My 2019 Nissan with timing chain issues

[JTK]

I am sick over this. I've been changing my oil/filter every 3000-3500mi on this GDI VQ35DD since I bought our 2019 Pathfinder used in 2019 w/25K miles on it. I've been active on BITOG with anything Nissan, CVT and VQ35DD related and a big proponent of frequent engine oil changes, CVT fluid changes, T-case, rear diff fluid changes, etc.

A week back at ~103K miles, I noticed our Pathfinder making a metallic rattle, scraping, chirping noise on cold start. Sounds like marbles in a tin can. My heart sank. I quickly popped the hood for a listen, but the noise gradually faded away. On the next cold start I was sure to be ready with the hood up. Same noise. I listened carefully with my long screwdriver calibrated listening device and the noise seemed to be more from the alternator, a/c compressor or idler/tensioner. The noise is also much louder through the front right wheel well than from up top in the engine bay.

Pressed for time the whole week, I was able to get in a few days later at a local auto repair shop that I use and trust. He called me with the dreaded news at the end of the day that the noise is coming from under the timing cover. It's a possible chain, guide or tensioner problem. He doesn't want to take on this type of job, but he would try to fit me in if I chose to. This is a 1-2 man, very busy shop, that does excellent work reasonably. He quotes via Mitchell. His rough estimate was about $2150, baring no other issues in the process.

Knowing what I know about this particular 2017+ engine, having been active on a Pathfinder board the past 4-5yrs, I'm not fixing this. There could be metal running through the engine and there is likely sludge built up in there regardless of my crazy amount of maintenance. I'm dumping it and running for something without a VQ35DD. This is such a shame given we love our Pathfinder. It's been totally reliable for us. At ~103K miles, it needs other things and has some other clunks and rattles at this point anyway. The risk with these engines is just too great IMO. I get it and accept that mechanical things fail, but Nissan really messed up with this specific engine. If you poke around, there's thread after thread of excessive sludging and timing chain problems with VQ35DDs, where the VQ35DE port injected version was stone reliable.

I still like Nissan products in general and still recommend them for their driving dynamics, comfort and value. I like all their 4cyl engines and love the VQ40DE and the 35DE engines. I've got the VQ38DD in my 2022 Frontier that is awesome so far. All I can do is hope it doesn't go the way of the 35DD.

 

[nickaluch]

I guess you can trade it in while it's running car it definitely has value

 

[Boomer]

My 2007 Frontier did this. It was the plastic chain guides that had worn through. Pretty simple fix at the dealer.

 

[JTK]

I guess you can trade it in while it's running car it definitely has value

This is my goal. I did some shopping the past few days and have been offered anywhere from $9500-10500 trade-in allowance at this point. I even eluded to the fact she's a bit long in the tooth and can make some noises. They couldn't care less. "It's going to auction given the miles anyway". Dealers are far shadier than you or I.

 

[JTK]

My 2007 Frontier did this. It was the plastic chain guides that had worn through. Pretty simple fix at the dealer.

It's not so simple on the R52 Pathfinder. The FSM tells you to drop the engine/cradle. I have seen threads where guys got it done with the engine in place, but it was very difficult and they weren't sure the RTV job wound up perfect. The bigger issue the sludge everyone finds when they open them up.

 

[KrisZ]

That’s how it is sometimes. Maintenance cannot prevent failures that are inherent to a bad design, they may postpone them at best.

Dump this thing while it still has some value and don’t look back. There is nothing you could’ve done to prevent it.

 

[LazyDog]

Such a shame for such a newer some what newer car!

 

[SC Maintenance]

I would honestly get a second quote from a dealer if there is one you trust. It might be just a guide or failed tensioner or something like the VVT phaser spring is sticking like the Honda 4 cylinders do? Dealer may have seen it before and be able to repair for much less without changing everything.

If you have someone tap the gas at idle does it have a wine - like a supercharger type wine - very faint and right off idle?

Either way good luck. Sorry to hear.

 

[Cujet]

What oil and viscosity?

If the chain is healthy, why not just replace the guides and tensioners? Looking at the prices of today's vehicles, even expensive repairs make sense.

As a general rule, chains do not last a long time with low viscosity oils. Many owners believe the manufacturer knows best and then find themselves surprised at oil related failures. Toyota and others are now using coated timing chain pins to reduce the wear rates with the 0W-16 and 0W-20 oils. Ford went with an immersed belt in some cases.

