The British burned down the White House in 1812 but somehow we became good friends and fought side by side 100 years later.
Time heals all wounds.
Time heals all wounds.
My Grandpa REFUSES to own ANY Toyotas....
- Thread starter Vern_in_IL
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Growing up, I always liked the look of the Toyota 4x4 pickup (think of the black one Marty had in Back to the Future, that was my dream truck as a kid). My dad would always look for the rusted Toyota truck heaps on the road and point them out to me as an example of Japanese build quality (and there were a LOT). Never once did he mention a war or anything in regards to national pride.
Then the 90's came and Toyota started making reliable cars.
I'm still not a fan of Toyota trucks, granted, I'd own a decent condition 80's model with some modern upgrades in a heartbeat. But the Tundra trucks have never appealed to me.
The only "Japanese" truck I've ever been impressed by is the Titan. Say what you want about it, but it's interior quality trumped anything built domestically up until 2009 or so.
Then the 90's came and Toyota started making reliable cars.
I'm still not a fan of Toyota trucks, granted, I'd own a decent condition 80's model with some modern upgrades in a heartbeat. But the Tundra trucks have never appealed to me.
The only "Japanese" truck I've ever been impressed by is the Titan. Say what you want about it, but it's interior quality trumped anything built domestically up until 2009 or so.
Originally Posted By: 1999nick
I am 78 years old. I can remember WWII. The Japanese got us at Pearl Harbor, but we got our revenge many times over before the war was over. We burned down almost every city in Japan, and Killed more Japanese in one particular B-29 raid on Tokyo than we lost in the whole war, including our losses against Germany.
More than 100,000 Japanese civilians was killed in that bomb raid alone, and only nuclear bombs ever dropped on any city ever were on Japanese soil, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I am 78 years old. I can remember WWII. The Japanese got us at Pearl Harbor, but we got our revenge many times over before the war was over. We burned down almost every city in Japan, and Killed more Japanese in one particular B-29 raid on Tokyo than we lost in the whole war, including our losses against Germany.
More than 100,000 Japanese civilians was killed in that bomb raid alone, and only nuclear bombs ever dropped on any city ever were on Japanese soil, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Originally Posted By: oilpsi2high
There is no convincing people like your grandfather.
They are NOT as American as an Impala. It might be pieced together in our country but Toyota is a Japanese-based company, who designs Japanese vehicles with Japanese-paid engineers using parts made in Japan.
What do you like better, foreign company has design center, testing facility, manufacture/assembly plant in America using majority of parts made in America by American companies or American company shift production plant to foreign countries and import those vehicles back to America to make extra profit ?
There is no convincing people like your grandfather.
They are NOT as American as an Impala. It might be pieced together in our country but Toyota is a Japanese-based company, who designs Japanese vehicles with Japanese-paid engineers using parts made in Japan.
What do you like better, foreign company has design center, testing facility, manufacture/assembly plant in America using majority of parts made in America by American companies or American company shift production plant to foreign countries and import those vehicles back to America to make extra profit ?
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Let him buy what he wants, it's his car. This whole debate about American cars being less American because they have a couple plants in Mexico is insane - the Mexican people buy American cars. How many GM and Fords do you see on the streets of Tokyo?
Besides GM and Ford have very few plants in Mexico, a huge majority are in the US. My GM was built in Michigan.
The streets in Japanese cities are very narrow, Detroit Big 3 tried to import left hand drive giant cars into a country that drive on the left with tiny streets .
If Japanese companies try to sell right hand drive micro cars with engine displacement of less than 0.6L in America do you think many people will buy those cars ?
Let him buy what he wants, it's his car. This whole debate about American cars being less American because they have a couple plants in Mexico is insane - the Mexican people buy American cars. How many GM and Fords do you see on the streets of Tokyo?
Besides GM and Ford have very few plants in Mexico, a huge majority are in the US. My GM was built in Michigan.
The streets in Japanese cities are very narrow, Detroit Big 3 tried to import left hand drive giant cars into a country that drive on the left with tiny streets .
If Japanese companies try to sell right hand drive micro cars with engine displacement of less than 0.6L in America do you think many people will buy those cars ?
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
..because of Japan bombing Perl Harbor, and killing all those people, it also took 8 months of his freedom away in the service preparing to fight in the Pacific.
He says people his age can't drive them, because of the war.
How can I convince him that Toyotas are as American as GM Impalas? He is open minded.
Maybe he won't be driving an American car either:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory
How about a nice Volvo? Or did the Swedes and the Chinese wrong him somehow?
hotwheels
..because of Japan bombing Perl Harbor, and killing all those people, it also took 8 months of his freedom away in the service preparing to fight in the Pacific.
