couple degrees below coolant temp, but on a hotter day it seems to run a couple degrees above coolant temp. A few days ago it was driving in about 85 degree weather with the AC on and the oil was running at around 185-186 driving down the highway going 70 at 3k RPM with a coolant temp of 182-186 degrees. During the winter the oil typically ran between about 177 and 181 under those same conditions, obviously minus AC. I will report back when it gets hot out, but I don't expect oil temp to increase a whole lot. In my opinion these are great results! The oil warms up quickly and stays cool, exactly what my goal was!

 

[SHOZ]

My Ford Taurus SHOs had oil filter heater/coolers on them. Lincolns come with them too. Most Hyundai sport models have them too. Nice low profile. I put one of the Ford ones on my Gen Coupe 2L turbo. It was quite the jury rig as the cooler was too thick to use the OE filter as it hung down too low. I went to a remote mount and finally a really slim but wide oil filter. But it worked great. I had to modify the water pump per the way Hyundai feeds the cooler but that was easy. I took it off as I didn't use the car in winter and really did not have a problem with too high of oil temps in the summer. I drove it in the winter last year as no snow. And the oil ran cold around 160F-180F. The engine has an oil cooling channel on the front timing cover that feeds oil down an S shaped internal channel forcing the oil against the front of the cover. I covered this in insulating tape and it helped a bit. I need to get a Hyundai cooler/heater and do it again. They are not very expensive aftermarket and around $75 new OE.

 

[TurboTravis]

Originally Posted by Donald

Originally Posted by madRiver

Originally Posted by tcp71

A 2005 civic doesn't suffer from fuel dilution, being port injected and non turbo, nor have heat related slugging issues. This is a fun project, but won't make a lick of difference to the engine's longevity

+1

It's already made it to 15 years without an oil cooler.

Totally agree with you guys. I am sure it was fun and a learning experience for the OP to complete this project, but in reality all it has done is added more places that could leak fluids.

 

[Avery4]

Originally Posted by SHOZ

My Ford Taurus SHOs had oil filter heater/coolers on them. Lincolns come with them too. Most Hyundai sport models have them too. Nice low profile. I put one of the Ford ones on my Gen Coupe 2L turbo. It was quite the jury rig as the cooler was too thick to use the OE filter as it hung down too low. I went to a remote mount and finally a really slim but wide oil filter. But it worked great. I had to modify the water pump per the way Hyundai feeds the cooler but that was easy. I took it off as I didn't use the car in winter and really did not have a problem with too high of oil temps in the summer. I drove it in the winter last year as no snow. And the oil ran cold around 160F-180F. The engine has an oil cooling channel on the front timing cover that feeds oil down an S shaped internal channel forcing the oil against the front of the cover. I covered this in insulating tape and it helped a bit. I need to get a Hyundai cooler/heater and do it again. They are not very expensive aftermarket and around $75 new OE.

Interesting, thanks for sharing! I thought about trying an OEM style cooler that goes between the filter and the block to keep things simple and cheap, but there are only a few OEM Honda units that would have worked for me- The early 90s Integra GSR, the 00-01 Integra Type R and the 92-95 Civic VX, none of which are easy to find are therefore very expensive. There may have been units for other cars that may have worked, but I couldn't find one that looked like it would work. I also question how effective these are due to their small size. I found a video on Youtube where a guy did a temp comparison on his Subaru BRZ with and without the cooler and it only made a couple degrees of difference, and that cooler was pretty large for an OEM style unit. Surely it is better than nothing, but if I was going to do this at all I wanted something I knew would make a large difference.

 

[SHOZ]

The Hyundai ones should bolt right on. Same size screw on filter I believe. Aftermarket they are pretty cheap on eBay. They do heat up the oil faster on a cold engine. Cuts the time in half I'd say. Not so much a cooler as equalizer.

 

[Avery4]

Originally Posted by SHOZ

The Hyundai ones should bolt right on. Same size screw on filter I believe. Aftermarket they are pretty cheap on eBay. They do heat up the oil faster on a cold engine. Cuts the time in half I'd say. Not so much a cooler as equalizer.

When I looked at the Hyundai oil coolers the threaded piece in the center didn't look like it would screw into my block, but it's hard to tell from the pictures.

 

[SHOZ]

Originally Posted by Avery4

Originally Posted by SHOZ

The Hyundai ones should bolt right on. Same size screw on filter I believe. Aftermarket they are pretty cheap on eBay. They do heat up the oil faster on a cold engine. Cuts the time in half I'd say. Not so much a cooler as equalizer.

When I looked at the Hyundai oil coolers the threaded piece in the center didn't look like it would screw into my block, but it's hard to tell from the pictures.

Yes you have to see what the OE thread is going into the filter adapter. Hyundai is the same 20-1.5mm on both ends.

 

[Avery4]

Originally Posted by SHOZ

Originally Posted by Avery4

Originally Posted by SHOZ

The Hyundai ones should bolt right on. Same size screw on filter I believe. Aftermarket they are pretty cheap on eBay. They do heat up the oil faster on a cold engine. Cuts the time in half I'd say. Not so much a cooler as equalizer.

When I looked at the Hyundai oil coolers the threaded piece in the center didn't look like it would screw into my block, but it's hard to tell from the pictures.

Yes you have to see what the OE thread is going into the filter adapter. Hyundai is the same 20-1.5mm on both ends.

That wouldn't work for me then, my filter stud is bigger on the engine block side than on the filter side.

 

[Avery4]

This setup is still working quite well, but I thought of another possible concern. Since my oil cooler has no bypass valve like the OEM cooler setups do, oil flow would be significantly reduced or possibly completely blocked if the cooler plugged up over time. How much of a concern is this? I wouldn't think it would be much of a concern since I always change my oil every 4-5K miles and use good quality synthetic oil and a good filter, I think the only real way the cooler would get plugged up is on a seriously neglected engine that is run on crappy oil that isn't changed regularly.

 

[alcyon]

This setup is still working quite well, but I thought of another possible concern. Since my oil cooler has no bypass valve like the OEM cooler setups do, oil flow would be significantly reduced or possibly completely blocked if the cooler plugged up over time. How much of a concern is this? I wouldn't think it would be much of a concern since I always change my oil every 4-5K miles and use good quality synthetic oil and a good filter, I think the only real way the cooler would get plugged up is on a seriously neglected engine that is run on crappy oil that isn't changed regularly.

My car comes with this system from the factory. 32 years on, no blockage at all.

 

[Avery4]

My car comes with this system from the factory. 32 years on, no blockage at all.

Cool, thanks. Most of the OEM coolers that I have seen are either only partial flow or have some type of bypass valve in the system to allow oil to keep flowing if the cooler gets plugged up. I doubt that the oil cooler would ever get plugged on any reasonably well maintained vehicle, but the manufacturers need to cover their asses anyways.

 

[SOHCman]

I just got rid of a similar contraption that comes factory on old F250s because they eventually rot through internally and mix the coolant with the oil.