My 2014 VW Jetta GLI - I can live with it

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gregoron

Still, I don't mind doing an occasional high RPM (not necessarily high speed) drive as it's actually part of my 20 minute commute. Heck if my old MK4 Jetta can handle 3200 RPM going 70 MPH in fifth gear, I think my GLI can do the same thing in fourth. I don't think the engine will explode.

I don't think it's as much about high RPM as it is about high load which is achieved through strong acceleration, regardless of RPMs.


Great, that's on my list as well. LOL.

Anyways, I did find this link which shows prolonged high RPM runs help prevent or even reduce carbon deposits on intake valves. It's an old patent application so things may have changed since then. I take it with a grain of salt.

http://www.google.com/patents/US6866031?dq=valve+coating+carbon+VW#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: stephen9666
If you love the 2.slow you could have just bought a new Jetta S. They brought back the 2.0 when they released the cheapened mk6 Jetta.

Next year they're getting rid of the 2.0 again and replacing it with a 1.4 turbo.

I'm mostly joking. I test drove a Jetta S with it and was very unimpressed, and I don't even hate the 2.0. We had one in my wife's Beetle, but it's not up to snuff with current standards


Thanks, I did test drive the 2015 Jetta S 2.0 as mentioned in my post above. I didn't like it because it was less quicker than my MK4 Jetta with the same engine and heavier chassis. VW gave this new MK6 Jetta 2.0 a wider gear ratio 5 speed manual transmission which really was meant for fuel efficiency than performance.

However, for 2016 VW will replace the 2.0 with the 1.4L TSI, a turbo-charged, direct injection, high compression engine already used in many VW's in Europe and the current Jetta Hybrid. I hope they mate it to a good manual or automatic transmission.

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: gregoron
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gregoron

Still, I don't mind doing an occasional high RPM (not necessarily high speed) drive as it's actually part of my 20 minute commute. Heck if my old MK4 Jetta can handle 3200 RPM going 70 MPH in fifth gear, I think my GLI can do the same thing in fourth. I don't think the engine will explode.

I don't think it's as much about high RPM as it is about high load which is achieved through strong acceleration, regardless of RPMs.


Great, that's on my list as well. LOL.

Anyways, I did find this link which shows prolonged high RPM runs help prevent or even reduce carbon deposits on intake valves. It's an old patent application so things may have changed since then. I take it with a grain of salt.

http://www.google.com/patents/US6866031?dq=valve+coating+carbon+VW#v=onepage&q&f=false


Sorry to quote myself, but here's the text from above link referring to the "Italian tune up":

"An additional approach for reducing the formation of carbon deposits on the intake valves 20 is to increase the intake valve temperature, at least temporarily, since, surprisingly, it was found that any carbon deposits possibly present are removed at temperatures above 380° C. To this end, the intake valve unit, which comprises, among other components, the intake valves 20 and the valve stem guide 28, is designed with means that hinder heat dissipation in such a way that increased surface temperatures of more than 380° C. develop at least in the area of the neck 68 of the intake valves 20 in at least one predetermined region of the load characteristic diagram 74 of the internal combustion engine. This is illustrated in FIG. 4. The intake valve temperature is above 380° C. in the shaded region 112 b of the characteristic diagram. At these temperatures, carbon deposits on the intake valves 20 are removed. This region 112 b of the characteristic diagram occurs, for example, at speeds over 3,000 rpm, and in that speed range. extends essentially to full load. Even if the internal combustion engine is not operated most of the time in the region 112 b during normal driving operation of a motor vehicle, nevertheless, carbon deposits that could adversely affect the operation of the internal combustion engine cannot build up, since their removal in the shaded region 112 b of the characteristic diagram occurs very quickly. For example, operation of the internal combustion engine in this region 112 b of the characteristic diagram for a period of, for example, 20 min., is sufficient to remove even a thick layer of carbon deposits. In other words, a routine expressway trip cleans the intake valves 20 sufficiently. In addition, this region of the characteristic diagram can be entered in the course of maintenance or repair work on the internal combustion engine in an automotive workshop."

 

[wemay]

Concerning IVD, lot's of theories out there...

*Using Top Tier fuel and sticking with OEM oil recomendations
*Using GrpIV oils only
*Using low SAPs or Mid SAPs
*Using low TEOST GrpIII
*Using low Noack GrpIII at OEM recommended oci
*Using low Noack GrpIII at no more than 5k ml oci
*Using GrpII at no more than 5k ml oci
*Using oils containing the least amount of calcium additives (T-GDI)


http://papers.sae.org/2014-32-0092/

http://gf-6.com/sites/default/files/Turb...ig Hurdle.pdf

http://www.pecj.or.jp/japanese/overseas/conference/pdf/conference12-19.pdf


Then again, there may no problem at all with the current generation.