He says people his age can't drive them, because of the war.
How can I convince him that Toyotas are as American as GM Impalas? He is open minded.
Maybe he won't be driving an American car either:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_Harbor_advance-knowledge_conspiracy_theory
How about a nice Volvo? Or did the Swedes and the Chinese wrong him somehow?
hotwheels
Originally Posted By: WobblyElvis
Respect your grandfather's wishes and learn from him what you can while he's still on this earth.
Exactly
Don't spend your time with your Grandfather trying to persuade him to drive a car he doesn't want to drive.
Respect your grandfather's wishes and learn from him what you can while he's still on this earth.
Exactly
Don't spend your time with your Grandfather trying to persuade him to drive a car he doesn't want to drive.
I can understand the sentiment, but I wonder why it stops at cars? What about electronics and consumer equipment? Does this also mean no Sony/Nikon/Canon/Panasonic/Casio/Hitachi/Sharp....? How about parts? Bridgestone tyres? Nissin brakes?
I guess cars are more overt and can be seen as an outward show of brand support or loyalty.
My mother refused to buy Japanese cars for years in the 70s and 80s, because of their 'unfair' import practices that worked against the sale of British cars in Japan. However, since then she has had a Daihatsu Fourtrak and a Nissan Micra so I guess she's over it.
That said, German cars are great sellers the world over, including in the UK and countries that were invaded and occupied by the Nazis. One must try to separate the actions of a regime from the populus it governs.
I guess cars are more overt and can be seen as an outward show of brand support or loyalty.
My mother refused to buy Japanese cars for years in the 70s and 80s, because of their 'unfair' import practices that worked against the sale of British cars in Japan. However, since then she has had a Daihatsu Fourtrak and a Nissan Micra so I guess she's over it.
That said, German cars are great sellers the world over, including in the UK and countries that were invaded and occupied by the Nazis. One must try to separate the actions of a regime from the populus it governs.
Xenophobia has no place in vehicle choice, only facts, figures and the subjective experience of driving the thing
Your Grandpa probably sees Camrys built in Kentucky as an extension of this "invasion".
My neighbor, a paragon of class, got the vanity plate "ZERO" for his Mitsubishi 3000GT.
In wartime, the government nationalized all industry. We did it too. Any executive who refused would probably find himself a buck Private on the front lines. I can't fault Mitsu for their sins of 70 years ago, but your Grandpa sure earned the right. Not worth the fight.
My neighbor, a paragon of class, got the vanity plate "ZERO" for his Mitsubishi 3000GT.
In wartime, the government nationalized all industry. We did it too. Any executive who refused would probably find himself a buck Private on the front lines. I can't fault Mitsu for their sins of 70 years ago, but your Grandpa sure earned the right. Not worth the fight.
Grandpa's reasoning is perfectly logical. There is no telling what he experienced during the war, so the very least he deserves is respect for his opinion.
His decision so why fight a losing battle.
My parents and grandparents were the same way viv-a- vis Japan, the loathing and disdain were permanent artifacts of the war, although the attitude with respect to Germany was more ambiguous.
I recall my grandfathers and father expressing great respect, even admiration, for what they ( the Germans ) did with what they had, while having exactly zero interest in ever owning anything they made.
Germanic ancestry is pretty common around here, including in my family, a lot of German prisoners were held here, ( as were the Japanese in a pretty large internment camp, which is only now getting some recognition as a historical artifact ) and that also probably contributed to some of the ambiguity.
It didn't help much that the Honda I bought was a true POS in every sense of the word, mostly shot after a few years. Lots of I told you so's about that.
I've bought one Japanese and German car and likely will never buy another. I don't avoid Japanese or German products, but I don't seek them out, either. I've had plenty of British cars, and will probably have more, but they were certainly no saints; plenty of reasons for Americans to loathe them, probably more so than the Germans.
Oh, well.
I recall my grandfathers and father expressing great respect, even admiration, for what they ( the Germans ) did with what they had, while having exactly zero interest in ever owning anything they made.
Germanic ancestry is pretty common around here, including in my family, a lot of German prisoners were held here, ( as were the Japanese in a pretty large internment camp, which is only now getting some recognition as a historical artifact ) and that also probably contributed to some of the ambiguity.
It didn't help much that the Honda I bought was a true POS in every sense of the word, mostly shot after a few years. Lots of I told you so's about that.
