My Grandpa REFUSES to own ANY Toyotas....

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: css9450
Originally Posted By: Mykl

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but it might be worth mentioning that the Camry is frequently the most "American" car in terms of where they source their parts, and that it's built in Kentucky.


If you're talking parts content, other cars have a higher domestic content than the Camry, including Toyota's own Sienna minivan. Camry only gets the nod primarily due to the Cars.com study which ranks it as #1 based on sales.



I guess the articles I read specifying that the Camry had been at the top at various points over the last teen years due to parts content were incorrect.

 

[asiancivicmaniac]

Between my parents and I, we have 4 Japanese cars in our family. Although one is really a Ford built minivan with a Nissan drivetrain and badge. I don't see myself getting an American branded car in the near future because they don't appeal to me.

I'm going to say let your grandfather get what he wants. As long as he's not keeping you from getting what you want, it's not any of your business.

 

[PF52]

Originally Posted By: Mykl


I guess the articles I read specifying that the Camry had been at the top at various points over the last teen years due to parts content were incorrect.


Do they post percentages? I've read articles listing the Camry as anywhere between 68% and 90%.

The confusion stems from the cars.com rankings. For four years in a row, they listed Camry as #1. But here's the criteria they used:

"What Are the Top American-Made Cars?
Cars.com's American-Made Index rates vehicles built and bought in the U.S. Factors include where the car's parts come from, whether the car is assembled in the U.S. and sales."

I understand why they use sales as a factor, but we have to remember, its fuzzy math. A car with 70% domestic content would rank higher than one with 75% domestic content, if the former outsells the latter by a large margin.

I suppose you can interpret it whatever way you want.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: css9450

Do they post percentages? I've read articles listing the Camry as anywhere between 68% and 90%.

The confusion stems from the cars.com rankings. For four years in a row, they listed Camry as #1. But here's the criteria they used:

"What Are the Top American-Made Cars?
Cars.com's American-Made Index rates vehicles built and bought in the U.S. Factors include where the car's parts come from, whether the car is assembled in the U.S. and sales."

I understand why they use sales as a factor, but we have to remember, its fuzzy math. A car with 70% domestic content would rank higher than one with 75% domestic content, if the former outsells the latter by a large margin.

I suppose you can interpret it whatever way you want.


To be honest, I think we're splitting hairs here, particularly in light of the fuzzy math involved. I don't recall the specifics of the articles I've read anyway, it's been a while.

But I think we can both agree that it's an American assembled vehicle with a high percentage of domestically sourced parts.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
He says people his age can't drive them, because of the war.


I respect Grandpa's opinion of Toyota and the reasons he doesn't choose to drive one, but his statement that people his age can't drive them isn't factually accurate. It may be that nobody he knows his own age drive them, but one of Toyota's (and Lexus') corporate goals over the past decade or two is to REDUCE the average age of owners (thus the introduction of Scion, etc). In truth, there are a lot of folks your Grandpa's age who drive Toyotas. More than Toyota apparently prefers, actually.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: wemay
I wonder if folks of that era are aware of the controversy regarding Henry Ford possibly being a Nazi sympathizer and antisemite.

I wouldn't try to convince him. He's set in his ways and has lived a different reality than we have read. Times were very different then.

Henry Ford WAS an antisemite. So were many others at the time, it was not uncommon. And before the Nazi's started taking over Europe and committing genocide, yes, he had talked to Hitler, who had sent him a letter commending him on his book "The American Jew" and admired his ability to build Ford Motor Company into what it was.

When WWII reached North America, Ford took no time getting behind the war effort and creating Willow Run, the largest manufacturer of bombers for the war.

I think we've all conversed with people that we didn't know who they were and what they were truly about. And being a bigoted and opinionated old man didn't make Henry Ford an advocate of genocide. He had his opinions, ones that were, as hard as it is to admit for many, popular at the time. It is what it is. People love to paint him as a Nazi and all kinds of wonderful things but the odds are that many of our grandparents shared the same opinion as Ford, yet how many of them got behind the war effort? Exactly. His contribution; the contribution of Ford Motor Company was immense. A bigoted man with a dated and prejudiced opinion perhaps, but a Nazi he was not.

