My 2014 VW Jetta GLI - I can live with it

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Two years ago I posted this thread in this forum:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3025489

Two months ago, I bought my dream car - a 2014 VW Jetta GLI with a 6 speed manual transmission. The sad news is that I had to sell my 2000 Jetta GL 2.O 5MT (dubbed 2.Slow). Most would probably say good riddance, but that car has been my benchmark of actually having a relationship with an object that moved me. More on that later because this is about the GLI.

The GLI is a wonderful car and I'm a happy owner so far. I'm not going to give out specs and a review here, but just my personal observation in my application. I use this car to commute to work, shuttle the family around, and run errands. It’s fast and I really like driving it. I look for any excuse to get out and drive. My wife is already on to me on that. She’s also on my case about the speeding ticket I already got a month after owning it.

What can I say, it has almost twice the power as my previous ride. It accelerates faster, goes through corners tighter, has a colder AC, and a better radio than the one that wasn't working. I also hope that it will be worry-free for the next 5 years so I can spend more time with the family instead of fixing my car. Another plus is its nicer curb appeal versus my older Jetta that had peeling British Racing Green paint. I look more presentable riding this shiny Titanium Gray GLI than my MK4. I hope that I can also ponder giving non-family members a ride again in my car.

However, newer does not mean better than older. I've come to realize that I do miss the following things from my former ride:

1. Better throttle response (the GLI is drive-by-wire),
2. No turbo lag (the 2.Slow is normally aspirated),
3. Softer ride (15 inch vs 17 on the GLI), and
4. Not having to worry about possibly having the GLI’s eight intake valves cleaned of carbon deposits every 30k miles due to a direct injection system that VW should have remedied by including a port injection system in tandem to the DI one like they have in the same engine in Europe.

No. 3 I can remedy by changing the tires and rim diameter, but not 1 and 2. No 4, I’ll just have to use low SAPS certified oil and do an Italian Tune Up once in a while.

Simplicity is what I really miss from my MK4 Jetta. Sure it had an agricultural 2.0 liter engine, but it’s quick because of the proper mating to a somewhat close-ratio 5 speed gearbox. It’s a simple, low maintenance engine that gets a half quart of oil change every 1,000 miles. But, it likes to rev from down to 2,500 up to 5,200 RPM, and I don’t have to worry about carbon buildup on them four intake valves.

I might actually venture to say that at stop lights, the older Jetta might beat my GLI from 0 to 30. It’s quick, but not fast, which is ideal for urban traffic where I drive daily. The accelerator pedal is connected to the throttle body by a cable, not some electronic signal from an electronic pedal that’s filtered through the ECU. It was simple, quick, and a joy to drive.

The 2.Slow revs up to 5,200 RPM and is happy to get started from 2,500 RPM, its peak torque. The 2.0 TSI is almost double the power at 5,300 RPM with 210 horses and 207 lb/ft of torque reachable at a low 1,700 RPM. However, the occasional lag from either the turbo or DBW gas pedal lets it down. It’s unpredictable to launch and power through corners at times. The 2.Slow was more predictable and connected to the driver, which to me is an important part of driving.

Before buying the GLI, I did consider a 2015 or 2014 Jetta S 2.0 with the independent rear suspension and read disc brakes missing from prior versions of the same generation. Yes, it has the same 115HP and 125 lb/ft of torque engine as my 2000 Jetta. A lot of journalists and Vortex forum members are quick to knock it down saying VW could have opted for a better engine on their base model. Hey, VW is also in the business to sell cars so they use the base models to get people in so that they can upsell to a better car. They got me with the GLI right?

Well, those naysayers and critics of this new generation Jetta with an antiquated engine were right. In fact, I would even say that they should have called this engine the "2.Slow-er" because it is and here’s why I think so.

I test drove the 5 speed manual version of a 2015 Jetta S hoping and praying that it’s the same feel as my former MK4. I was thinking that I would just upgrade to a newer version, kinda like upgrading from Vista to Windows 7. It had a newer look, newer interior, colder AC, and bigger cabin space. To my surprise, this MK6 Jetta is actually lighter than my MK4 Jetta at 2,850 vs 3,000 lbs. With the weight loss alone I expected the car to be quicker, faster, and handle better.

Unfortunately, my expectations were shattered during the test drive. The MK6 was slower going uphill on the same highway my MK4 went. It lacked power at the bottom end, and the throttle was harder to rev-match when downshifting. Afterwards, I looked into it by comparing the spec sheets and I found out that:

1. VW widened the gear ratios on the 5 speed gearbox,
2. It’s using drive-by-wire throttle.

I guess VW wanted better fuel efficiency numbers that’s why the gearbox had a taller fifth gear. On the MK4, I’d be going 70 MPH at 3,200 RPM on fifth. On the MK6, I’d be doing that on fourth. The problem is that because of the wider gear ratio, the power band on the MK6 changed. Max torque is now at 4,000 RPM even though maximum HP of 115 is still at 5,200 RPM. The power band got narrower. This means that each time you downshifted from 5,200 RPM and lost 50% to 67% of your RPM, you were below the 4,000 RPM max torque. The MK4 I had was happy to be shifted up a gear at 4,000 RPM because it could handle the change above 2,500 RPM. This coupled by an unpredictable DBW gas pedal really put me off the idea that of my 2.Slow upgrade. Hence I got the GLI.