I've bought one Japanese and German car and likely will never buy another. I don't avoid Japanese or German products, but I don't seek them out, either. I've had plenty of British cars, and will probably have more, but they were certainly no saints; plenty of reasons for Americans to loathe them, probably more so than the Germans.
Oh, well.
Some years ago I knew a Jewish lady whose grandfather had been in one of the Nazi camps in WWII. She said he would never own a German car -- and in fact she was a little disturbed by riding in my classic 420SEL herself. Not for us to judge, I guess.
ls1mike
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I am member of the US Submarine Vets. Not many WWII guys left. In my chapter there are 2 they have some great stories, but don't feel the same way about the Japanese as most do here.
The man reason you can't convince me is I just don't like any of their offerings, that is not to say they are bad I just don't like them.
Plus, and you can laugh it you want but this was serious, I am still a bit upset with Toshiba and there underhanded dealing with the Soviets and Submarine screws. While it did not affect much of anyone who post here at BITOG it did affect a bunch of my friends and I. So I am still a bit bitter about it.
Submarine Screws/props
The man reason you can't convince me is I just don't like any of their offerings, that is not to say they are bad I just don't like them.
Plus, and you can laugh it you want but this was serious, I am still a bit upset with Toshiba and there underhanded dealing with the Soviets and Submarine screws. While it did not affect much of anyone who post here at BITOG it did affect a bunch of my friends and I. So I am still a bit bitter about it.
Submarine Screws/props
If we could step into a time machine and go back 74 years we would have a better understanding of what the greatest generation experienced. My BIL served in the European theater and would never go to the beach, though he lived only 3 hours away.
Originally Posted By: Vern_in_IL
..because of Japan bombing Perl Harbor, and killing all those people, it also took 8 months of his freedom away in the service preparing to fight in the Pacific.
He says people his age can't drive them, because of the war.
How can I convince him that Toyotas are as American as GM Impalas? He is open minded.
If I had that experience I might feel the same way.
I haven't read the rest of the thread, but it might be worth mentioning that the Camry is frequently the most "American" car in terms of where they source their parts, and that it's built in Kentucky.
..because of Japan bombing Perl Harbor, and killing all those people, it also took 8 months of his freedom away in the service preparing to fight in the Pacific.
He says people his age can't drive them, because of the war.
How can I convince him that Toyotas are as American as GM Impalas? He is open minded.
If I had that experience I might feel the same way.
I haven't read the rest of the thread, but it might be worth mentioning that the Camry is frequently the most "American" car in terms of where they source their parts, and that it's built in Kentucky.
Originally Posted By: bvance554
True.... but you could say they brought it upon themselves.
Sure, but if I'm going to try to be objective, the Japanese were specifically targeting a military installation at Pearl Harbor, while we were fire bombing cities because technological limitations meant that this was the most precise way to target war industries.
Of course, Japan was still guilty of a number of other atrocities elsewhere. Pretty bad ones (this is an understatement). I wouldn't even put it past them to perform the same types of raids against US cities had they the ability to do so.
I guess the point is that even if we don't like to talk about it, we aren't completely innocent. Had we actually lost the war at that point General Curtis LeMay and Carl Spaatz most certainly would have been tried for war crimes.
I'm not passing judgment because it was a complicated time. I'm just saying.
True.... but you could say they brought it upon themselves.
Sure, but if I'm going to try to be objective, the Japanese were specifically targeting a military installation at Pearl Harbor, while we were fire bombing cities because technological limitations meant that this was the most precise way to target war industries.
Of course, Japan was still guilty of a number of other atrocities elsewhere. Pretty bad ones (this is an understatement). I wouldn't even put it past them to perform the same types of raids against US cities had they the ability to do so.
I guess the point is that even if we don't like to talk about it, we aren't completely innocent. Had we actually lost the war at that point General Curtis LeMay and Carl Spaatz most certainly would have been tried for war crimes.
I'm not passing judgment because it was a complicated time. I'm just saying.
Originally Posted By: Mykl
I haven't read the rest of the thread, but it might be worth mentioning that the Camry is frequently the most "American" car in terms of where they source their parts, and that it's built in Kentucky.
If you're talking parts content, other cars have a higher domestic content than the Camry, including Toyota's own Sienna minivan. Camry only gets the nod primarily due to the Cars.com study which ranks it as #1 based on sales.
I haven't read the rest of the thread, but it might be worth mentioning that the Camry is frequently the most "American" car in terms of where they source their parts, and that it's built in Kentucky.
If you're talking parts content, other cars have a higher domestic content than the Camry, including Toyota's own Sienna minivan. Camry only gets the nod primarily due to the Cars.com study which ranks it as #1 based on sales.
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