 

[Nick1994]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: gregoron
I also hope that it will be worry-free for the next 5 years

Lol that GIF is a good one. I'll save that for later.

It's true though... I can't wait until I sell my car and get out of the VW world (except for air cooled).

 

[Robster]

[/quote]EXCELLENT point. Which is why i just drive normally now. I am done overthinking this stuff when my neighbors all have D.I., use bulk conventional oil, and always seem to be 1000 miles over their oci requirements....with ZERO issues. A couple of which are over 100K miles. Who's the dummy on this block.

[/quote]

Agree with Wemay. . . many people are anticipating issues with DI based on theory when real-world results aren't reflecting those issues at all. Many people are insisting that low-SAPS oils matter in DI LSPI incident reduction when in reality there's no proof. I currently use PP (high SAPS) in my turbo DI Hyundai with no issues. Most people don't care about this stuff and don't know low SAP from tree SAP.

As for the lagginess of your throttle, I'd expect if it's a widespread issue, you'll see an ECU update for your car that will address it--VW has been good in the past about addressing software problems.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: gregoron
But, hey I've got my dream car, it's a GLI, and I can live with it.

You got your dream car, yet all it sums up to is just that you can live with it? How depressing. I'd be really bummed if I dumped a lot of money on a brand new car and that's all I could say about it. The negatives that you describe, could they have been discovered during more thorough test drives? I realize this isn't always practical, but it certainly helps avoid getting stuck with something that you can just live with and not be thrilled about. And it also helps verify if that dream car in our head truly is a dream car in reality.

On the other hand, you are right that we often give up some things in order to gain others. I enjoyed driving my old A4 more than I do my current 530i. Even though the A4 was slower and had some turbo lag, it just handled better. The 530i is a more "grown up" car and has more room, but it's not as enjoyable to drive on a daily basis. But this is more of an apples to oranges comparison. In your case, one would expect a new Jetta to be all around better than an old Jetta. My wife owned an '00 Jetta GL 4-speed auto, and I remember it fondly. She sold it in 2010, and she still misses it as it was her first car.

 

[DuckRyder]

I curious about why you did not go with a 1.8t if the 2.0L "S" model was satisfactory in all but the power department.

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gregoron
But, hey I've got my dream car, it's a GLI, and I can live with it.

And it also helps verify if that dream car in our head truly is a dream car in reality.



This sums it up. I'm sure I'll grow to like my GLI when I start forgetting my previous ride

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
I curious about why you did not go with a 1.8t if the 2.0L "S" model was satisfactory in all but the power department.



It was a matter of pricing and availability. The 2014 GLI came in cheaper out the door than a 2015 1.8TSI. Plus they didn't have any 1.8 manuals in stock.

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: Robster
[/quote]EXCELLENT point. Which is why i just drive normally now. I am done overthinking this stuff when my neighbors all have D.I., use bulk conventional oil, and always seem to be 1000 miles over their oci requirements....with ZERO issues. A couple of which are over 100K miles. Who's the dummy on this block.

Agree with Wemay. . . many people are anticipating issues with DI based on theory when real-world results aren't reflecting those issues at all. Many people are insisting that low-SAPS oils matter in DI LSPI incident reduction when in reality there's no proof. I currently use PP (high SAPS) in my turbo DI Hyundai with no issues. Most people don't care about this stuff and don't know low SAP from tree SAP.

As for the lagginess of your throttle, I'd expect if it's a widespread issue, you'll see an ECU update for your car that will address it--VW has been good in the past about addressing software problems.[/quote]

------------------

There's nothing wrong with the electronic throttle of the GLI. It's just not as connected as a the cable linkage of the MK4 2.0. With the 2.0 you know that when you step on the gas pedal at a certain angle, the engine always revs at a predictable RPM quickly and consistently. With the GLI, sometimes I have to adjust how much I step on the gas pedal to match the RPM I wanted. It makes rev-matching a guessing game.

 

[Jetronic]

Any remapper worth his salt can change the drivers wish maps for you to mimic a cable operated throttle.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Any remapper worth his salt can change the drivers wish maps for you to mimic a cable operated throttle.

That's a great point. I've heard of instances where aftermarket tune made the throttle response more lively.

Although, the same was said about the GIAC chip in my old A4 1.8T, but personally I didn't think it delivered in that department.

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
Any remapper worth his salt can change the drivers wish maps for you to mimic a cable operated throttle.


I read up on this in various VW forums and there are a couple of software for it for the GTI and GLI (i.e. APR, GIAC, Sprintbooster, etc.) and some hardware solution (i.e. changing throttle position sensor). Some say you need both tunes because there is a physical dead zone on the throttle. I don't know. It just seems too complicated for me. There was nothing wrong with the throttle cable application in previous models.

