Actually it depends on if you are a private vs public figure feel free to look this up. (My Journalism law class discussed many Similar cases.) If you are a public figure you have to prove malice or intent. Private figures you dont I would highly suggest looking this up. You can call me a name sure, you aren't a very well known public ceo that can make a comment and increase or tank a stock. Elon Musk is significantly better known, and what he says can actually impact you. Re read my UCONN comment from earlier if this doesn't wake you up nothing will. People of power can uplift or destroy someone's reputation based on their words and or actions. I worked for a a hotel for seven years. The owner was there during the day and occasionally weekends to check up on things. He was a prominent voting member on local hotel board. If he didn't like you, or you rubbed him the wrong way you wouldn't get any job at any hotel in town. Whether that is ok or ethical is a different story but this happens way more than you think. Case #2. CBS called it the "Dan" rule. All Dan Rather had to do was motion for you to be out and your office was cleaned out no questions asked.
Musk Says Tesla ‘Dug Our Own Grave’ With The Cybertruck
- Thread starter 97prizm
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Gm guidance on evs has been terrible. They set many goals and have yet to achieve many.
I do trust some of their ICE targets, as that is their bread and butter.
My opinion of Musk is simple, they say there is a fine line between genius and madness, he has one foot on both sides of the line at all times.
I don't think you've said something I've agreed with more than this. We wouldn't get what he has to offer if we didn't get all of it.
As they say, the one who calls his opponent a Nazi has lost the argument.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Musk allowed various nao-nazi, right wing etc. groups to use X for their purposes. The whole debacle over Disney, UAL, Wal Mart etc. is around neo-nazi groups. He owns the company, accountability rests with him! Add to that his anti-semitic comments, previous comments about various ethnic and religious groups etc.
I personally would not spend a dime on any of his products precisely for that reason, whatever that product is.
That's why I would not be upset to see him replaced as CEO of Tesla. The products are good enough I'd keep buying them. Henry Ford was a Nazi sympathizer and plenty of people still buy those daily too.
That said if anyone wants to hear more from Jason Cammisa I recommend checking out his latest Carmudgeon Show podcast. He explains the lead up to his video and his thoughts through the process. I think it was even more telling than the video itself and is definitely worth the listen. He didn't want to like the truck.
Thank you, I was not aware of any of that.
However, (most) censorship scares me - I'd rather see bad ideas (racism, sexism, holocaust-denial) countered by good ideas.
And the problem is always who decides what to censor?
Who is Marilyn?
I'm with you. Let people show how bad they are if that's what comes out. Censorship isn't something I like to support. There's got to be a bit of a line though. The problem isn't with censorship itself, it's that the platforms we have because of technology can bolster certain ideas. Censorship has really only come about because we're so connected that we can converse and exchange ideas with people we've never met. This site along with many are an excellent example. 50 years ago none of us would be even having this conversation in the capacity we are having it now.
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edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Not the same!
Nazism has deep roots in 1920's and 1930's US. However, the events of WWII showed the consequences of such ideology.
Ford played as we all know huge role in defeating nazism in WWII, so not sure we can take against Ford the fact that Henry was a sympathizer long before WWII.
He owns a company that has a huge influence, and besides issues he created for various dissidents etc. he is actively encouraging various neo-nazi groups to use it. That was an issue behind major companies pulling out.
GON
$150 Site Donor 2025
Some observations suggest that Musk truly loves the US constitution and the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness it can enable for every resident of the USA- regardless of their background, ethnicity, or political affiliation.
Unlike many of his peer billionaires that feel the need to fly private jets to a gathering to foundationally direct what vehicles Americans can own, and what food Americans can eat- Musk appears to feel an implied responsibility to use his resources to protect the American way of life that the founding fathers envisioned.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
What censorship? Who censors Musk? Same as Musk claims he has a right to do whatever he wants, so does Disney or UAL. They have a right to decide whether they want or do not want to spend money at X. There is a difference between free speech and responsible speech. If you are promoting violence, targeting certain groups, and allowing groups who promote violence, you are walking fine line between legal and illegal. Constitution is a two way street. As much as Musk yells at everyone about how he has right to allow everyone to use X for whatever (and let's not forget various non-state actors supported by Russia, Iran etc., or state actors like GRU, FSB) he is really mad when others remind him that they have same rights, and they just walk away.
The real problem is that he turned a company that was worth $22 billion, and paid $44 bln, into a company that is MAYBE worth $6bln, maybe. And that problem is catching up with him.