 

[JTK]

I would honestly get a second quote from a dealer if there is one you trust. It might be just a guide or failed tensioner or something like the VVT phaser spring is sticking like the Honda 4 cylinders do? Dealer may have seen it before and be able to repair for much less without changing everything.

If you have someone tap the gas at idle does it have a wine - like a supercharger type wine - very faint and right off idle?

Either way good luck. Sorry to hear.

Every instance I've seen of this, the dealer's only recommendation is a new engine. These engines are in excess of $12K.

The noise eventually fades a few minutes after cold start.

What oil and viscosity?

If the chain is healthy, why not just replace the guides and tensioners? Looking at the prices of today's vehicles, even expensive repairs make sense.

As a general rule, chains do not last a long time with low viscosity oils. Many owners believe the manufacturer knows best and then find themselves surprised at oil related failures. Toyota and others are now using coated timing chain pins to reduce the wear rates with the 0W-16 and 0W-20 oils. Ford went with an immersed belt in some cases.

I went with synthetic 5w30 and what I would consider mid-grade oil filters from 25K miles on. Nissan recommends 0w20 for this engine.

Again, there is no easy way to pull the timing covers on this engine. There are no inspection covers. Per the FSM, the engine has to come out of the vehicle.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

It's not so simple on the R52 Pathfinder. The FSM tells you to drop the engine/cradle. I have seen threads where guys got it done with the engine in place, but it was very difficult and they weren't sure the RTV job wound up perfect. The bigger issue the sludge everyone finds when they open them up.

Since the noise "gradually faded away" you may still be in the service limits for wear.

What are you running for a filter? I had excessive chain noise problems on my Rogue 2.5 also. There have been a lot of bad filters sold by Nissan parts - starting with their China made filters and even the Grupo Gonher made Nissan part, where we have photos of an inverted anti-drainback valve (thread link below).

I would first get a larger MP Supertech or similar in there - Maybe a factory GT-R filter if it is Nissan Japan made. Makes a BIG difference.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/nissan-15208-65foe-adbv-defect.307562/#post-5075372

 

[JTK]

Since the noise "gradually faded away" you may still be in the service limits for wear.

What are you running for a filter? I had excessive chain noise problems on my Rogue 2.5 also. There have been a lot of bad filters sold by Nissan parts - starting with their China made filters and even the Grupo Gonher made Nissan part, where we have photos of an inverted anti-drainback valve (thread link below).

I would first get a larger MP Supertech or similar in there - Maybe a factory GT-R filter if it is Nissan Japan made. Makes a BIG difference.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/nissan-15208-65foe-adbv-defect.307562/#post-5075372

It's been a long time since I ran a genuine Nissan oil filter on it. I've run Napa, Supertech, Luber-Finer, Champ, ChampXL are the ones that come to mind.

 

[tiger862]

I am sick over this. I've been changing my oil/filter every 3000-3500mi on this GDI VQ35DD since I bought our 2019 Pathfinder used in 2019 w/25K miles on it. I've been active on BITOG with anything Nissan, CVT and VQ35DD related and a big proponent of frequent engine oil changes, CVT fluid changes, T-case, rear diff fluid changes, etc.

A week back at ~103K miles, I noticed our Pathfinder making a metallic rattle, scraping, chirping noise on cold start. Sounds like marbles in a tin can. My heart sank. I quickly popped the hood for a listen, but the noise gradually faded away. On the next cold start I was sure to be ready with the hood up. Same noise. I listened carefully with my long screwdriver calibrated listening device and the noise seemed to be more from the alternator, a/c compressor or idler/tensioner. The noise is also much louder through the front right wheel well than from up top in the engine bay.

Pressed for time the whole week, I was able to get in a few days later at a local auto repair shop that I use and trust. He called me with the dreaded news at the end of the day that the noise is coming from under the timing cover. It's a possible chain, guide or tensioner problem. He doesn't want to take on this type of job, but he would try to fit me in if I chose to. This is a 1-2 man, very busy shop, that does excellent work reasonably. He quotes via Mitchell. His rough estimate was about $2150, baring no other issues in the process.