Now, I’m not complaining about my GLI and I know that I will learn to eventually adapt to its disconnected throttle response in time. It’s just that this transition to something more modern, newer, and more powerful does not always come without compromises. I do feel at times that I lost some things that I liked about driving by giving up my MK4 Jetta.

But, hey I've got my dream car, it's a GLI, and I can live with it.
 
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Simplicity and ease of maintenance are why a lot of people hang on to old cars. Carbon buildup on intake valves would really rub me the wrong way. One of the things I like about my Dart is that it's not direct injection. I agree on the 17 inch wheels riding harder - totally unnecessary on a small car but I guess it improves handling at the limit and I'm sure it quickens steering response with less sidewall to flex. Nice write up on the VW.
 
That's a great (and informative) write up.
I thought that VW was now using a 1.8T as their 'base' engine but maybe that is just for the Golf.

I find VWs to be high maintenance vehicles and have crossed them off my shopping list for this reason.

PS: It seems that a lot of 'new and improved' things are not any better (and often are worse) than what they replaced....One example is Yahoo mail...they took a great product and ruined it in the name of 'Progress'...
 
Originally Posted By: gregoron
I also hope that it will be worry-free for the next 5 years


MxwbrPM.gif
 
gregoron, i can tell you that i also once owned an 8V crossflow VW, but in "GTi" guise for 170k miles. Like you, i really enjoyed that car and miss it to this day. Something about that dinosaur of an engine that was ingratiating, simple and i dare say it...fun.

I say this having also owned various VR6 and one G60 VDub.
 
Thanks for the writeup. I always find it ironic how GDI is a fuel saving measure, yet its owners are pressured into Italian tuneups or generally harder driving, which aren't good on fuel, in an attempt to keep things running well. I guess that's what happens when fuel economy is really a paper target.
 
If you love the 2.slow you could have just bought a new Jetta S. They brought back the 2.0 when they released the cheapened mk6 Jetta.

Next year they're getting rid of the 2.0 again and replacing it with a 1.4 turbo.

I'm mostly joking. I test drove a Jetta S with it and was very unimpressed, and I don't even hate the 2.0. We had one in my wife's Beetle, but it's not up to snuff with current standards
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Thanks for the writeup. I always find it ironic how GDI is a fuel saving measure, yet its owners are pressured into Italian tuneups or generally harder driving, which aren't good on fuel, in an attempt to keep things running well. I guess that's what happens when fuel economy is really a paper target.


EXCELLENT point. Which is why i just drive normally now. I am done overthinking this stuff when my neighbors all have D.I., use bulk conventional oil, and always seem to be 1000 miles over their oci requirements....with ZERO issues. A couple of which are over 100K miles. Who's the dummy on this block.
happy2.gif
 
Nice post. I've had a number of manual transmissions, and one that I had was also paired with a DBW set up. I think a lot of the "art" of the stick shift is lost in (electronic) translation with DBW. You lose the "feel" of the engine without a direct link to the engine compartment, as minor a point as that may seem in words.

My '07 Corolla took some getting used to before I was consistently good at it. And even then, I'd say I was only about 90% consistent with it. I have no problems at all with DBW in concept, and I have no problems with DBW in practice with an automatic transmission. Just press and go. But DBW with a stick is harder to perfect, both for the manufacturer and for the driver.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Nice post. I've had a number of manual transmissions, and one that I had was also paired with a DBW set up. I think a lot of the "art" of the stick shift is lost in (electronic) translation with DBW. You lose the "feel" of the engine without a direct link to the engine compartment, as minor a point as that may seem in words.

My '07 Corolla took some getting used to before I was consistently good at it. And even then, I'd say I was only about 90% consistent with it. I have no problems at all with DBW in concept, and I have no problems with DBW in practice with an automatic transmission. Just press and go. But DBW with a stick is harder to perfect, both for the manufacturer and for the driver.

Also I found with the Focus, that the engine mount restricting torsion was too soft and had too much play, so any mismatch in revs could result in the engine rocking back and forth excessively which made the shift feel "bad". A solid mount fixed that and the car is more fun to drive as you don't have to get the rev matching perfect anymore on the downshifts.
On the focus the mount is the same as on the automatic trans for which I'm sure it was tuned to mush to avoid engine vibrations while in D with AC on.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Nice post. I've had a number of manual transmissions, and one that I had was also paired with a DBW set up. I think a lot of the "art" of the stick shift is lost in (electronic) translation with DBW. You lose the "feel" of the engine without a direct link to the engine compartment, as minor a point as that may seem in words.