No one censors Musk. He owns the platform himself. I think it was implied at least from how I read it that he has the ability to censor and he chose to let these voices still speak that are considered violent and divisive. Again just how I understood it. I'm not an X or Twitter user to see what was being referenced.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
It is far more complex issue than voices. What if “voice” is group sponsored by GRU? They are imminent threat to the US security and the US constitution doesn’t extend to some guy in the suburbs of St. Petersburg. What if domestic group is calling for elimination of religious groups? Now they are engaged in threats. There is no such thing as absolute freedom of speech. Go out to police station and threaten first cop with murder. Let us know what happened, in a few years.
The real problem is that same groups that are identified as foreign agents are created this issue to sow distrust and confusion (which is really not hard to do among certain population).
For Musk problem is first and foremost financial. This was already an issue with UAL when UAL pulled out bcs. their ads popped in threads posted by those groups. They left X, and Musk ignored it. However, things really escalated few weeks back when same happened to Disney and they abruptly pulled out. Then it just happened that Musk was commenting on thread by known anti-semite nad neo-nazi basically agreeing with him. Than slew of whatever of serious companies left, pulled out. In an interview he wanted to be Steve Jobs. Problem is, Musk doesn’t have ANY leverage over these companies. Then his true nature comes out, and here we are.
Sorry, forgot to add last name. Monroe.
I don't have to really read up on anything. The jury heard it first hand so I guess your journalism law class will use this as an example since Musk is so well known. Actually I am sure it will be used in a class such as that so people dont mix up an argument between two people vs malice to ruin a reputation. So this will be the case "looked up" in future classes.
Elon won the case. It's so cut and dry I wonder if ANYONE read the actual exchange between the two. The law in the USA ruled in favor of Musk but we continue the debate for some reason (except me, Im done
). Then of course others will be slamming the fact that rich people get away with anything (which was said in here). Once again. I use the example of the person with the Corolla slighting his next door neighbor because the next door neighbor owns a $100,000 pick up. It's not because the rich get away with everything come to think of it, it's a malicious statement! *LOL*If anything, the jury will most times rule in favor of the less affluent regarding civil cases.
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Yes this been terrible and so has every other car manufacturer on EVs. Actually the worst has been some of Tesla's own statements. Stating they need to keep growing 50% per year, but.... they are not, how about 26%.
Agree Ice is GM bread and butter and thank god its not too late and they have now realized that. Amazing how big corporations get caught up in the media fantasy along with the rest of the country.
Only time will tell what the EV threshold is and to me anyway, it's great that they are selling vehicles almost as fast as they can make them. This to me has always been the huge advantage. While the USA was going off (including GM) on how EVs were going to take over the future, one thing happened. The consumer isnt quite in agreement on the EV subject.
If things arent bad enough in the EV sector, just think, really think where the EV industry would be if it wasnt for giving away $7,500 per vehicle. That is going to ultimately play into the hands of GM too as it expects and has the money to qualify a lot of their EV car models by 2025. They are turning out profits by the boatload and have the money to sink into whatever share of the EV market they want.
Im not saying EVs are dead, they will co-exist with ICE vehicles, as I said for years in here? They are just cars.
Full disclosure, I have a significant (for me) short term holding in GM, I couldn't pass it up at $29 and change. GM 4 times earnings, Tesla 70 times earnings. The math was simple to me for the short term. I guess I will see if I am right, I am not making predictions, just the reason for the short term trade. For me personally I bought the stock approx. 6 weeks ago and have a 10% unrealized return on my money.
I could sell today, next week, next month or next year whenever I think the short term return on the money starts to look risky to me. Generally the automotive industry is a cycle just like any industry. I cant help feel this might be short lived cycle if the economy continues to slow but I know nothing and try my best to go with the flow and not lose money.
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edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Case might be used, but not for reasons you think.I don't have to really read up on anything. The jury heard it first hand so I guess your journalism law class will use this as an example since Musk is so well known. Actually I am sure it will be used in a class such as that so people dont mix up an argument between two people vs malice to ruin a reputation. So this will be the case "looked up" in future classes.
Elon won the case. It's so cut and dry I wonder if ANYONE read the actual exchange between the two. The law in the USA ruled in favor of Musk but we continue the debate for some reason (except me, Im done
If anything, the jury will most times rule in favor of the less affluent regarding civil cases.
He managed to use excuse from his language. Considering all his tamper tantrum regarding that case where he was willing to sacrifice 13 lives for his PR stunt, highly doubt that was the case. His later behavior just confirms that.
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