Knowing what I know about this particular 2017+ engine, having been active on a Pathfinder board the past 4-5yrs, I'm not fixing this. There could be metal running through the engine and there is likely sludge built up in there regardless of my crazy amount of maintenance. I'm dumping it and running for something without a VQ35DD. This is such a shame given we love our Pathfinder. It's been totally reliable for us. At ~103K miles, it needs other things and has some other clunks and rattles at this point anyway. The risk with these engines is just too great IMO. I get it and accept that mechanical things fail, but Nissan really messed up with this specific engine. If you poke around, there's thread after thread of excessive sludging and timing chain problems with VQ35DDs, where the VQ35DE port injected version was stone reliable.

I still like Nissan products in general and still recommend them for their driving dynamics, comfort and value. I like all their 4cyl engines and love the VQ40DE and the 35DE engines. I've got the VQ38DD in my 2022 Frontier that is awesome so far. All I can do is hope it doesn't go the way of the 35DD.

This goes to show 0-20 recommended oil vs a 30 grade oil along with shorter oil change limits makes no difference. Who knows, you could have run recommended grade and service with same failure. Design of engine is no match for different oil grades or service intervals. Just my observation.
I serviced 12 Impala with bad timing chain design for 173k and still on original timing chain.

 

[mclasser]

Sorry to hear this, OP. Sucks when we as car enthusiasts try and properly maintain our rides and stuff like this happens.

 

[KGMtech]

This sucks. I have the same engine in my QX60. I will now consider removing one of the valve covers to see if there is any sludge, despite my own hyper OCD maintenance routine.

 

[burbguy82]

I am sick over this. I've been changing my oil/filter every 3000-3500mi on this GDI VQ35DD since I bought our 2019 Pathfinder used in 2019 w/25K miles on it. I've been active on BITOG with anything Nissan, CVT and VQ35DD related and a big proponent of frequent engine oil changes, CVT fluid changes, T-case, rear diff fluid changes, etc.

A week back at ~103K miles, I noticed our Pathfinder making a metallic rattle, scraping, chirping noise on cold start. Sounds like marbles in a tin can. My heart sank. I quickly popped the hood for a listen, but the noise gradually faded away. On the next cold start I was sure to be ready with the hood up. Same noise. I listened carefully with my long screwdriver calibrated listening device and the noise seemed to be more from the alternator, a/c compressor or idler/tensioner. The noise is also much louder through the front right wheel well than from up top in the engine bay.

Pressed for time the whole week, I was able to get in a few days later at a local auto repair shop that I use and trust. He called me with the dreaded news at the end of the day that the noise is coming from under the timing cover. It's a possible chain, guide or tensioner problem. He doesn't want to take on this type of job, but he would try to fit me in if I chose to. This is a 1-2 man, very busy shop, that does excellent work reasonably. He quotes via Mitchell. His rough estimate was about $2150, baring no other issues in the process.

Knowing what I know about this particular 2017+ engine, having been active on a Pathfinder board the past 4-5yrs, I'm not fixing this. There could be metal running through the engine and there is likely sludge built up in there regardless of my crazy amount of maintenance. I'm dumping it and running for something without a VQ35DD. This is such a shame given we love our Pathfinder. It's been totally reliable for us. At ~103K miles, it needs other things and has some other clunks and rattles at this point anyway. The risk with these engines is just too great IMO. I get it and accept that mechanical things fail, but Nissan really messed up with this specific engine. If you poke around, there's thread after thread of excessive sludging and timing chain problems with VQ35DDs, where the VQ35DE port injected version was stone reliable.

I still like Nissan products in general and still recommend them for their driving dynamics, comfort and value. I like all their 4cyl engines and love the VQ40DE and the 35DE engines. I've got the VQ38DD in my 2022 Frontier that is awesome so far. All I can do is hope it doesn't go the way of the 35DD.

i would trade it in and get something else, likely not worth the repair.

 

[Cujet]

In light of the oil you used, I'd say you have a tensioner/guide problem and not an oil related, timing chain wear related problem.

 

[redhat]

You will feel better getting this thing gone. Such a shame as a 2019 I still that of a car being new that age, but wow 5 years old already. Hope the search goes well.

 

[JTK]

This sucks. I have the same engine in my QX60. I will now consider removing one of the valve covers to see if there is any sludge, despite my own hyper OCD maintenance routine.

The rear valve cover is the one most badly effected and of course the difficult one to get at. The rear valve cover has the PCV valve.

 

[KCJeep]

OP I know you’re disappointed and very understandable, but for 2100 bucks in today’s market I’d fix it and put another 50k on it. Then trade it.