I agree, I noticed that a while ago. That is why today I do not mind going auto, although I still prefer a stick if only because I can avoid unnecessary shifting. But most econoboxes I have driven of late just do not really appeal to me.
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Nice post. I've had a number of manual transmissions, and one that I had was also paired with a DBW set up. I think a lot of the "art" of the stick shift is lost in (electronic) translation with DBW. You lose the "feel" of the engine without a direct link to the engine compartment, as minor a point as that may seem in words.

On top of that, you have some car makers like BMW that install evil contraptions like CDV (clutch delay valve) on their manual cars. It is meant to protect the drivetrain from an inexperienced operator, but it results in futher disconnect between the driver and the engine. Thankfully, CDV can be easily removed, at least on older cars like mine. Not sure about the new ones.

From a cost perspective, a manual BMW is no longer cheaper than an auto one, and the auto boxes in new BMWs are really slick and responsive. I am seriously starting to even entertain the thought of getting an automatic one, but I'm not quite there yet...
 
Glad, you are liking it.

I had an '86 GLI, bought new, and it had carbon build up problems back then.

It was the second worst car I've ever owned. A crying shame , as it was enjoyable to drive - when it ran. When the radio broke between the time I bought it, and the time I drove it off the lot, I should have known what I was in for .....
 
Originally Posted By: bigt61
Simplicity and ease of maintenance are why a lot of people hang on to old cars. Carbon buildup on intake valves would really rub me the wrong way. One of the things I like about my Dart is that it's not direct injection. I agree on the 17 inch wheels riding harder - totally unnecessary on a small car but I guess it improves handling at the limit and I'm sure it quickens steering response with less sidewall to flex. Nice write up on the VW.


Thanks. I'm entertaining the thought of replacing my rims and tires with 16 inchers when the current ones wear out.
 
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: gregoron
I also hope that it will be worry-free for the next 5 years


MxwbrPM.gif



LOL. You got me!
 
Originally Posted By: gregoron
Thanks. I'm entertaining the thought of replacing my rims and tires with 16 inchers when the current ones wear out.

Are the roads in Hawaii that bad?

Here up north, with so many freeze-thaw cycles, our roads are terrible, so you do suffer with low profile tires, but when I lived in the south, it really wasn't that much of an issue.

With that said, I do kind of agree that 225/45/17 tires on a Jetta are a bit of an overkill. Sounds like you'd be happier with 205/55/16.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Thanks for the writeup. I always find it ironic how GDI is a fuel saving measure, yet its owners are pressured into Italian tuneups or generally harder driving, which aren't good on fuel, in an attempt to keep things running well. I guess that's what happens when fuel economy is really a paper target.


I agree. To European applications, GDI would work better as they have more chances to really open up their cars on the highway and burn off those carbons. But with the richer fuel mix calibration and lower RPM use in urban driving here in the US, it might pose a problem to engine longevity.

Still, I don't mind doing an occasional high RPM (not necessarily high speed) drive as it's actually part of my 20 minute commute. Heck if my old MK4 Jetta can handle 3200 RPM going 70 MPH in fifth gear, I think my GLI can do the same thing in fourth. I don't think the engine will explode.
 
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Originally Posted By: gregoron

Still, I don't mind doing an occasional high RPM (not necessarily high speed) drive as it's actually part of my 20 minute commute. Heck if my old MK4 Jetta can handle 3200 RPM going 70 MPH in fifth gear, I think my GLI can do the same thing in fourth. I don't think the engine will explode.

I don't think it's as much about high RPM as it is about high load which is achieved through strong acceleration, regardless of RPMs.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: gregoron
Thanks. I'm entertaining the thought of replacing my rims and tires with 16 inchers when the current ones wear out.

Are the roads in Hawaii that bad?

Here up north, with so many freeze-thaw cycles, our roads are terrible, so you do suffer with low profile tires, but when I lived in the south, it really wasn't that much of an issue.

With that said, I do kind of agree that 225/45/17 tires on a Jetta are a bit of an overkill. Sounds like you'd be happier with 205/55/16.


Not so much all of Hawaii, but just in Honolulu. They have this rail construction going on and they won't repave the roads until it's done. Yes, there are lots of potholes and uneven expansion joints. It's really more suitable for trucks and SUVs now. Funny though that I've only noticed wheel hop on the uneven concrete highways after driving my GLI. I never noticed it on the older Jetta with the 15 inch steelies. I even experimented with lowering tire pressure to the minimum allowed to no avail.
 
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