Anyway, I'm getting better adjusted to the DBW throttle. It also responds differently with AC on or off, or when ESC is turned off. Again, I'm learning to live with how the ECU wants me to drive.

 

[Jetronic]

throttle operated by cable means no ESP

 

[gregoron]

This is my four month update of my relatively new GLI.

So far, I'm growing to love this car. There have been times though that I was frustrated with its lack of smoothness when shifting. However, I just adapted to it by being "one" with the car. Basically, I drive it like a video game, as pretty much most of its systems are electronically operated or electrically assisted.

The drive-by-wire throttle system was one of my main gripes. There's really no way around it other than purchasing one of those attachable electronic DBW bypass to increase throttle response. They're costly, and I thought that maybe I just need to use my foot in a passive and aggressive way. Let me explain what that means.

Upshifts are sometimes hindered by a slight rev hang when the AC is off and the engine is cold. I'd shift up a gear and the RPM doesn't drop immediately so I over-rev it when I step on the gas. Here, I become passive by not stepping on the gas as I release the clutch. I just think of it as a "feature" where the ECU matches the revs for you already so you don't need to gas it anymore.

But, my biggest gripe is downshifting. I like hearing the engine rev when I downshift. With the electronic throttle system, it's harder to do that because when you step on the gas as you're releasing the clutch, the revs are inconsistent. It's sometimes too high. or too low, too fast or too slow. So, there's really no point in matching revs.

However, by some fluke or miracle, I found out a way to beat that rev-match killer. One day, I tried to overtake a car who suddenly stopped in front of me, but I had another car behind me approaching on the lane I swerved in. I downshifted and while the clutch was on the floor, I tapped on the accelerator quickly all the way to the floor and up came the rev to the perfect RPM for the selected gear. I then just quickly released the clutch and gassed it. The shift was butter smooth and I had instant acceleration. It was heaven for that moment.

Now, I've been downshifting and rev-matching that way. Here's how I do it:

1. Let's say you're in 5th gear at 2000 RPM and you want to downshift to 4th.
2. Step on the clutch and lift up on the accelerator while shifting gear from 5th to 4th. Keep the clutch all the way down until next step.
3. Step on the accelerator all the way down quickly and let go as quickly as possible (i.e. 1 sec.).
4. Rev goes up to around 3200 RPM then quickly release the clutch. Fourth gear is engaged smoothly.
5. Step on gas again to accelerate or don't step on the gas to decelerate.

It's like double clutching but you're not stepping on the clutch again when the shift lever passes through neutral. You're just blipping the accelerator. This works best when you want to accelerate after downshifting, but it also works if you want to engine brake as well.

I've been doing it with all gears (i.e. 6 to 5, 5 to 4, 4 to 3, etc.) and it seems like the ECU is matching the revs to the ideal gear when I blip the drive by wire accelerator. Sometimes the revs would go up to 4000 from 2000 on lower gears, or 3000 from 2000 on higher gears. It's as if the ECU is limiting the revs.

Now, downshifting and rev-matching just seems easier. The other bonus is it sounds great.

I know that other models with the dual clutch (DSG) rev-matches so perhaps this feature was left behind for the manual transmission as a hidden "feature". I figured that if I'm aggressive with the gas pedal by working it throughout its range in a non-linear way, I'd increase throttle output and response time.

So, this gives me more love for this car. I do miss cable operated gas pedals, but hey, I was young enough to have had played video games and this car wants to be driven as such.

 

[BearZDefect]

Very nice update we can appreciate. And a BITOG asset. I suspect many (current or prospective) owners of current model VWs with MT will benefit.

 

[IndyIan]

With DBW it would simple to program rev matching with a manual I'd guess, its too bad you need to mat the gas to do it, but for some shifts that would be fine.
Maybe one of the tuning software guys offer a rev match option? That would be pretty cool for both up and down shifting.

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
With DBW it would simple to program rev matching with a manual I'd guess, its too bad you need to mat the gas to do it, but for some shifts that would be fine.
Maybe one of the tuning software guys offer a rev match option? That would be pretty cool for both up and down shifting.


Thanks, I did look into that remapping option and it's expensive with Sprintbooster being the popular one. I actually like doing it myself as it gives me more control of the car. It's a feeling that I want back given that electronic devices seem to be taking over my driving experience.

 

[silveravant]

Sprintbooster doesn't do anything except quicken throttle action. For a given pedal motion throttle plate opens more. If your revs hang when you depress the clutch check the clutch switch. There are 2, one for starter interlock and one for ECU input.