That's my opinion on the matter based on the material I've read and the fact that I had prejudiced grandparents that talked more or less just like Ford did. My grandfather served and put his life on the line (and he is of German heritage) so that folks like us can be having this talk today. Sounds like the OP is in the same boat. I never even dreamed of trying to change my grandfather's mind. The horrors he saw, what would be the point? I was just glad that he made it home. He was tail gunner for a time and he could very well have ended up dead.

 

[Mykl]

As hard as we try to relate to people like the OP's grandfather, there's no way we could actually be really impacted by those experiences. It always feels to me like the best way to handle it is to understand that you may never understand, and just let it be.

 

[morepwr]

If the camry is the most American car built, then I just realized why so many people dislike American cars!

 

[Cujet]

I don't worry about brand or country of origin. I prefer to attempt to purchase quality (does not always work) .

However, up until the 1980's and even early 1990's, the USA and Japan still had open animosity in the aviation world. Air traffic control would regularly keep American aircraft at very low altitudes during ocean crossings. The reason was simple: force American aircraft to consume more fuel, some of which did not have enough additional fuel capacity to "make it" at low altitudes.

We'd argue with the Japanese on a regular basis, as the birds we flew were not the most efficient. The reasoning was always the same. Animosity from WW-II.

I'm sure many of those guys are gone now. But it seems your grandfather remembers.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
..because of Japan bombing Perl Harbor, and killing all those people, it also took 8 months of his freedom away in the service preparing to fight in the Pacific.


You forgot about the Bataan Death March:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL

How can I convince him that Toyotas are as American as GM Impalas? He is open minded.


They are not, so you can't. And it's not like a Toyota or Honda is any better than a Ford anyway.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx

They are not, so you can't.


Except for when they aren't. Like the Fiesta that's seemingly built in every country other than the United States, or the Mexican Fusion, or the Canadian Edge, or the Canadian Flex.

Yeah, those cars are more American than the Texas built Tundra.

Ford builds a good car, and credit to them for keeping a fair amount of manufacturing in the United States. But they import a lot of product.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: Mykl
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx

They are not, so you can't.


Except for when they aren't. Like the Fiesta that's seemingly built in every country other than the United States, or the Mexican Fusion, or the Canadian Edge, or the Canadian Flex.


I won't buy a car made in Mexico either. I have no issues with Canadian cars.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
How can I convince him that Toyotas are as American as GM Impalas?


Even if you buy a Toyota that's assembled in USA, it's still money leaving the country. A lot of people (in Japan) designed that car, and the profits go to Japan (and not taxed in the US before they leave much either).

 

[chrisri]

What would your Grandpa think about this? Ford and GM were building trucks for Werhmacht.

http://www.rationalrevolution.net/war/american_supporters_of_the_europ.htm

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
I won't buy a car made in Mexico either. I have no issues with Canadian cars.


Yeah, I wouldn't say something is more or less desirable just because it was built somewhere else. I don't much care. Just give me the best product for the right price. If that product is from Canada, then I shall salute our friends to the north with my money.

 

[Mykl]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Even if you buy a Toyota that's assembled in USA, it's still money leaving the country. A lot of people (in Japan) designed that car, and the profits go to Japan (and not taxed in the US before they leave much either).


Right, but how about the investment dollars flowing in? Minus tax incentives they're still spending a ton of money to build manufacturing capability in the US. That benefits everybody from construction workers to the line workers themselves.

Also, the profit doesn't just flow back to the Japan. Just look at Chrysler/Dodge, who is essentially owned/controlled/whatever by an Italian company that relocated to Great Britain. Where do those profits flow?

 

[chestand]

When the emotion train pulls into the station, the logic train is the first one out. And no amount of logic, no matter how well presented as a point of view is going to change the mind of someone who's [censored] bent on believing as they do based on emotion.

In WWII, the Japanese were for most Americans easier to hate than the Germans. They didn't look like us. They were from the "Orient". They possessed a fanatical devotion to the emperor and the cause that was unknown to the western mind.

The fact that they were bombed back to the stone age 70 years ago and grew into the industrial machine they've become impresses me.

 

[MCompact]

I need to add at least one Italian car to my fleet so I'll have a true Axis Collection...

 

[threeputtpar]

Just respect your grandfather's opinion and let him drive what he wants. Or maybe you're pushing him into what you want to drive when he departs this world and it gets passed on down to you?

Or maybe your gramps is just giving you that line because Jan doesn't float his boat?

 

[gman2304]

Steer him towards the new Regal turbo. Us old folks love Buicks and you won't be embarrased to ride with him.